Before you flame me, i get that it's a great card. What i don't get is why it's considered far and away the best 6 drop in the game. I'm thinking about replacing her with Cairne in several of my decks.
More often than not when i play her:
1) She gets killed by Loatheb or Thaurissan or Ancient of Lore and I MC nothing.
2) I'm playing an aggro deck or Paladin, it takes 2 turns for Sylvanus to die and I MC a 2 drop or Silver Hand Recruit.
I feel like Cairne (or even sky golem I just don't always like the RNG) just puts in more work. In scenario 1 on my tempo mage for example, Cairne + hero token kills Loatheb/ET, and I still have a 4/5 on the board.
1) 4 attacke vs 5 attack is actually a really important difference. ESPECIALLY in your examples. Cairne with NOT trade (in one turn) with Loatheb or Taurissan or Ancient of Lore. Even worse, he doesn't clear the first phase of sludge belcher. They will all live to see another day. So, even though Sylvanus didn't get to activate her ability, she did clear those minions. That is important to note. (this is a bit different with Piloted Sky Golem though...)
2) When Sylvanus does hit, she can win games from behind. Cairne is more of a ... keep continual soft pressure on.
3) Often people just ignore Cairne, and you don't get around to getting the benefit of his second body (or he gets silenced) by the time the game is over - so you've paid 6 mana for a 4/5
4) Sometimes you DON'T see what Sylvanus is doing to your opponent. They are forced to make really strange plays sometimes, but you don't see it. For example, run their existing 4/5 minion into Sylvanus, then cast a spell to finish her off (2 for 1 trade) when their plan was actually to play Kel Thuzad.
My best advice to you is to just try him out. It's going to depend on what you are trying to accomplish with your deck. A token oriented or buff oriented deck would probably work better with Cairne then sylvanus. You will probably find yourself disappointed by him though...
Your not crazy, but you could always look at it this way.
1) Sylvanas can kill Loatheb, Thaurissan and Ancient of Lore and possibly steal something else
2) If you are playing an aggro deck or paladin, even in the worst case where you steal a 1/1 recruit, you had a 6 mana 5/5 that killed a 1/1 and summoned a 1/1 on deathrattle.
When Sylvanas steals a minion, the value of that steal can almost be looked at like double the mana cost of the stolen minion, because a steal counts as a kill and a summon simultaneously.
Sometimes, Sylvanas gains a lot of hidden value as well. Especially against control and midgame decks. If you have played Sylvanas and you notice your opponent didn't play Dr Boom on 7 mana, or Tyrion Fordring on 8 mana, and instead they made a weird and weak play, your Sylvanas may have just gotten you hidden value as they are playing around her deathrattle.
Sylvanas is also really good against a board with 2 or more medium sized threats, especially when you are behind on the board. It is especially strong against classes like druid who usually have 1 or 2 medium threats on the board by turn 6.
Against aggro, it can be underwhelming, but you have 29 other cards in your deck so let your anti-aggro cards do most of the work in that matchup, and just drop sylvanas as a decent 5/5 if you have no better play.
Sounds like you're not playing her optimally. If they have a single minion in play with less than 6 health (i.e. Thaurissan, Loatheb, Ancient of Lore), you should not play Sylvanas unless nothing else you can play will threaten their board—and in that case, you should be happy that, despite being in a desperate situation, you got a one-for-one trade.
Likewise, you don't want to play her into an empty board unless you have no other choice. Ideal situations to play her: 1) The opponent has two or more mid-size sized minions and will have to trade them both/all into Sylvanas to avoid her deathrattle. 2) The opponent's minions have some combination of 5+ attack and 6+ health that makes it impossible for them to avoid her deathrattle. 3) The opponent has a deathrattle minion in play that spawns another minion (Shredder, Sky Golem, Cairne, etc.). Oldest deathrattle pops first, so even if there's a full board clear, Sylvanas will steal the deathrattle guy.
She is not effective against aggro, though, that's true—but few 6-drops are.
Many HS-Matchs go the same way: One Player gets an Advantage early Game, the other tries to catch up but cant do it. At the End the Player who got the early Advantage often wins.
In HS i feel there is a lack of opportunities for comebacks when you are behind on the board. So Players would Play almost every Card that enables them to trade better than 1/1 and comeback. Sylvanas is such a Card. Dr. Boom is good for the same reason. he can often trade 2/1, sometimes even 3/1, so you can comeback from a weak or slow early game against a more agressive Opponent.
Note that the expansions have been putting a lot of cards that serve to do just that btw. Healbot to give more time to recover. Dr. Boom being Dr Boom. Rag hitting on the same turn. Now with Emperor speeding up play and Dragon mechanics that turn otherwise bad starts into opportunities (that's the point to them. Normally having 8-9 mana minions risks them showing eraly game and screwing you over. Now they serve to power your deck) more comeback cards are showing up.
In fact, that's WHY Dr Boom shows up so blasted much. He's...ok in an empty board. A single BGH can clean up a Dr. Boom pretty effectively if both sides are empty. Boom's real power is in the comeback. You have the board full of minions, They drop a Boom. You go "#W$U(*#$(#" since you can't just use your tempo to eliminate him and not suffer for it.
That they are midrange options (4-7 mana) keeps the "aggro/midrange/control" mindset. To fight against aggro, you have tools, but at the cost of Control features. To deal with midrange options you have to slow your deck down. Thus why mech mage relies on Archmage and Blastmage so much and right now the only really aggro deck we have in the meta is face hunter (who's growling about mill rogue right now).
That's what we are looking for in HS balance and the expansions are showing that this is the goal being aimed at.
And the constant demands to nerf counter cards just sounds so much more painful now.
well lets be honest the games were sylvanas gave insane value are less than 5%.i play her cause she has the ability to confuse your opponent and force him to play around her effect. vs aggro she is useless cause before you get the effect 2 or even 3 rounds have to pass for the reason that opponents minions dont have high attack and they maybe even have a small taunt. there are cases in which cairne would be a LOT better. for example when is your turn 6 and the board is empty dropping cairne is a way stronger move than dropping sylvanas. also she has a few nice combos with some other cards as mentioned which cairne doesnt. but imo she is overrated, emperor for example is way better than sylvanas cause he brings instant value and he keeps getting you value as long as he stays on the board.i believe that decks which run only 1 six drop they will replace sylvanas with emperor. now if you DONT have sylvanas and you have cairne and emperor i would play those two and i wouldnt craft sylvanas. cairne is underrated while sylvanas is overrated. the problem with cairne after FULL BRM is that many powercreeps will get introduce (look at hungry dragon 5/6 at 4 mana and that shaman minion a possible 6/6 or 7/6 at 4 mana too) so cairne cant trade equally with them. yeah he will spawn you a 4/5 after he dies, but i consider dropping cairne a weak move after BRM when your opponents 4 and 5 round is so strong. hungry dragon and fireguard destroyer are going to be a pain in the ass to deal with cause its so hard to deal 6 damage on 4 round only with trading and our usual removal (except hard removal). so after BRM if you ask me i would play 1 emperor and 1 sylvanas or piloted sky golem
Sylvanas has an invisible taunt and can push your opponent to use hard removals or silence. Cairne is good before the expansions but if it was silenced it is just a simple 6-mana Chillwind Yeti. Even if Sylvanas gets silenced it still has a body on the board and most of time time it trades with at least 2 enemy minions.
Sylvannnnusss Whindracer is one of those beautiful rare legendaries that is both fun and super powerful. And she's midrange. It's a can't lose situation.
Plus every time I use a baron rivendare and steal TWO things, i literally have to go to the doctor for priaprism.
Before you flame me, i get that it's a great card. What i don't get is why it's considered far and away the best 6 drop in the game. I'm thinking about replacing her with Cairne in several of my decks.
More often than not when i play her:
1) She gets killed by Loatheb or Thaurissan or Ancient of Lore and I MC nothing.
2) I'm playing an aggro deck or Paladin, it takes 2 turns for Sylvanus to die and I MC a 2 drop or Silver Hand Recruit.
I feel like Cairne (or even sky golem I just don't always like the RNG) just puts in more work. In scenario 1 on my tempo mage for example, Cairne + hero token kills Loatheb/ET, and I still have a 4/5 on the board.
Am I crazy?! Someone talk some sense into me.
1) 4 attacke vs 5 attack is actually a really important difference. ESPECIALLY in your examples. Cairne with NOT trade (in one turn) with Loatheb or Taurissan or Ancient of Lore. Even worse, he doesn't clear the first phase of sludge belcher. They will all live to see another day. So, even though Sylvanus didn't get to activate her ability, she did clear those minions. That is important to note. (this is a bit different with Piloted Sky Golem though...)
2) When Sylvanus does hit, she can win games from behind. Cairne is more of a ... keep continual soft pressure on.
3) Often people just ignore Cairne, and you don't get around to getting the benefit of his second body (or he gets silenced) by the time the game is over - so you've paid 6 mana for a 4/5
4) Sometimes you DON'T see what Sylvanus is doing to your opponent. They are forced to make really strange plays sometimes, but you don't see it. For example, run their existing 4/5 minion into Sylvanus, then cast a spell to finish her off (2 for 1 trade) when their plan was actually to play Kel Thuzad.
My best advice to you is to just try him out. It's going to depend on what you are trying to accomplish with your deck. A token oriented or buff oriented deck would probably work better with Cairne then sylvanus. You will probably find yourself disappointed by him though...
Your not crazy, but you could always look at it this way.
1) Sylvanas can kill Loatheb, Thaurissan and Ancient of Lore and possibly steal something else
2) If you are playing an aggro deck or paladin, even in the worst case where you steal a 1/1 recruit, you had a 6 mana 5/5 that killed a 1/1 and summoned a 1/1 on deathrattle.
When Sylvanas steals a minion, the value of that steal can almost be looked at like double the mana cost of the stolen minion, because a steal counts as a kill and a summon simultaneously.
Sometimes, Sylvanas gains a lot of hidden value as well. Especially against control and midgame decks. If you have played Sylvanas and you notice your opponent didn't play Dr Boom on 7 mana, or Tyrion Fordring on 8 mana, and instead they made a weird and weak play, your Sylvanas may have just gotten you hidden value as they are playing around her deathrattle.
Sylvanas is also really good against a board with 2 or more medium sized threats, especially when you are behind on the board. It is especially strong against classes like druid who usually have 1 or 2 medium threats on the board by turn 6.
Against aggro, it can be underwhelming, but you have 29 other cards in your deck so let your anti-aggro cards do most of the work in that matchup, and just drop sylvanas as a decent 5/5 if you have no better play.
Kezan Tinkerer - http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/fan-creations/45270-weekly-design-competition-19-submission-thread?comment=333
slyvanas puts alot of pressure for your opponent, she can be considered bait for removal and ruin the enemy's plan
Sounds like you're not playing her optimally. If they have a single minion in play with less than 6 health (i.e. Thaurissan, Loatheb, Ancient of Lore), you should not play Sylvanas unless nothing else you can play will threaten their board—and in that case, you should be happy that, despite being in a desperate situation, you got a one-for-one trade.
Likewise, you don't want to play her into an empty board unless you have no other choice. Ideal situations to play her: 1) The opponent has two or more mid-size sized minions and will have to trade them both/all into Sylvanas to avoid her deathrattle. 2) The opponent's minions have some combination of 5+ attack and 6+ health that makes it impossible for them to avoid her deathrattle. 3) The opponent has a deathrattle minion in play that spawns another minion (Shredder, Sky Golem, Cairne, etc.). Oldest deathrattle pops first, so even if there's a full board clear, Sylvanas will steal the deathrattle guy.
She is not effective against aggro, though, that's true—but few 6-drops are.
All fair points, she definitely has "hidden value" that knocks opponents off of their gameplan.
I'll keep tinkering.
And at the very least she can kill the front end of a Sludge Belcher, which is the main reason few people use Cairne.
Sylvanas puts a ton of pressure on the board and can really mess up someone's plans.
Note that the expansions have been putting a lot of cards that serve to do just that btw. Healbot to give more time to recover. Dr. Boom being Dr Boom. Rag hitting on the same turn. Now with Emperor speeding up play and Dragon mechanics that turn otherwise bad starts into opportunities (that's the point to them. Normally having 8-9 mana minions risks them showing eraly game and screwing you over. Now they serve to power your deck) more comeback cards are showing up.
In fact, that's WHY Dr Boom shows up so blasted much. He's...ok in an empty board. A single BGH can clean up a Dr. Boom pretty effectively if both sides are empty. Boom's real power is in the comeback. You have the board full of minions, They drop a Boom. You go "#W$U(*#$(#" since you can't just use your tempo to eliminate him and not suffer for it.
That they are midrange options (4-7 mana) keeps the "aggro/midrange/control" mindset. To fight against aggro, you have tools, but at the cost of Control features. To deal with midrange options you have to slow your deck down. Thus why mech mage relies on Archmage and Blastmage so much and right now the only really aggro deck we have in the meta is face hunter (who's growling about mill rogue right now).
That's what we are looking for in HS balance and the expansions are showing that this is the goal being aimed at.
And the constant demands to nerf counter cards just sounds so much more painful now.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
well lets be honest the games were sylvanas gave insane value are less than 5%.i play her cause she has the ability to confuse your opponent and force him to play around her effect. vs aggro she is useless cause before you get the effect 2 or even 3 rounds have to pass for the reason that opponents minions dont have high attack and they maybe even have a small taunt. there are cases in which cairne would be a LOT better. for example when is your turn 6 and the board is empty dropping cairne is a way stronger move than dropping sylvanas. also she has a few nice combos with some other cards as mentioned which cairne doesnt. but imo she is overrated, emperor for example is way better than sylvanas cause he brings instant value and he keeps getting you value as long as he stays on the board.i believe that decks which run only 1 six drop they will replace sylvanas with emperor. now if you DONT have sylvanas and you have cairne and emperor i would play those two and i wouldnt craft sylvanas. cairne is underrated while sylvanas is overrated. the problem with cairne after FULL BRM is that many powercreeps will get introduce (look at hungry dragon 5/6 at 4 mana and that shaman minion a possible 6/6 or 7/6 at 4 mana too) so cairne cant trade equally with them. yeah he will spawn you a 4/5 after he dies, but i consider dropping cairne a weak move after BRM when your opponents 4 and 5 round is so strong. hungry dragon and fireguard destroyer are going to be a pain in the ass to deal with cause its so hard to deal 6 damage on 4 round only with trading and our usual removal (except hard removal). so after BRM if you ask me i would play 1 emperor and 1 sylvanas or piloted sky golem
Spoken like a true veteran of Trade chat. I tip my hat to you, sir and/or madam.
Decks I'm using for Ranked play:
I've never seen any "Sylvanus" in any decks, to be honest...
God! How can't people spell Sylvannas right? It's annoying and makes you look dumb.
best post eva
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I irony here is that Sylvanas Windrunner has only one N in her name. Fail.
Kkk, that indeed proves my point!
Sylv ANUS.. hehe.. hehehehe..
Missing lethal since 1987.
Sylvanas has an invisible taunt and can push your opponent to use hard removals or silence. Cairne is good before the expansions but if it was silenced it is just a simple 6-mana Chillwind Yeti. Even if Sylvanas gets silenced it still has a body on the board and most of time time it trades with at least 2 enemy minions.
Sylvannnnusss Whindracer is one of those beautiful rare legendaries that is both fun and super powerful. And she's midrange. It's a can't lose situation.
Plus every time I use a baron rivendare and steal TWO things, i literally have to go to the doctor for priaprism.
i just would like to know why does sylvanas loses the s in portuguese. It's Sylvana.
Vc conhece alguma Sylvanas no Brasil? Silvana sim kkk
(Do you know any Sylvanas in Brazil? Silvana yes lol)