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'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
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Premiumjusr remove these cards and give the druid class some mediocre cards that are not really worth playing.
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
Making it 5 mana will block the FoN combo (unless the cost is reduced through mechanics) and still be good enough in case you manage to build board presence, which is still quite easy as a druid
+1 mana on both cards.
That said, I have hated this combo since, it first reared it's ugly head, I was the guy that was questioning the leeroy nerf before the force roar nerf.... So I would rather see them both just cost 10 mana for their current effects.
Nerf it to the ground.Then give druid decent spells and removal.Combo carried idiots to legend since beta.Play like shit,play sticky minions,win at turn 9 or 7 with inervate repeat.Just kill it.It's no wonder why druids dominate the legend ladder since beta.I have been legend 9 times.Since undertaker nerf 20%+ of legend ladder is druid no matter the meta with the exact same deck and with the exact same plays.Every game i lose against the druid is the same.If cant clear the board at round 7/9 and i lose even if my board is stronger and i am in 20+hp.
Force of nature is right now already a good tool for board clearing, but it is just much better for burst damage. So if instead of nerfing it, I would like them to make a complete reworked, so Force of nature just becomes an awesome board clear. That way druids might be able to play from behind, even without the combo.
Let's just change the whole concept of Charge. Just don't let minions with Charge attack Face the first turn they enter play. Unleash the Hounds would be the true AoE card Blizzard claims they wanted. The Druid "combo" would be far less effective but Savage Roar would still pack a punch. And Aggro would be taken down a notch making the whole game a lot more interesting and varied.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
I think you need to change roar. The problem is that you can never allow the Druid to have any board because a roar will just kill you. This will always remain a problem if it isn't changed. I think it should be modified to only affect beasts, or to not give 2 attack to your hero. That way you would need to have 3 minions ready to attack to get a 3 mana 6 damage combo.
FoN is fine, if not for the Charge effect that is bad for the game in general. I think you could add a 4th tree and take away the charge and death effects from them and you have something useful. 8/8 for 6, but very fragile against a board clear.
As far as I am concerned, for the health of the game Blizzard need to nerf this combo.
1. Many people have argued that this combo is not nerf worthy, because it compares unfavorably to other classes potentials for burst damage. At 9 mana and 2 cards for 14 damage this certainly seems true. It is little better than 8 mana for 12 damage from 2 mage's fireballs for instance.
This analysis though only skirts the issue.
The problem is not with the 14 damage, if FON SR could only ever deal 14 damage, there would be no issues with it whatsoever. The issue is that the damage potential rises as druids have a larger board. The counterplay to this is to never allow the druid to develoup a board. Thus the counterplay completely takes over and characterizes the match up. The combo controls the class rather than vice versa.
2. Druid have many more cards which synergise and further strengthen this combo, most notably innervate which allows for a double savage roar play, turning the base damage up to 22 (with minimal board presence this can amount to over 30 very easily). This leads to a highly frustrating loss for the opponent who was killed from high health, despite effectively managing their opponents board.
3. It is symptomatic of poor game design and fundamentally limits design space for blizzard. The combo characterizes the class to the extent that druid have received very limited amounts of other good cards. Druid players often complain that Blizzard cannot nerf FON SR as it is 'all they have'. The reason that it is 'all they have' is because it is so strong and Blizzard are afraid of giving the class anything else. By coupling a nerf of this combo, with a new set release giving druid powerful alternate options, the nerf could be handled effectively.
If anyone disagrees with any of my arguments, feel free to comment.
/thread sgtinvincible. Well done!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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Like I mentioned before:
The best balance to fix the combo druid is this small change:
(it's not a nerf, it will not kill the card, it's just more balanced and playable)
it will make the combo dealing 10 damage instead of 14 on a clean board, and it will add +1 attack for each minion on board instead of +2 attack for each = perfectly balanced for a 9 mana cost.
Then how is Blood Lust not an issue?
It is, blizzard will deal with Bloodlust too I think
the most probable nerf will be give your beasts +2 attack this turn. fon remains as it is cause it is not a problematic card. problem solved that way. combo seize to exist and beasts take a buff plus fon is not destroyed and even savage roar is not destroyed.....
if you look the card itself, the savage roar i mean, it makes sense to buff beasts since its the savage roar of the beast, even the card has a godamn lion or whatever that is on it.
changing the mana costs does nothing really.....even if you make savage roar at 4 mana for example it still limits design space as an aggressive druid can still use it to otk. (1 mana difference doesnt really matter). so that only prevents druid for having new good early minions. i believe my suggestion is the best and that will finally be the nerf on savage roar. i cant think how they will possibly nerf other cards but im quite sure about this one
change savage roar to minion instead of character but then it's too similar to bloodlust. Change it to +1/+1 for all characters and it's too close to Power of the Wild. Affecting beast is a very interesting idea.
Because shamans don't have the tools to synergise with bloodlust (force of nature, innervate and so forth) in addition it is rather (and necessarily) overcosted.
That is inconsistent with what i hear about people complaining about the combo.
You can still build up a super board with it. If you just put a bunch of sticky minions on the board, you can doubleBloodlust, and that's just as much damage. People say that you can use Savage Roar on a full board and it's op, but double Bloodlust is just as bad.