Hearthpwn

Im not saying he isnt played over 8 drops for that reason, that is not th point of my post. I am saying that if there were other 7 drops instead of him then it wouldnt be as much of an issue. And I wouldnt say he is played instead of 8 drops, he is played as a 7 drop in a deck that has no realiable 7 drops (which, other than druids, there are pretty much no other GOOD 7 drops). I dont think he takes place of 8 drops, you still see rag, grommash, KT, sneed's... He is just suplimental in a deck and can be played before an 8 drop which allows for a much more reliable turn 8 play due to them using their removal on boom. But I would never go as far as to say he replaces them.

Quote from HearthMasterJKROFLMAO »

 you still see rag, grommash, KT, sneed's... He is just suplimental in a deck and can be played before an 8 drop which allows for a much more reliable turn 8 play due to them using their removal on boom. But I would never go as far as to say he replaces them.

Ragnaros the Firelord is hardly played, to the point where there's a thread asking why nobody plays him. Sneed's Old Shredder has hardly been touched since GvG's release, because it's very slow.  Kel'Thuzad is practically a class legendary for druid. Grommash Hellscream is an actual class legendary and thus not up for comparison.

While this is probably not due to Dr. Boom (except for Ragnaros the Firelord), your statement was incorrect.

Quote from Mister_Smith »

Quote from Baldassar »

Quote from HearthMasterJKROFLMAO »

If they just added competitive 7 drops then it wouldnt be OP. right now it is just the ONLY good 7 drop (non class specific) so it seems a huge amount of play. if there were 3-4 good 7 drops then it would go down significantly

That's why Dr. Boom is played over 8-drops, because he's a fair 7-drop who just needs competition... right...

If there was a card named "Dr. Booms slightly smaller and less educated brother Mr. Boom" that was an 8mana 6/7 with the exact same battlecry people would play that over our Doctor. 

That's actually a pretty good nerf. Up the mana, drop the attack out of BGH range to compensate.

Quote from Mister_Smith »

If there was a card named "Dr. Booms slightly smaller and less educated brother Mr. Boom" that was an 8mana 6/7 with the exact same battlecry people would play that over our Doctor. 

So yes competition would directly result in Boom becoming less popular the difficult task is to create competition that manages to rival the card while not completely oushining it because that is the problem that so many people have with Dr. Boom, depending on the situation and the board state you are currently facing he is better than everything else in that mana range. 

But that is due to the fact and i can't stress this enough that he is just universally good with BGH being the only downside which is something you can't say about nearly every other legendary in the game. Still he can by no means considered to be strictly better than the other heavy hitters we've got since he just doesn't offer any utility outside of just dealing damage.

Yes, ofcourse competition would limit the use of Dr. Boom. Your example is a good one at that.
What i am saying however, is what most people overlook. It is the fact that Dr. Boom is just ridiculously over the curve, more so than any other card in this game.
If we had many cards of that level on the same mana cost, Hearthstone would turn into an "i drew more X-drops than you so i win" game, something certainly not fun.

If Dr. Boom was balanced for his cost and the only problem was the lack of competition, decks would not go out of their way to include him. We have all seen very aggressive decks that would otherwise have the top of their curve at 5 go all the way up to 7 because the card is just that good. We've seen him included in combo decks that would not otherwise consider running a simple 'value' minion, because he's  just too good to pass.
Both of those types of decks skip Sylvanas Windrunner, a high value minion at a lower mana cost. Why is that? Maybe because Sylvanas is not as unfair as Dr. Boom is.

I personally want to see the Doctor nerfed because i'm tired of making 29-card decks starting with an auto-include. I want to be able to choose to include him (or not to) rather than feel like i'm playing with a handicap if i leave him on the side.

Quote from Ballinglikeafool »

Quote from shawon0418 »

This is probably more of a buff than a nerf. If you already have a strong board presence, boom isn't the greatest thing to drop. This will allow it to hit the minions that you probably don't have, and ensure that it hits enemy minions as opposed to wasting the damage on the enemy hero.

Right now Dr. Boom is a great drop in almost every situation. With this you can't play this card mindlessly anymore. You have to consider current board and opponents removals before you play it. 

Anyway, it can be changed to 'random character'. Anything is better than 'random enemy'.

it's a 7 mana card that's virtually impossible to 1 for 1 for any card that costs 7 mana or less(yes,lightbomb will kill it,but you will still take up to 8 face damage,and the fact that you are using an AoE card to counter a single minion means something is wrong).

it's powerful enough to make BGH a must on basicly all non aggro decks,thereby making other 7+ attack cards weaker.

people use it on nearly every deck,from all but the completely all-in aggro decks to the most late game control ones.it's the one card in HS that you can consider at least OK for any deck,while being stellar on most.

it is rated the top arena card in heartharena.com

yes,i do think he needs a nerf.the best thing would be to reduce his life to 6 imo.the card would still be good enough,but it ould at least make it more possible to deal with without BGH.

Quote from Ballinglikeafool »

Quote from Sisuwolf »

Flame Leviathan isn't that bad. Kripp did a video on it. And while that doesn't mean it's right, I said the same things before, in the right deck, it makes sense. It is made for a spell heavy deck, that doesn't use that many small minions. The "Draw-cry" is great against aggro and if you have the right deck it should hurt their board more than yours.

The main problem is that there is 0 reason to play Flame Leviathan when Boom exists.

Kripp did another GvG Legendary video recently, this time Gallywix. And he has actually done a video on almost all the GvG class Legendary cards at this point. All of which are considered sub-par(aside from Mal'Ganis), with Kripp pointing out that they can be good, they just need a deck built around them.

Hmmmmm, wonder what is one of the main reasons preventing people from building decks around these cards? Lets check the cost, oh right, four of them cost 7 mana. Well there's 1 reason why four of them are never played: Boom.

Two more are 5 cost and two are 6 cost, but even these are similar to the 7 cost ones in that they provide unique powerful effects, but require a deck built to support their effect.

These class GvG Legendary cards are powerful, yet situational, strong, yet not OP, about the power level that Boom should have (actually Boom should be weaker as everyone knows that class cards are supposed to be stronger than neutrals).

People play Boom in decks that would have never played a 7 before. It's not about the 7 spot, its about being unconditionally better than every other card.

Some more than others but if Boom wasnt here, I know of atleast 9 cards that would be guaranteed to see more play:

• Troggzor the Earthinator
• Flame Leviathan
• Gahz'rilla
• Malorne
• Neptulon
• Iron Juggernaut
• Trade Prince Gallywix
• Bolvar Fordragon
• Vol'jin

Boom being gone wouldn't change the amount that these cards are played.

Troggzor is one of the cards that sounds good but really isn't. Troggzor isn't just outclassed by Dr. Boom, it's realistically outclassed by the 6 mana legendaries as well.

Flame Leviathan is jank.

Gahz'rilla would maybe see more play if it were neutral, but it doesn't fit hunters well enough to serve the same purpose Boom does.

Malorne's problem isn't just boom, it's every other expensive card in the game. Ancient of War and Ancient of Lore are both better seven drops, and for that matter, most of the 8/9 drops are better 7 drops for druid than this.

Neptulon would see play. Woohoo shaman?

Iron Juggernaut is jank.

There isn't a popularized rogue deck to make good use of Trade Prince, it has nothing to do with Boom.

Bolvar is jank.

Vol'jin already sees the same kind of play he would if Boom was gone. In fact, one less super common fatty in the meta gives me less reason to play Vol'jin.

You really think "Boom being gone wouldn't change the amount that these cards are played?"

Mister_Smith said nearly the same thing.

Did you not read my reply to him? (see below) It applies here too.

I certainly would play these cards if Boom was gone. And with more than 30 million players there are certainly others.

You really think that no one would play these cards if Boom got nerfed? There is even 1 person explicitly stating that he would. That would certainly be more play for these cards. The change might not be a lot if only one person started playing them, but it would still be a change that gets these cards more play.

With the millions of players in this game, even if only 1% of the players started playing these cards, that's something like 250,000 people playing these cards.

Come on man, use your brain. 2+2=4 If you really still think that a Boom nerf would not increase the amount of play these cards see, then you are either lying or increadibly dim-witted.

Quote from Sisuwolf »

So you are saying that if Boom was removed / nerfed, none of these cards would be tried? Noone would innovate and make new decks? What would everyone replace their Booms with?

Atleast initially there would be a huge shake up. And many of these cards would get play as people try to replace Boom or make new decks.

Some might even stick. We might even get a few new deck types that weren't tried or weren't viable due to Boom being better / warping the meta.

The meta would stay the same?

Certainly not, it would slow down. Making many of these cards "better."

You can't see one of these other GvG cards being good in a world where Boom doesn't exist?

He's a big part of the reason for the super speed/tempo meta we have. Things would change alot when the most powerful card in the game suddenly isn't.

Quote from Sisuwolf jump

You really think "Boom being gone wouldn't change the amount that these cards are played?"

Mister_Smith said nearly the same thing.

Did you not read my reply to him? (see below) It applies here too.

I certainly would play these cards if Boom was gone. And with more than 30 million players there are certainly others.

You really think that no one would play these cards if Boom got nerfed? There is even 1 person explicitly stating that he would. That would certainly be more play for these cards. The change might not be a lot if only one person started playing them, but it would still be a change that gets these cards more play.

With the millions of players in this game, even if only 1% of the players started playing these cards, that's something like 250,000 people playing these cards.

Come on man, use your brain. 2+2=4 If you really still think that a Boom nerf would not increase the amount of play these cards see, then you are either lying or increadibly dim-witted.

When I say "they wouldn't see more play" I don't mean literally NONE. I'm sure you can find a handful of people who would attempt to use some of these cards as a replacement, but it wouldn't be the correct decision. When I say "they wouldn't see more play", I'm saying that the uptick in use of cards like Bolvar would be so negligible that it wouldn't affect the constructed meta at all. I can only assume that Mr_Smith is also attempting to look at it from the vantage of what may objectively alter the competitive environment. 

I'll give you a 1% increase in the rates of play on these cards. In fact, make it 10%. That means very little if the 10% of players who are using these cards are at rank 20. 

If all the worlds boats suddenly sank, I'm sure you could find a small and ignorant minority of people who would attempt to swim across the ocean. Still, I think it's safe to say that sinking the worlds ships isn't going to make swimming more popular.

The intention in my original post should have been clear. For you to make some asinine statement like "at least 1 person would do it!" while in the same post calling me "increadibly dim-witted" is amusing. If you're a troll, gj sir.

Are they seriously taking Dr. Boom out of BGH range and dropping his damage to 6? 

Quote from DatJake jump

Are they seriously taking Dr. Boom out of BGH range and dropping his damage to 6? 

 Source?

Nerf dr boom to be a 7 mana 7/4 with two boom bots. As well as making bgh a 7 mana cost at least. Those two have completely took over and are played in like every deck, making them more inline with other cards will free up 3 card spaces. Right now you need those 3 cards to be competitive at all.

Quote from brantkin jump

Nerf dr boom to be a 7 mana 7/4 with two boom bots. As well as making bgh a 7 mana cost at least. Those two have completely took over and are played in like every deck, making them more inline with other cards will free up 3 card spaces. Right now you need those 3 cards to be competitive at all.

 What's the third one? And BGH is only played because of Dr. Boom. As soon as Dr. Boom is nerfed, and starts dropping off of decklists, there'll be no reason to run BGH.

Quote from Turn1Jarraxus jump

Quote from brantkin jump

Nerf dr boom to be a 7 mana 7/4 with two boom bots. As well as making bgh a 7 mana cost at least. Those two have completely took over and are played in like every deck, making them more inline with other cards will free up 3 card spaces. Right now you need those 3 cards to be competitive at all.

 What's the third one? And BGH is only played because of Dr. Boom. As soon as Dr. Boom is nerfed, and starts dropping off of decklists, there'll be no reason to run BGH.

 I'd like to know this as well. Just because anyone saying that BGH should be a 7 cost is clearly a uniquely-minded individual.

I dont see whats wrong with making him 8 mana and calling it a day.

Just take away all the rng from the game, make bombs do a flat amount of dmg to the attacker.

Quote from ThirdofHisName jump

Quote from Turn1Jarraxus jump

Quote from brantkin jump

Nerf dr boom to be a 7 mana 7/4 with two boom bots. As well as making bgh a 7 mana cost at least. Those two have completely took over and are played in like every deck, making them more inline with other cards will free up 3 card spaces. Right now you need those 3 cards to be competitive at all.

 What's the third one? And BGH is only played because of Dr. Boom. As soon as Dr. Boom is nerfed, and starts dropping off of decklists, there'll be no reason to run BGH.

 I'd like to know this as well. Just because anyone saying that BGH should be a 7 cost is clearly a uniquely-minded individual.

Quote from Turn1Jarraxus jump

Quote from brantkin jump

Nerf dr boom to be a 7 mana 7/4 with two boom bots. As well as making bgh a 7 mana cost at least. Those two have completely took over and are played in like every deck, making them more inline with other cards will free up 3 card spaces. Right now you need those 3 cards to be competitive at all.

 What's the third one? And BGH is only played because of Dr. Boom. As soon as Dr. Boom is nerfed, and starts dropping off of decklists, there'll be no reason to run BGH.

Well lets see, he takes out a target with 7 mana and also plays a card with decent starts which is a 4/2 he is also a removal like shadow word death. Which is also i think 3 mana, although his is limited it will still allow you to kill big targets and get a creature on board. But as it stands a target plays a big creature you play bgh kill his big creature and you can play another 3~4 mana card. And at that point you basically just win the game right then and there. he shouldn't be that big of a tempo swing to pretty much win the game on his own. Even dr.boom doesn't have that power. He also limits a ton of different decks so he controls the meta, he is ultimately a fun ruiner.

You could compare him to peacekeeper a 4/2 in my opinion is a lot better, he often gets 2 for ones for only 3 mana. And i must not be to uniquely mind in knowing how blatantly over powered he is, kripp has just made a video about it. Now if you excuse me i must try and find the guy that called me a rank 20 because i compared bgh to assassinate. Which kripp also did, and we all know how good kripp is, so my opinion can't be to far off a pros opinions.

Tl:Dr He is removal that kills manly 7+ mana cards and allow you to play another card along with him. And if nothing happens he is a 3 mana 4/2 than can trade with some other 3/4/5 mana + creatures like yeti's etc with the help of a hero power. So his stats are very good for his mana. Arguably the best stats for a 3 mana card.

I will link the video of kripp just in case i suck at explaining it to you maybe he can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhZBvxgu7C0

As a consistent legend player I see nothing wrong with Boom. At all. Needs no nerf whatsoever. People cry way too much these days.. But to each their own

It wasn't a staple, look at top tournament decks before Dr. Boom, very few ran BGH.  Only in druid was it seen often.  Now BGH is a must in many tournie decks due to Dr. Boom.  

BGH's ability is limited, it only kills 7+ attack creatures, and if it doesn't....4/2 is awful stats for 3 mana (due to distribution) so it is pretty much a dead card in your hand.  Comparing to Aldor Peacekeeper is silly, Aldor can be used on any creature...and has much better stats (3/3).   

Quote from Fluxty jump

Given Blizzard's history, nerfs almost always come to cards that are played in every deck. Dr. Boom is an extreme example of this. Whether you agree that he should be nerfed, I think there is a high probability he will be.

So, if a nerf for Dr. Boom comes along, what do you think it should be? Blizzard will probably just raise it to 8 mana.

My idea: Just make Dr. Boom summon the Boom Bots as a deathrattle, instead of battlecry.

I know I am quoting the OP which is several months old(Dec 2014) but the fact people are still talking about nerfing Dr. Boom to this day speaks volumes. There's well over 50 pages of posts in this thread which speaks to how OP Boom is and how many people want him nerfed. I am still hopeful he will get the nerf at or before the next expansion goes live which will be very soon now. I also thought he would be 8 mana, but the leaked images show him as a 5/5 body. Thread and pics on Boom nerf

I noticed my "Possible nerf of Dr. "Balanced" Boom from 7/7 to 5/5 body! Image proof!" thread got locked. In my defense, I had no idea they were fake and I did not make the pictures, but found them on the net. The thread got locked before I could explain that I posted more pictures, one of them is in Chinese. Also I provided a link to leaked GvG pictures that everyone said was fake but turned out to be real. If the Chinese picture is also fake, where can I find the original?

As for the two above replies, I really hope Boom isn't exempted from a nerf. No other card has gotten as many requests for a nerf as Boom. Whatever nerf Blizzard decides on will be an improvement, even 5/5 is weaker than 7/7. People don't understand that you are forced to autoinclude BGH in your deck because Boom is an autoinclude. Also Boom is so OP that he's still #1 played card in spite of BGH! I also agree on the boring deckbuilding and in the past we have seen nerfs to previous autoinclude cards.