They should make the Quest's final reward are not so powerful that makes everyone tries to build decks around the final reward..... i'd rather see the option to include the quest in the deck to accommodate deck building strategies or to help mid-game with the middle rewards.
They should get rid of rewarding "Rest of the game" effect, which are Mage - Shaman - Warlock - DH Exceptions are Warrior - Paladin, their final rewards are something that we can interact with, allow board presence, and don't involve mana cheating.
Other quests without that effect seem more balanced: Druid - Priest - Rogue
The thoughts I had are how to make the quests good in standard but not broken in standard or broken in wild. By spawning a random demon I think it might be better for the quest in standard for warlock but worst in wild it also makes a board state you can interact with. Like wise the mage is generating spells which means you are not going to go over the top with stupid amounts of damage that they cant interact with but instead more consistant damage so you can fight back with armor gain and tools. Both those have low rolls and some extreme high rolls.
the hunter quest is just broken in wild and bad in standard so changing the quest to be less relient on spells gives it more power in standard and less in wild.
The mage quest is just broken in both formats so. 71% standard win rate with best version of the deck over 220 games in comparison to the wild version which is lower at around 65% but wild is also a much faster format. It could lead to more control decks in wild as getting an extra card every turn when its not eating away your deck is so powerful. But its not broken. Your not getting insane amounts of uninteractable burst damage.
I think all 3 changes would done that way would keep all 3 quest playable in both formats it would tone down wild versions a little bit cause theres no uninteractable OTK from just the quest but same time they are still good enough to see play. I think it would actually make the warlock and hunter better in standard and it would be slight power decrease to mage but the quest would still be very very good. Like generating a fireball, ice barrier ect would be very strong there is a similar effect in duels that I piloted to 9+ wins in duels the pervious season very successfully using the treasure. I dont think people realize just how good discover a spell that started in your deck every turn is. Having stupid amounts of frost novas, fireballs, apexis blast turn after turn in a no minion deck ect. Its just not over the top burn. Your not going to nuke someones deck to death with burst damage. I mean you could even run 1 incenerate and through card advatage create an inevitable kill still with mage. while using generated cards to stall out the game.
the warlock one to summon demons has more high roll potential to be broken still however. Summoning 4 8/8 increase the cost of spell demons with taunt could litterly demolish a game on high roll but same time it can low roll and do almost nothing as there are some super low rolls as well. My bigger concern with summoning demons would it it could lead to some really crazy high rolls in standard.
Instead of discussing the way to fix the quest, OP simply designed a new card from his mind. And then blablabla placing here and there with current quest. Not even thematic, not even small change, not even considering the mechanic of the game. Lmao.
Also, I have to mention.. he doing long consecutive message, like this. It so annoying to see the message parted like this. How could it doesn't categorized as bumping and moderator doesn't come here to give warning is beyond me..
The cards are going to get nerfed either way blizzard already said so. But the idea is that those are better ideas than making the cards completely unplayable.
I dont think that would be a bad idea either @secludedMemory but it would make the card unplayable in wild and im pretty sure it would see alot less play in standard. It would still need to reflect fatigue damage to be playable in standard however if it only prevented prevented fatigue damage in standard. I don't think you would see it at all in standard if it reflected the damage it would at least still give a win condition from the quest. But I think even then it would see a lot less play hard to say because your getting no pay off for generating the damage. The card in standard isnt really bad. Warlock is more impacted as a wild card.
Overall I think the mage quest is the largest issue of the 3 across both formats. All 3 basically remove turn 10 from the game in wild 99/100 games. I know that some people think generating a spell in from the mage quest is to slow in standard but essentially your creating the same amount of damage just with less burst. Spell mage worked last expansion the same decks existed last expansion aggressively as they do this expansion. Control does not. Either way they are going to get nerfed those 3 options I think are better than nerfing cards that make the decks playable.
Many of the suggestions in this thread don't seem remotely realistic - they don't amount to "nerfs," so much as simply deleting the existing Quests from the game, and replacing them with different cards. The devs haven't done that since Warsong Commander.
It's more likely that Darkglare will be banned in Wild, and that some of the stages in the more powerful Questlines will be tweaked in order to make them slightly slower. Otherwise, the rewards themselves are now permanent features of the game . . .
The way to look at is you can nerf incanters flow it nerfs multiple decks. I would still play it at 3 mana I dont think it would be as impactful as nerfing the quest and you would affect multiple decks instead of just 1 of which some of those decks would be alot more impacted than the quest version of the deck. The quest while incanters flow increases its win rate by like 5% the quest would still oppress control decks.
You could nerf dark glare which i can see people saying this would be amazing it would slow the deck down the deck would still see play it would still oppress control decks and it doesnt stop an uninteractable combo. The point is while those cards are good and really impactful cards they dont remove the larger scale problem with those 2 particular decks oppressing control. It doesnt stop them from hitting quest before control decks in either format can interact with them.
Lets look at nerfing the other cards people suggested for both decks lets nerf incanters flow. Quest mage in wild and standard both do not care that much it slows them down a little bit win % drops probably by about 5% they both still push control out of the meta so no change on control decks being playable as you can still complete both quests by turn 5-6. Meaning in both formats aggro gets a little bit better. In wild that deletes mozaki mage and flamewalker mage from being playable personally I dont think flamewalker or mozaki was that oppressive they were both still manageable in wild before that. In stanard the curve is low enough incanters while nice doesnt break the meta. The quest is still going to get the minion out before mutanus can interact with it and there is no other way for control decks outside illuciana to interact with it. Which means you need 8 mana again to slow to stop the quest trigger. As a result your still getting over the top damage that you cant out armor and you cant out heal with control decks. Wild you slow it down 1 turn. No real impact.
What about warlock and dark glare. Dark glare itself as a deck was tier 1 in wild last expansion. Was manageable control decks still managed to deal with it decks still saw turn 10 and later. Dark Glare was just a really really good deck. I played it season 2 for good results in wild. Season 3 When it was arguablly the better wild deck I played shaman and managed to deal with dark glare decks in wild just fine. So what about nerfing dark glare and not the quest in wild. Well your still going to get killed by apothacary after tamsin and control is still not going to be able to resolve it in time. So no change quest still sees play you nerf the aggro version of dark glare warlock. So you push out more aggro aggro decks from the wild meta and make the quest even more annoying for existing control decks. Standard the impact is minimal. Dark glare quest in standard isnt the issue the issue is that control decks just cant deal with tamsins effect in standard dealing face damage. They cant interact with the damage to remove it they cant out armor the damage in standard. They cant out heal the damage. The problem remains for control decks in both standard and wild.
Hunter - Theres no card to nerf there outside the quest in standard the quest is 0 problems in wild its aggressive and again a way to push control out of the meta you again cant out heal it cant interact with it. In standard the deck is actually bad there is no good draw for hunter and your flooding your deck with cards that actually are bad. They didnt see play at all before the quest and with the quest they are still just bad cards. The +2 damage while not as flashy you could stack the benefits so bran in wild now your getting a 6 damage hero power in odd hunter your talking 5 damage / 7 damage hero power. Which is still very very strong but your not getting insane crazy turns that just go over the top of control decks to the point they cannot do anything about it. And in standard the card is just better getting a consistant 4 damage beats 2 damage half the time for the odd chance you get 4-6 damage out of it. The card draw just isnt there in standard.
In the case of both the ideas i had for mage and hunter your giving them something else to play to you letting them build control varients with the quest and personally I think buffing the quests in some ways much like with the warlock idea it would be a buff in some ways in standard and a soft nerf in wild.
In case of the warlock design the damage is interactable your still stopping damage to your hero completing the quest fatigue is still removed. Instead of dealing reflected uninteractable damage to the face with warlock. Your treating different sources of damage as threat generators. So instead taking the quest out of play with a nerf. At 0 cards in deck a back fire is making your 4 demons 1 from the backfire 3 from the 3 ticks of fatigue damage so your preventing 9 damage to face and generating 4 threats on table but those are interactable threats that means that a control deck has a turn to deal with the board before the damage goes to there face. 1 turn to interact is still 1 turn to interact. Something they did not have before. Meaning they have a better chance to fight back against the deck instead of a 10-15% chance to win the game they have a 35-40% chance to beat the deck instead and the match doesnt feel hopeless the second the see the quest played.
Warlock quest wouldn't be as bad if fatigue and hero power didn't both damage opponent. Maybe just CARDS PLAYED, there is still TONS of damage. It is just too much heals and damage potential when they can tap, draw and discard through their deck in 10 turns.
I dont really think its changing the cards honestly your still getting very similar affects just tweaked in a way to balance them. +3 spell damage is the problem with the mage quest. You can nerf it to the point of being unplayable they could nerf it to +1 spell damage making it alot worst or +2 where it still feels too over powered. Or you could give it a way to be in my opinion still strong but not overbearing. Personally myself I would play it at generate a spell from my deck over +1 spell damage. At +2 spell damage id still be saying its to broken because you cant interact with it.
Warlock quest there isnt really any way to nerf it to be slower in standard outside what i suggested with making it hero power dependent increasing the damage per turn to get the rewards would nerf it out of play. I dont think myself deleting the quests is a good idea as oppose to giving people a way to interact with the quests. My original thought was make card that just destroys quests much like flare destroyed secrets in previously.
The hunter quest is different from previous 2 in that its bad in standard. Busted in wild. So you could just say ban them in wild but that doesnt resolve anything for control in standard. You could say who cares about control players the fact so many people didnt like the one comment from iksar on the concept they were saying lets delete control as an archtype speaks for itself you delete control from the meta a fairly large chunk of hearthstone players would leave the game and blizzard would still be answering refund requests 2 years from now.
My personal opinion is changing the quests enough to keep the flavor of the quests close to the original but rebalancing them for changes is the best option to make them better in some ways while keeping differentiating them enough to still see play.
How is it bumping to respond to messages on a thread that I created I am responding to the messages explaining a point of view. On how I think it would be a more constructive way to balance and existing quest. The quests still play to the same original design but the idea was to rework them in a way that is balanced as oppose to just hitting them with a complete unplayable nerf stick.
As a mage main (who def thinks ppl are complaining way too much about it instead of other classes), I think this nerf is too much. The point of the quest reward is to finish the game with the spells you have in the deck and changing it to 'spell dmg +1' or discover a spell is far too underwhelming compared to every other quest reward. +1 spell dmg is not enough for a quest reward.
The problem with balancing is that nobody knows what the balancing effect will have, really. We tend to think of this in isolation but balancing by nerfing has a direct impact on the power balance of entire classes. It is very hard to get right and only Blizz has a chance to get it somewhat right because they have access to these nerfed builds. It is a mistake to nerf when meta is still far from figured out and still diversifying and not totally broken, which is what we have here. I've been looking at HSreplay every day and it seems that every day is different. However, from that POV the meta seems pretty balanced as of right now. Every deck has an effective counter or two. Nerfing now is a mistake. Decks that people don't like losing to are not that great, objectively speaking. It matters, of course, but let's not call them broken. Speaking about Standard.
Not even going to comment on the idea to redesign the quests practically from scratch; that's science fiction and not going to happen.
Warlock quest is balanced and offers some pay off for self-damage cards - I'm talking about the heals in between stages, not the final reward, as that seems to be the best approach right now in a Zoolock deck.
Mage is not doing so great against most classes so it's not an issue, really. Only the final reward is useful and that is what ultimately holds it back (i.e. slows it down).
Shaman is in a similar place but the reward is slightly better IMHO and easier to achieve (not reliant on a specific spell type). It is fine as is.
Rogue seems fun and varied - it is fine as long as it can rely on Shadowstepping effects. Bump the power slightly and it will dominate because of that, not the power of the 1x reward alone. DH takes advantage of the quest rewards throughout but needs to waste turns drawing cards instead of playing them. Seems like it's balanced, too.
Druid is underpowered slightly, so is Hunter. Priest is trash tier but bump it and we will never hear the end of moaning. Warrior would be good but the randomness of the final reward ultimately brings it down, as are any random effects in HS.
Reducing the spell damage on mage Quest to 1 or make it discover a card that started in your deck would make it unplayable. 1 spell damage is nothing. 2 is even more acceptable. This is a Legendary card and Mage needs to be competitively viable. It shouldn't auto lose to decks or be made that much weaker seeing as it already has a hard time winning because it is weak to Aggro.
The biggest issue is Flow, and I say this as a Mage main. Mage has a lot of draw, but Flow enable Mage to play a lot of their draws in the same turn. Warlock, there really is much way to change this card without making it do something completely different. Hunter, 0 cost Hero power that refreshes IS pretty busted for a class that can already burn you down with it even when it costs 2.
The best fix would be to increase the cost of the rewarded minions so the effect enters the game later. 6-8 would be fair. 9 to 10 would be extreme. Though even with these quests nerfed, the game won't get any slower. The strongest decks in the game don't even use the quests. Those decks will just become more prevalent when the Quest decks receive a nerf, then people will start to complain about those decks next, that's what always happens. Blizzard could nip this in the bud by nerfing more than just the quest decks this round, but they haven't even met yet to discuss nerfs or look at the data. They are doing that tomorrow.
@xanzan1 the comment on adjusting the quest reward cost for some of the quests is actually a really good balance i think for the mage quest possibly the warlock quest. Not so sure it would work as well with hunter. If they were adjusted to 7-8 on mage or warlock quests at least there would be interaction options for the rewards it might make the hunter on the other hand unplayable in both formats.
@Finalstan i think the warlock is very unbalanced in wild like drastically unbalanced. Personal thoughts like i noted earlier the only ones i feel are pushing unbalanced or over powered i feel are mage / hunter / warlock. And Hunter and warlock I dont think its a standard issues its more of a wild issue. Warlock isnt so much unbalanced for standard as oppressive in standard with some extreme polarizing match ups vs control. Mage personally i feel is unbalanced in both formats especially when you can curve completely under 3 mana outside refreshing spring water in wild and draw your entire deck without need for cards like mozaki or flamewalker as a win condition even you can basically just draw till you find what your looking for an our fight just kill them with insane consistancy. In standard ive been playing today even with a 70% plus win rate on mage just to see how polarizing it is the only game ive lost thus far was a mirror match. Because of a play mistake on my part and finished in the quest second. But thats also only out of like 10-15 games which is not an accurate accessment by any means but it proves how polarizing the match feels.
Mage does have a bad match up vs OTK Demon Hunter and Druid however as a side bar note. In standard. Due to lack of ability to use face damage frost spells in standard.
I feel like a decent solution to alot of the current metas problem can be fixed with simply card nerfs and card rotation.
If I were to nerf mage it would be by making incanters flow 3 mana or removing arcane intellect from standard. Mage has more than enough draw in comparison to the others classes and its a little unfair that they get arcane intellect while warrior can't have shield block or shaman cant have ancestral teachings.
If I were to nerf warlock I would make stealer of souls ability be a battle cry and I would actually increase the amount of damage necessary for questline completion. Warlock has more healing than a majority of classes so Thats kinda fair.
And my last nerfs would be just to rotate gagtetzan auctioneer from standard. Auctioneer has been around for a long time and removing it would allow newer cards to see play. Like the brand new minion in mage that draws a card after a fire spell is played. Auctioneer does the exact same thing but better and alot of solitaire deck tend to have auctioneer in it.