I'm just wondering exactly how Sphere of Sapience interacts with targetted draw. Say I drop a fireball to the bottom of the deck via sphere, followed by an ice barrier to the bottom, and then play Inconspicuous Rider. Is the deck then shuffled? Does the fireball stay bottom? Does this somehow change if there's one/two barriers? If there's two, which is pulled by Rider, or is it random if it's still bottom? I'd presume that taelan would work the exact same as rider here.
I'm just wondering exactly how Sphere of Sapience interacts with targetted draw. Say I drop a fireball to the bottom of the deck via sphere, followed by an ice barrier to the bottom, and then play Inconspicuous Rider. Is the deck then shuffled? Does the fireball stay bottom? Does this somehow change if there's one/two barriers? If there's two, which is pulled by Rider, or is it random if it's still bottom? I'd presume that taelan would work the exact same as rider here.
Tutors do not care about the order of your deck, just if there is a card or not. If several cards match the tutor criteria, it chooses randomly.
I am not entirely sure about the meaning of "bottom" in this case, and which cards reshuffle. I am pretty sure swapping decks does reshuffle, though.
Edit: I did some testing. Direhorn Hatchling says "shuffle into your deck", and that means that the cards Sphere of Sapience put at the bottom will not be at the bottom anymore. I assume this is the case for all "shuffle" cards, including your opponent's deck and orders made by Lorekeeper Polkelt.
The card says in deck which means anywhere in deck so just because u dropped to the bottom doesn’t mean u will get different secret
My question is more what happens to the ordering of the deck after the tutor? Does the tutor shuffle the deck? Assuming it picks randmoly from the two barriers, is there a 50% chance of the barrier left in the deck being on the bottom, or is it shuffled regardless? Particularly given how HS code has been... unintuitive before, I'm just curious as to how this all works. We've not had much deck manipulation like Sphere before, so it also gives a chance to find out more about how the game works - is the deck kept as a strictly ordered list before stuff is put on the bottom?
In addition, I'm curious regarding the fact that Sphere is a one of a kind card, so does it suffer from similar situations as Lord Jaraxxus did where it broke all the rules because it was hardcoded (things like battlecry triggering after secrets being one of the big inconsistencies there. Repentance+Lord J = sad lock back in the day). Nice to get some confirmation that it responds to shuffle effects, though I wasn't expecting those to leave stuff on the bottom! Also interesting that swapping decks technically seems to shuffle.
If the card text doesn't suggest that it shuffles the deck, you should assume it doesn't.
As far as I know, normal tutor cards don't shuffle your deck when they pull a card from the deck, the rest of the deck has the same order.
If you put 2 ice barrier at the bottom of your deck, then tutor one randomly with Inconspicuous Rider, the other barrier is still at the bottom.
If your bottom 3 cards are Ice Barrier / Fireball / Ice Barrier (in that order), inconspicuous rider will pull one barrier at random and fireball will have a 50% chance to be the last card, and 50% to be the second to last card, with no way to know.
I'm just wondering exactly how Sphere of Sapience interacts with targetted draw. Say I drop a fireball to the bottom of the deck via sphere, followed by an ice barrier to the bottom, and then play Inconspicuous Rider. Is the deck then shuffled? Does the fireball stay bottom? Does this somehow change if there's one/two barriers? If there's two, which is pulled by Rider, or is it random if it's still bottom? I'd presume that taelan would work the exact same as rider here.
Tutors do not care about the order of your deck, just if there is a card or not. If several cards match the tutor criteria, it chooses randomly.
I am not entirely sure about the meaning of "bottom" in this case, and which cards reshuffle. I am pretty sure swapping decks does reshuffle, though.
Edit: I did some testing. Direhorn Hatchling says "shuffle into your deck", and that means that the cards Sphere of Sapience put at the bottom will not be at the bottom anymore. I assume this is the case for all "shuffle" cards, including your opponent's deck and orders made by Lorekeeper Polkelt.
The card says in deck which means anywhere in deck so just because u dropped to the bottom doesn’t mean u will get different secret
My question is more what happens to the ordering of the deck after the tutor? Does the tutor shuffle the deck? Assuming it picks randmoly from the two barriers, is there a 50% chance of the barrier left in the deck being on the bottom, or is it shuffled regardless? Particularly given how HS code has been... unintuitive before, I'm just curious as to how this all works. We've not had much deck manipulation like Sphere before, so it also gives a chance to find out more about how the game works - is the deck kept as a strictly ordered list before stuff is put on the bottom?
In addition, I'm curious regarding the fact that Sphere is a one of a kind card, so does it suffer from similar situations as Lord Jaraxxus did where it broke all the rules because it was hardcoded (things like battlecry triggering after secrets being one of the big inconsistencies there. Repentance+Lord J = sad lock back in the day). Nice to get some confirmation that it responds to shuffle effects, though I wasn't expecting those to leave stuff on the bottom! Also interesting that swapping decks technically seems to shuffle.
From testing it a bit, it looks like ANYTHING you do with your deck except drawing the top card will reshuffle it so the bottom cards put there with Sphere of Sapience no longer be at the bottom. This includes both shuffeling more cards into your deck and tutoring specific cards. I haven't checked if the same is the case with the order created by Lorekeeper Polkelt yet.
Afaik, in MTG, you always reshuffle after tutoring, but the whole "move to the bottom" idea was probably not a great one, as there are many unintuitive ways it is reset.
The card says in deck which means anywhere in deck so just because u dropped to the bottom doesn’t mean u will get different secret
My question is more what happens to the ordering of the deck after the tutor? Does the tutor shuffle the deck? Assuming it picks randmoly from the two barriers, is there a 50% chance of the barrier left in the deck being on the bottom, or is it shuffled regardless? Particularly given how HS code has been... unintuitive before, I'm just curious as to how this all works. We've not had much deck manipulation like Sphere before, so it also gives a chance to find out more about how the game works - is the deck kept as a strictly ordered list before stuff is put on the bottom?
In addition, I'm curious regarding the fact that Sphere is a one of a kind card, so does it suffer from similar situations as Lord Jaraxxus did where it broke all the rules because it was hardcoded (things like battlecry triggering after secrets being one of the big inconsistencies there. Repentance+Lord J = sad lock back in the day). Nice to get some confirmation that it responds to shuffle effects, though I wasn't expecting those to leave stuff on the bottom! Also interesting that swapping decks technically seems to shuffle.
From testing it a bit, it looks like ANYTHING you do with your deck except drawing the top card will reshuffle it so the bottom cards put there with Sphere of Sapience no longer be at the bottom. This includes both shuffeling more cards into your deck and tutoring specific cards. I haven't checked if the same is the case with the order created by Lorekeeper Polkelt yet.
Afaik, in MTG, you always reshuffle after tutoring, but the whole "move to the bottom" idea was probably not a great one, as there are many unintuitive ways it is reset.
Thank you very much!
In MTG you always shuffle after tutoring because you know the order of your deck at that point - almost more of a mechanical issue forcing it. Interesting to find that it still shuffles here. MTG has so many more shuffle effects, though, a brainstorm wouldn't be as strong in HS, due example (though obv. very good), owing to no fetches to easily shuffle etc.
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I'm just wondering exactly how Sphere of Sapience interacts with targetted draw. Say I drop a fireball to the bottom of the deck via sphere, followed by an ice barrier to the bottom, and then play Inconspicuous Rider. Is the deck then shuffled? Does the fireball stay bottom? Does this somehow change if there's one/two barriers? If there's two, which is pulled by Rider, or is it random if it's still bottom? I'd presume that taelan would work the exact same as rider here.
Tutors do not care about the order of your deck, just if there is a card or not. If several cards match the tutor criteria, it chooses randomly.
I am not entirely sure about the meaning of "bottom" in this case, and which cards reshuffle. I am pretty sure swapping decks does reshuffle, though.
Edit: I did some testing. Direhorn Hatchling says "shuffle into your deck", and that means that the cards Sphere of Sapience put at the bottom will not be at the bottom anymore. I assume this is the case for all "shuffle" cards, including your opponent's deck and orders made by Lorekeeper Polkelt.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The card says in deck which means anywhere in deck so just because u dropped to the bottom doesn’t mean u will get different secret
My question is more what happens to the ordering of the deck after the tutor? Does the tutor shuffle the deck? Assuming it picks randmoly from the two barriers, is there a 50% chance of the barrier left in the deck being on the bottom, or is it shuffled regardless? Particularly given how HS code has been... unintuitive before, I'm just curious as to how this all works. We've not had much deck manipulation like Sphere before, so it also gives a chance to find out more about how the game works - is the deck kept as a strictly ordered list before stuff is put on the bottom?
In addition, I'm curious regarding the fact that Sphere is a one of a kind card, so does it suffer from similar situations as Lord Jaraxxus did where it broke all the rules because it was hardcoded (things like battlecry triggering after secrets being one of the big inconsistencies there. Repentance+Lord J = sad lock back in the day). Nice to get some confirmation that it responds to shuffle effects, though I wasn't expecting those to leave stuff on the bottom! Also interesting that swapping decks technically seems to shuffle.
If the card text doesn't suggest that it shuffles the deck, you should assume it doesn't.
As far as I know, normal tutor cards don't shuffle your deck when they pull a card from the deck, the rest of the deck has the same order.
If you put 2 ice barrier at the bottom of your deck, then tutor one randomly with Inconspicuous Rider, the other barrier is still at the bottom.
If your bottom 3 cards are Ice Barrier / Fireball / Ice Barrier (in that order), inconspicuous rider will pull one barrier at random and fireball will have a 50% chance to be the last card, and 50% to be the second to last card, with no way to know.
great info
From testing it a bit, it looks like ANYTHING you do with your deck except drawing the top card will reshuffle it so the bottom cards put there with Sphere of Sapience no longer be at the bottom. This includes both shuffeling more cards into your deck and tutoring specific cards. I haven't checked if the same is the case with the order created by Lorekeeper Polkelt yet.
Afaik, in MTG, you always reshuffle after tutoring, but the whole "move to the bottom" idea was probably not a great one, as there are many unintuitive ways it is reset.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Thank you very much!
In MTG you always shuffle after tutoring because you know the order of your deck at that point - almost more of a mechanical issue forcing it. Interesting to find that it still shuffles here. MTG has so many more shuffle effects, though, a brainstorm wouldn't be as strong in HS, due example (though obv. very good), owing to no fetches to easily shuffle etc.