Crabrider Isn't this card problematic? It's too strong for a neutral card specially in some decks like rush warrior and secret paladin.
I've played 3 games in a row like this: Coin + Crabrider (turn 1) - Buff him with Hand of A'dal (turn 2), then buff him with Conviction (Rank 1) There is no way to win against that and, even if you could, you already used all your stuff in 1 minion losing anyway. Even if they only cast hand of a'dal on it it's a 3/6 windfury at turn 2.
Same happends with rush warrior when they do: turn 2 crabrider and turn 3 rokara...
And even if they don't have hand of A'dal or Conviction, a 1/4 rush winfury turn 1 or 2 is so hard to deal with.
I don't think it needs a nerf or anything, but I played a couple of games with Rush warrior this morning and it definitely felt like the MVP of the deck. The 4-health makes it really hard to remove early
It has the Zilliax effect. Strong, but mostly fair. If you buff it, it becomes much stronger than many other minions, just like Zilliax. I genuinely like the card.
Yes, I think it is far too strong. It is a "throw all your have to kill it or lose" card, which is too much for a 2-drop WITH imidiate impact and value later in the game to boot.
Oh, and the horrors in Wild with Call to Arms and more murloc synergies...
The OP is telling a story similar to back in the vanilla HS days where Druids would get coin + Innervate and play turn 1 Chillwind Yeti.
If you go back in the forums, you will find serious conversations about nerfing Yeti based on exactly that scenario. And you'll find me asking the same question I'm going to ask now: Are you having a problem with Crab Rider or are you having a problem with blitz strategies in general?
The bottom line is, there will always be extreme aggro plays that throw basically all of the early resources into one attack. Sure, if it works it's a pain, but the fact of the matter is, the game is often decided in either player's favor very quickly when playing this way. Contrary to statements made in the OP, there are options for any class to take out a crab rider even with the buffs, and if you have the answer, the game will take some time to play out, but its probably constructively over at the moment the Rider dies.
Ive been arguing with the Tickatus folks who insist that control has no chance against the Tick, and I've been relating stories of games where people failed to adjust their play based on opportunities to win the game. The thing with Crab Rider is the opposite sort of adjustment. Ive always admired folks who can get in the mindset, "hey, if this game goes past turn 5, I lose" and play accordingly.
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I think the Card's mana cost is fine...maybe nerfing its health so its a 1/3 instead of a 1/4 for its base stat line would make it more manageable?
As it stands alone it's fine. It's not broken it's strong though. Crab Rider's problem isn't really its stats though it's the fact it's a neutral card. Way too many ways to support and buff the card. If it went to a class that has a harder difficulty of buffing its cards like say warlock or warrior, it would've been fine. But if you have to change anything about the card I think hitting its health value will help balance it way more than mana ever could.
The OP is telling a story similar to back in the vanilla HS days where Druids would get coin + Innervate and play turn 1 Chillwind Yeti.
If you go back in the forums, you will find serious conversations about nerfing Yeti based on exactly that scenario. And you'll find me asking the same question I'm going to ask now: Are you having a problem with Crab Rider or are you having a problem with blitz strategies in general?
The bottom line is, there will always be extreme aggro plays that throw basically all of the early resources into one attack. Sure, if it works it's a pain, but the fact of the matter is, the game is often decided in either player's favor very quickly when playing this way. Contrary to statements made in the OP, there are options for any class to take out a crab rider even with the buffs, and if you have the answer, the game will take some time to play out, but its probably constructively over at the moment the Rider dies.
Ive been arguing with the Tickatus folks who insist that control has no chance against the Tick, and I've been relating stories of games where people failed to adjust their play based on opportunities to win the game. The thing with Crab Rider is the opposite sort of adjustment. Ive always admired folks who can get in the mindset, "hey, if this game goes past turn 5, I lose" and play accordingly.
I think you are assuming that both the crab-rider player and the opponent are bad players, which is a common mistake in Hearthstone.
The crabrider player should know perfectly well which removal and trades to play against, and the opponent should know perfectly well which buffs are about to head your way if you leave it alive. Yes, some times, the crabrider player will gamble, but usually, they will calculate the correct play based on the probability to win. In any case, 2-mana 1-4, rush, windfury, murloc is just waaaay too much imo. Flying Machine was recently used in a similar manner in mech paladin, mind you..
Not sure where you got that impression, but it's quite the opposite, I'm always trying to figure out the situation where the play being made is the correct play.
In the case of putting all your resources into a blitz attack, I suppose there are a few occasions when the opponent hasnt made any plays in the first two turns . . . you happen to be playing a class that literally can't spot remove your attacker . . . but those are obviously the trivial cases in this discussion. In most cases, when you invest that much into a single creature attack, it is definitionally a gamble. That may or may not be the odds on favorite to be the winning play, but that's the entire beauty of figuring out the play.
As a final thought, you used the phrase "common mistake" regarding assuming an opponent is a bad player. Certainly in the past two metas when I have been doing some quantitative data gathering, I have come to objectively realize two things.
1. The majority of Hearthstone games do not include even one game-hinging decision that requires much thought or calculation to solve. I can go into black and white definitions of what constitutes "much thought or calculation", but I don't really think there will be too much argument against #1.
2. Of the games that DO have a difficult puzzle to solve or a close decision between correct and incorrect lines, more often than not, the ladder player below about top #200 legend will reliably pick the incorrect line. I've started a collection of replays where black and white bad plays were made to throw the game (including games where I was the one throwing), and it's getting to be a surprisingly large collection.
None of which in any way reaches the subject of the OP or my OR, but since you brought it up.
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the same reason watchtower was nerfed from 4 to 3 health applies here, 4 health on turn 2 or 1 with coin is hard to deal with for some classes. It was suppose to be a tempo card when introduced to get the board back, not to buff it and smorc with it. Make it 3 mana because a 2 mana 1/3 with rush and windfury wont get u trades.
I love Crabrider! He's a funny lil fella, and sometimes I can snatch a game up if he doesn't get removed. Great source of Windfury for Corpsetaker too. Great for aggro matchups for pushing through multiple Silver Hand Recruits or an Argent Protector, and becomes a very scary threat if left alone too long. The perfect card.
Crabrider is at its strongest in the early game, played on curve or coined out with buffs in hand. It can't survive trades into anything with more than 1/2 in stats (more attack than that I mean). If played and actually used to trade, it's not difficult at all for most classes to remove before it becomes a bigger problem.
Good card, very good. Probably fine though, given what exists around it.
The fact that priest has class card 1/1/4 and Crabrider is neutral 2/1/4 with WINDFURY and RUSH is saying something. With the keywords it has and is overstated as well it is bit tad strong.
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"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
it's a powercrept Flying Machine, a card that used to be seriously competitive in >wild< before crabby boi arrived, which imho, says a lot about the power of the card
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Crabrider Isn't this card problematic? It's too strong for a neutral card specially in some decks like rush warrior and secret paladin.
I've played 3 games in a row like this: Coin + Crabrider (turn 1) - Buff him with Hand of A'dal (turn 2), then buff him with Conviction (Rank 1) There is no way to win against that and, even if you could, you already used all your stuff in 1 minion losing anyway. Even if they only cast hand of a'dal on it it's a 3/6 windfury at turn 2.
Same happends with rush warrior when they do: turn 2 crabrider and turn 3 rokara...
And even if they don't have hand of A'dal or Conviction, a 1/4 rush winfury turn 1 or 2 is so hard to deal with.
Hmm the card is strong but I think it’s fine as is
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I don't think it needs a nerf or anything, but I played a couple of games with Rush warrior this morning and it definitely felt like the MVP of the deck. The 4-health makes it really hard to remove early
It's a good card, but i don't think it's problematic. There are far far more problematic cards in hearthstone that need to be nerfed
It has the Zilliax effect. Strong, but mostly fair. If you buff it, it becomes much stronger than many other minions, just like Zilliax. I genuinely like the card.
Yes, I think it is far too strong. It is a "throw all your have to kill it or lose" card, which is too much for a 2-drop WITH imidiate impact and value later in the game to boot.
Oh, and the horrors in Wild with Call to Arms and more murloc synergies...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The OP is telling a story similar to back in the vanilla HS days where Druids would get coin + Innervate and play turn 1 Chillwind Yeti.
If you go back in the forums, you will find serious conversations about nerfing Yeti based on exactly that scenario. And you'll find me asking the same question I'm going to ask now: Are you having a problem with Crab Rider or are you having a problem with blitz strategies in general?
The bottom line is, there will always be extreme aggro plays that throw basically all of the early resources into one attack. Sure, if it works it's a pain, but the fact of the matter is, the game is often decided in either player's favor very quickly when playing this way. Contrary to statements made in the OP, there are options for any class to take out a crab rider even with the buffs, and if you have the answer, the game will take some time to play out, but its probably constructively over at the moment the Rider dies.
Ive been arguing with the Tickatus folks who insist that control has no chance against the Tick, and I've been relating stories of games where people failed to adjust their play based on opportunities to win the game. The thing with Crab Rider is the opposite sort of adjustment. Ive always admired folks who can get in the mindset, "hey, if this game goes past turn 5, I lose" and play accordingly.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I think its on a similar power level to pre-nerf Far Watch Post. Potentially scary if left unchecked and awkward to remove with that 4 health.
Let’s give it the watchtower nerf make 2/3 lol seems like it will work for most nerfed
I think the Card's mana cost is fine...maybe nerfing its health so its a 1/3 instead of a 1/4 for its base stat line would make it more manageable?
As it stands alone it's fine. It's not broken it's strong though. Crab Rider's problem isn't really its stats though it's the fact it's a neutral card. Way too many ways to support and buff the card. If it went to a class that has a harder difficulty of buffing its cards like say warlock or warrior, it would've been fine. But if you have to change anything about the card I think hitting its health value will help balance it way more than mana ever could.
should be 1/3
Its strong but for being op need another cards like a buff so its fine
I think you are assuming that both the crab-rider player and the opponent are bad players, which is a common mistake in Hearthstone.
The crabrider player should know perfectly well which removal and trades to play against, and the opponent should know perfectly well which buffs are about to head your way if you leave it alive. Yes, some times, the crabrider player will gamble, but usually, they will calculate the correct play based on the probability to win. In any case, 2-mana 1-4, rush, windfury, murloc is just waaaay too much imo. Flying Machine was recently used in a similar manner in mech paladin, mind you..
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Not sure where you got that impression, but it's quite the opposite, I'm always trying to figure out the situation where the play being made is the correct play.
In the case of putting all your resources into a blitz attack, I suppose there are a few occasions when the opponent hasnt made any plays in the first two turns . . . you happen to be playing a class that literally can't spot remove your attacker . . . but those are obviously the trivial cases in this discussion. In most cases, when you invest that much into a single creature attack, it is definitionally a gamble. That may or may not be the odds on favorite to be the winning play, but that's the entire beauty of figuring out the play.
As a final thought, you used the phrase "common mistake" regarding assuming an opponent is a bad player. Certainly in the past two metas when I have been doing some quantitative data gathering, I have come to objectively realize two things.
1. The majority of Hearthstone games do not include even one game-hinging decision that requires much thought or calculation to solve. I can go into black and white definitions of what constitutes "much thought or calculation", but I don't really think there will be too much argument against #1.
2. Of the games that DO have a difficult puzzle to solve or a close decision between correct and incorrect lines, more often than not, the ladder player below about top #200 legend will reliably pick the incorrect line. I've started a collection of replays where black and white bad plays were made to throw the game (including games where I was the one throwing), and it's getting to be a surprisingly large collection.
None of which in any way reaches the subject of the OP or my OR, but since you brought it up.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
This. Hope it gets hit in the upcoming balance patch along with Tickatus and wild otk mage.
the same reason watchtower was nerfed from 4 to 3 health applies here, 4 health on turn 2 or 1 with coin is hard to deal with for some classes. It was suppose to be a tempo card when introduced to get the board back, not to buff it and smorc with it. Make it 3 mana because a 2 mana 1/3 with rush and windfury wont get u trades.
I love Crabrider! He's a funny lil fella, and sometimes I can snatch a game up if he doesn't get removed. Great source of Windfury for Corpsetaker too. Great for aggro matchups for pushing through multiple Silver Hand Recruits or an Argent Protector, and becomes a very scary threat if left alone too long. The perfect card.
Crabrider is at its strongest in the early game, played on curve or coined out with buffs in hand. It can't survive trades into anything with more than 1/2 in stats (more attack than that I mean). If played and actually used to trade, it's not difficult at all for most classes to remove before it becomes a bigger problem.
Good card, very good. Probably fine though, given what exists around it.
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It’s a little bit to strong imho, 1/3 would be a good nerf
2 Mana 1/4 (5 Stats in total) + Rush + Windfury is super super strong even without buffs. WITH buffs this litte dude become a biest
The fact that priest has class card 1/1/4 and Crabrider is neutral 2/1/4 with WINDFURY and RUSH is saying something. With the keywords it has and is overstated as well it is bit tad strong.
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
it's a powercrept Flying Machine, a card that used to be seriously competitive in >wild< before crabby boi arrived, which imho, says a lot about the power of the card