I know, Warlock is not on the most recent list of classes to be nerfed, and I am a ControlLock player (always have been, even when it was bad / mediocre) so I am someone initially reluctant to Warlock nerfs; but when people feel that a class is too oppressive, even when it may not be, it can be a good hint about to attempt some soft nerfs / changes to sooth their design (I personally find Jaraxxus to be more problematic, in practice, than Tickatus, although I admit that Tickatus is conceptually damaging).
Rationale: the card currently has the effect of removing value / key cards from the opponent AND also accelerating the fatigue race in an uninteractive way which can feel oppressive when the effect is repeated a second (and even a third time). The suggested change achieves the following:
The adversary can now choose to slow down its rate of resource acquisition by not necessarily playing the expired tickets, giving them the win condition of letting the Warlock die of its own fatigue;
Expired tickets become valid targets for successive battlecries of Tickatus, thus reducing, on average the total amount of cards disrupted (soft reduction of it).
It gives another way to tech against Tickatus: build a deck that abuses 0-mana-do-nothing spells, such as Mozaki, Master Duelist
It thus decreases a bit its effectiveness against control deck, while remaining effective against slow combo decks, which Tickatus is by design intended to counter.
And last but not least: it preserves the lore of the card, which is something not to be overlooked (hence why removing the Demon tag, for instance, does not seem appropriate to me).
Question: this has the side-effect of removing the direct information about removed cards. While for some other cards this could be an improvement, I don't think this is a good thing for Tickatus (at least for the player getting tick'ed): if a combo deck gets its win condition removed, let's save both players some time by letting the combo player concede based off that information. So I would imagine this information still being available in the card history (and thus, deck-trackers), until they get a nice UI effect. One way to easily get this effect visually would be to keep the current Tickatus effect (remove 5 cards from the deck), and then shuffling as many expired tickets in the deck.
Finally, maybe Lord Jaraxxus should be tweaked a little bit: it is supposed to be a card that generates a lot of long-term value, but I've personally found Jaraxxus to also be kind of a countdown-kind of card: with 24 possible damage to face, and thus just needing one instance of 6 damage, the attack of the summoned infernals, to add up to 30; the face damage burn is real. I'd thus suggest the durability of the weapon be reduced a bit, down to, say, 5, or something along those lines.
reducing the durability of this weapon, or increasing its mana cost, is a very likely change. The current 2-mana Light's Justice that draws three cards reducing their cost by one (approximate evaluation of its effect), cheats too much for that cost.
Given the curve-into-3-drop intended design by Blizzard for this deck archetype, increasing the mana cost to 3-mana seems too severe.
Let's thus reduce its durability by 1. To make the nerf milder (given that I'll suggest other cards be mildly nerfed too), and to increase the skill / interactivity related to this card, I have added the option to pick the secret being pulled from the deck. This is both a tiny boost within the nerf, but also an improvement w.r.t. to the play experience: there is a dimension of mental plays around secrets that is completely lost when the secret is cast randomly (e.g., consider saving The Coin in your hand to play around Oh My Yogg!: with this new design, there are mind games to be done about this where there weren't 🙂)
Oh My Yogg! I would change it to cast a random spell that costs (1) more: it being RNG-based does not change the fact that the newly given spell ends up doing nothing compared to the initially intended spell; we are thus talking about an effect of a power level very close to that of Counterspell, which is a very solid 3-mana secret.
Avenge perhaps not so surprisingly, this secret has always been available when Secret Paladin has been oppressive. Giving 2 health on a random minion makes playing around it quite RNG-based, and giving 3 attack leads to big attack swings based off this initial RNG. I suspect this secret cheats more wins than meets the eye, although I admit I don't have access to the premium data to back this claim. Assuming I am not too wrong, I would nerf 1-stat off this card (I don't really care which, I personally lean towards +3/+1, but if this is felt as too strong of a nerf, I guess +2/+2 is fine too). Another option would be to give the stats to an adjacent minion (which would also be flavourful).
Similar reasoning applies to the Crossroads Gossiper: +2/+2 while Oh My Yogg! and the other secrets are around, leads back to this big-attack-swing-based-off-RNG I was talking about. I would thus nerf 1-stat off its effect as well; with, again, a preference for `+2/+1` rather than `+1/+2`, but I think it could go either way.
Note: I think applying all 4 nerfs (+ Pen Flinger's) may be too much, so I wouldn't be against skipping one of the suggested nerfs.
Deck of Lunacy I find this card hard to tweak without killing it entirely, but I guess that changing the spells to spells that cost (2) more (or to make the transformed spells cost (1) more) could be enough? The idea is that a card should not give value AND tempo. That's where bad design lies.
It's hard to come up with a change to this card that does not outright destroy it (e.g., changing its cost to 2 mana each time), or which may not be enough (e.g., making it target minions only), all while keeping the (granted, annoying) flavour of the card. I am quite pleased with this suggestion, though: it increases the mana cost of playing Pen Flingers by 1 per turn rather than 1 per time played, so as to keep it a bit playable in cheap-spell heavy decks.
Watch posts? These card are very hard to tweak, since the moment they got more classic stats, they become quite bad. I think the Far Watch Post is strong but not too strong to warrant a nerf to any of its stats; so that only leaves potentially nerfing the attack Mor'shan Watch Post by 1? I don't know.
So, what are your thoughts on this? I personally find that many tiny tweaks are better than a few big ones, and I have tried to be fair in distributing these tiny nerfs across the most (un)popular decks right now, while also trying to keep them playable (a deck should and can be playable without being oppressive). Remember: nerf something too hard and that will just allow other decks to rise and shine oppress
As you can see, I have made an effort to justify the reasoning behind most changes, and made suggestions in a constructive manner. We'd all benefit from you doing the same 🙂
Sword of the fallen and refreshing spring are the only things on your list that need toning down imo.
The problem with players is they need to get over building the greediest decks possible. People get annoyed at pen flinger because it goes face a lot in the late game, but that’s 100% your own fault for building such a greedy, reactive control deck.
The same can be said about tick. Tick is absolutely useless against aggro/tempo decks, and only really punishes decks that “do nothing.” I love seeing the posts of people that complain about tick, they’ll link their priest deck, with like 26 reactive cards and only c’thun as their win con, and they wonder why their opponents have time to do all the things.
People need to build their decks more proactively. I personally love tick because he keeps these players in check. The players that build decks that are designed to make games go on for 30+ min.
I really like the Tickatus idea, as well as the Pen Flinger nerf. The weapon nerf is a pretty obvious and safe choice.
As for Deck of Lunacy, as i have stated elsewhere, i would like to see it transform spells in your deck into entirely random spells and then reduce their cost by 3. It would still have the potential for insane games, but removing the ability to control the outcome makes it unusable for ranked play. I believe it is the change that best suits the spirit of the card.
I'm not sure Refreshing Spring Water needs a nerf, as the cost of running no minions is quite steep for a card that does the same as Cutting Class. Moreover, i believe Apexis Blast is an entirely fair card.
The only watchpost i would change is the Far Watch Post. My problem with this cards is not their power level, but the anti-fun design. I wouldn't nerf it, but instead redesign it entirely.
Sword of the fallen and refreshing spring are the only things on your list that need toning down imo.
The problem with players is they need to get over building the greediest decks possible. People get annoyed at pen flinger because it goes face a lot in the late game, but that’s 100% your own fault for building such a greedy, reactive control deck.
The same can be said about tick. Tick is absolutely useless against aggro/tempo decks, and only really punishes decks that “do nothing.” I love seeing the posts of people that complain about tick, they’ll link their priest deck, with like 26 reactive cards and only c’thun as their win con, and they wonder why their opponents have time to do all the things.
People need to build their decks more proactively. I personally love tick because he keeps these players in check. The players that build decks that are designed to make games go on for 30+ min.
Tickatus decks are the epitome of "do nothing" decks. 27 reactive cards and Tick, Y'shaark and Jaraxxus. So you're saying Tickatus counters the exact type of deck Tickatus is put in.
Your suggestion as it stands would be a BUFF to the card. In standard, there are 250 spells that cost at least 1, and 180 of them cost no more than 3. The median mana cost is actually 2, and it makes it far more likely that transforming any decent spell will become a random 2-mana spell instead, which will feel much *more* like a counterspell than it already does, and goes against your very point. It also means that countering cheap spells has a chance to do something huge, which is exactly the kind of game-winning RNG that isn't healthy to be in a meta.
As for Deck of Lunacy, as i have stated elsewhere, i would like to see it transform spells in your deck into entirely random spells and then reduce their cost by 3. It would still have the potential for insane games, but removing the ability to control the outcome makes it unusable for ranked play. I believe it is the change that best suits the spirit of the card.
This is a great suggestion for Deck of Lunacy nerf, best I've seen - random spells completely, then reduce. I can still see big swings, but not as consistent as you say. Fun and risky, the point of this card.
I hope something does happen with Tickatus. Once whatever nerfs hit next week you just know it's gonna be Tickatus decks all day long. It's already like that for me trying to play any control deck I'm guaranteed to face a Warlock and lose a minimum of 10 cards. One of which of course is always a C'thun piece. May aswell remove C'thun from the game at this point cause you can never play him anyway. One of the most anti fun cards ever printed. It just makes me not want to play the game. I just want to play my decks.
If I must nerf Tickatus, I change him to glide on a stick. Nobody complains about glide. Would still be good vs. Control and combo. Just not as good. People wouldnt lose their precious cards.
I dont nerf the watchposts! I like them as is. In fact, I would buff the 4 post to also give taunt each time.
Im not sure you can rein in paladin without nerfing about 12 cards (the demon hunter treatment) I dont bother trying, instead I nuke pen flinger from orbit making it cost 2.
(Paladin gets to rule until the mini set where I put some good actual anti paladin cards in, like a fantastic anti-secret card.)
I think refreshing spring water was a mistake. I would just HoF it myself. But, I think letting it only refresh 1 mana per spell is more reasonable. I dont bother adjusting much else. Mage gets to be strong until the mini expansion when I give them some crappy minions to dilute their pool.
I also add a good neutral draw card. Priest, Hunter and Shaman all get a boost. It is silly design to deny some classes draw while others have it in spades.
The biggest problem is Paladin by a land slide. It has definitely reached tier 0 status... 61% win rate and it's worst matchup is the mirror matchup. The 2 mana weapon is a must to get nerfed . It is way to fast and the secrets provide too much protection to their board. There isn't much playing around them when you see 3 on the board. I'd also go with the same line you went. It still seems really good though.
Oh my Yogg is 90% of the time a better Counterspell. It's going to be a hard card to nerf because nerfing the mana cost creates inconsistencies with the rest of the secret costs. I think the best bet to nerf it is to remove the clause of the spell having the same cost. That way playing the card comes with serious risks, specially early in the game (Which is when the card is most oppressive). This might kill the card but it's still really good later in the game and when playing it in the early game it becomes what it should be... a gamble.
Pen Flinger has had it coming for a while now. I like your suggestion but I doubt they'll change the card in such a complicated manner (Same goes for your Tickatus suggestion). If they go with a fixed mana cost increase they'll completely kill the card, And though I wouldn't mind it, I think just making it so it can't go face would be the best solution. This way the card could still see play in control decks that lack pings.
I'm just going to be blunt here about this one: I dislike your balance change suggestion for this card.
Why:
First of all, it changes pretty much nothing. The purpose of burning cards is to disrupt opponent's combo, and this does not change really anything. You mentioned something about using the spell nature of the ticket cards, but it only really benefits Rogue, Pen Flinger users, and Mage, probably (I don't think people really play Mozaki, Master Duelist). This change is useless for everyone else.
My alternative change: Keep its burning effect,Increase its Mana cost to 8, Increase its stats to 12/12.
Rationale:
I actually like gimmick-based cards, like Highkeeper Ra and The Ancient One, and Tickatus fits into this category. Disrupting combo cards exist way before Tickatus. Rin, the First Disciple also disrupts opponent's strategy. However, Tickatus's problem is that it is too easy to corrupt, and therefore, too easy to be played to burn cards, and be regenerated by Y'Shaarj, the Defiler. Increasing Mana to 8 makes Tickatus a LOT harder to corrupt, removing Twisting Nether and Enhanced Dreadlord's ability to corrupt it. This change will highly slow down the combo disruption and force Warlock to readjust their decks. The stats increase is to make up for the Mana increase, because stats-wise, the current Tickatus is fine.
Your suggestion is reasonable, but I don't agree with it.
Why:
I'd like to think of Lord Jaraxxus's weapon as his way of directly participating in the match, so I like its high durability. I think its weapon is fine, because it is balanced by the fact that you pay 9 Mana to only gain 5 Armor and +3 Attack, which is very weak compared to other Hero cards. I am a Warlock player, and I understand that Lord Jaraxxus is a bit too powerful.
My alternative change: Keep its weapon 3/8, Increase its Mana cost to 10.
Rationale:
Lord Jaraxxus's role is always to outlast the opponent in the late game by slowly outvalue them with moderate, indefinite pressure. However, I think the card is a little bit too powerful for the cost, considering it can immediately be supported by Strongman. Its 9 Mana cost also allows for a famous Jaraxxus + Coin + Hero Power. So, by increasing its Mana cost to 10, Lord Jaraxxus will be forced to slow down and the aforementioned combo no longer works.
I like the durability reduction change, but I honestly dislike the Discover buff very much.
Why:
Discover allows Paladin to choose which Secret to put onto the battlefield. Right now, even random Secrets from the weapon are enough to jack up Paladin's win rate. Adding Discover will cause even worse disaster. I'd like to keep the Secret placement random.
Spells transformed into by Oh My Yogg! can sometimes be a useless, or even a self-damaging spell (if you plan to damage a minion, but it transforms into a buff spell). For 2 Mana, it might be fine, but for 1 Mana, it's outrageous.
+2/+1 will reduce its power, but IMO it will still be oppressive. It will still deal the same damage and will destroy the same minion (if you attack it with a minion). Crossroads Gossiper's problem is that its stats become gigantic simply because of one boost, and it can still get stronger. 6/4 or 5/5 is still huge stats for 3 Mana.
My alternative change: Keep the +2/+2 boost, reduce its stats to 2/3.
Rationale:
This change will boost Crossroads Gossiper to 4/5 for one activation, which is higher than average, but not outrageously higher. I think the problem of Crossroads Gossiper is not necessarily in its boost, but in its base stats. Health higher than Attack allows Crossroads Gossiper to stay longer on the battlefield to keep buffing itself from Secrets, since that's its purpose.
I agree with this suggestion. With that being said, I'm skeptical about whether or not it would balance the card. I doubt it, but we'll just have to see about it.
I highly disagree with your suggestion, even though it's fine.
Why:
I'd like to keep flavors of the card intact. For example, Mordresh Fire Eye is a 10 Mana 10/10 that deals 10 damage. Keep it that way. Don't change the damage dealing to 5, it will destroy the flavor. If you wanted a nerf, change something else like it hits minions only or it requires 20 Hero Power damage instead of 10. Same as Jandice Barov, it's a 5 Mana minion that summons two 5 cost minions. I'd like to keep it that way.
My alternative change: Which of the minions that die when they take damage is chosen randomly instead of chosen by player, and it's visible to the opponent.
Rationale:
Jandice Barov is oppressive because Rogue can easily abuse the secret choice. For example, the 5 cost minions summoned are Burning Blade Acolyte and Firework Elemental. Of course the Rogue will choose the former. This results in the choice almost means nothing and it ends up almost purely summoning 2 random 5 cost minions for 5 Mana. Another problem is the fact that not only its value is very high, the opponent is punished extremely badly simply because they choose wrong. This change will stop Rogue from abusing the restrictions of the card. The card will still be very powerful IMO, especially if it high rolls.
Your suggestion doesn't really solve the problem IMO. I don't think damage output is the problem for Pen Flinger. Reducing its damage output would hurt the card. Efficient Octo-bot reduces the cost back to 1, keeping its flexibility.
My alternative change: Increase its Mana cost to 2 Mana, Increase its stats to 2/2, Increase its Battlecry damage to 2.
Rationale:
Pen Flinger's problem is not its damage output. Its problem is its flexibility. Being able to trigger Frenzy effects, enable Prize Plunderer, remove Divine Shield, etc. I'd actually like to keep its damage output, but reduce its flexibility. This change will keep the overall damage output (or even boost it, because it will require less spells to return it to the hand for the same damage, or the same amount of spells for double the damage), but reduce its flexibility.
11. The Watch Posts
I'm going to make it quick for this one. I think they should have 1 less attack, but 1 more Health, because they're built to survive, not to deal damage.
Sword of the fallen and refreshing spring are the only things on your list that need toning down imo.
The problem with players is they need to get over building the greediest decks possible. People get annoyed at pen flinger because it goes face a lot in the late game, but that’s 100% your own fault for building such a greedy, reactive control deck.
The same can be said about tick. Tick is absolutely useless against aggro/tempo decks, and only really punishes decks that “do nothing.” I love seeing the posts of people that complain about tick, they’ll link their priest deck, with like 26 reactive cards and only c’thun as their win con, and they wonder why their opponents have time to do all the things.
People need to build their decks more proactively. I personally love tick because he keeps these players in check. The players that build decks that are designed to make games go on for 30+ min.
People need to build their decks more proactively and Tickatus keeps those who dont in check, You do realize you love a deck that does exactly the same thing right?, It is literally a reactive deck, Has little to no pressure on the board early/mid game, It runs 12+ removal spells, You encourage people to build more proactive decks while supporting one of the most reactive decks in the game right now, The deck wants to do nothing at all apart from corrupt Tickatus, Play it, Play Jaraxxus and Y'Shaarj, The rest of the game it is quite happy to just draw cards, Shuffle souls into its deck and keep removing your boards. You say it keeps those players in check that build decks designed to go 30+ mintues........No it is a deck designed to go 30+ minutes, It has all the removal and late game win conditions with Jaraxxus to go 30+ minutes it just does'nt need to thanks to Tickatus and Y'Shaarj.
"People need to builds their decks more proactively........Apart from Control Warlock" would be more true because make no mistake about it, Control Warlock is the most sucessful reactive deck in the meta right now, Hell it might be the only reactive deck in the meta right now. You could make Tickatus a neutral card and along with Y'Shaarj and put that combo in control warrior or control priest and please go ahead and tell me how a control warrior or control priest with Tickatus/Y'Shaarj would play any differently than control warlock plays.
Hell theres your solution, Just make Tickatus a neutral card and it solves all the issues, It means people can play other control decks like warrior and priest so control players are happy but it also means no games go 30+ minutes so everyone else is happy, No i dont honestly think that is the answer or ever likely to happen but it would make for more variety in terms of the decks you face atleast.
Imagine stating Pen Flinger doesnt need a nerf in this meta and this much usage.
Also I'm still shocked Tickatus won't get nerfed this next week, it's absurd how broken that card is. Next week is warlockstone with Tickatus being played every game 4x.
Deck of Lunacy: only change the spell pool. The card is good only because the pool is too small in standard. So just make it wild spells. Then the consistency is gone and the card is garbage but still playable for fun
Mage + Paladin are the biggest threats right now in ladder guys.
1. I went up against a mage deck a few days ago, I was ahead on board (tickatus and 2 other minions) and had 4 cards in hand, while they had nothing and had to top deck. They topdecked a 1-mana Sprint, used it, played Solarian Prime, got Apexis Blast from one of the random spells, it hit one of my minions and killed it, and then somehow they developed 3 minions on their board, destroyed one of my minions, and ended up with a secret and 8 cards in their hand. I don't remember the exact sequencing, but I just know it's a bunch of random spells casted on me.
Again, THEY TOP DECKED AND GOT MORE THAN 10 CARDS IN HAND/BOARD COMBINED with a single draw... I haven't played hearthstone since that game because I knew If I ever played against a mage, something like that could happen.
2. Paladin has taken over the crown as king of aggro and I have no problem with that, but I feel like their weapon is too strong; Sword of the Fallen should be 4-mana, 1/4 instead of 2-mana 1/3. Giving it that extra durability is actually a buff, but making it cost 2 more mana is going to be nice to slow them down. Think about it, at 4-mana 1/4, it's a combination of 4 secrets and a light's justice put together, that's actually fair.
3. Incanter's Flow should be 4 mana. Seriously, I'm surprised that not a lot of people are talking about this card at all...
4. Deck of Lunacy. I don't know what they'll do to this card, but as long as it is what it is... I don't think I'm going to enjoy this game.
Cards that shouldn't be nerfed (whatsoever) would be Pen Flinger, Refreshing Spring Water, and Tickatus.
I know Pen Fling can be annoying to some people, but it's just 1 damage for 1 mana, like, come on guys...
Refreshing Spring Water is pretty much a pot of greed for spell mages, 0-mana draw 2, but it's only good if spell mages are good. So, if incanter's flow and deck of lunacy were nerfed..? Iunno how many ppl would even play spell mages anymore.
Tickatus? I remember this card used to be cost 5-mana, and it was pretty broken, at 6? You gotta play some pretty big stuff to corrupt this and then wait super late to find Y'sharj and mill your opponent again, but that's soooo slow. Requires such an awkward set-up of cards and even if you use it, all you're doing is milling them. It's only good against heavy control, but against Aggro, tickatus is extremely garbage. It's also hard for me to imagine the same card getting nerfed twice within 2 years.
Warlock
I know, Warlock is not on the most recent list of classes to be nerfed, and I am a ControlLock player (always have been, even when it was bad / mediocre) so I am someone initially reluctant to Warlock nerfs; but when people feel that a class is too oppressive, even when it may not be, it can be a good hint about to attempt some soft nerfs / changes to sooth their design (I personally find Jaraxxus to be more problematic, in practice, than Tickatus, although I admit that Tickatus is conceptually damaging).
Rationale: the card currently has the effect of removing value / key cards from the opponent AND also accelerating the fatigue race in an uninteractive way which can feel oppressive when the effect is repeated a second (and even a third time). The suggested change achieves the following:
Question: this has the side-effect of removing the direct information about removed cards. While for some other cards this could be an improvement, I don't think this is a good thing for Tickatus (at least for the player getting tick'ed): if a combo deck gets its win condition removed, let's save both players some time by letting the combo player concede based off that information. So I would imagine this information still being available in the card history (and thus, deck-trackers), until they get a nice UI effect. One way to easily get this effect visually would be to keep the current Tickatus effect (remove 5 cards from the deck), and then shuffling as many expired tickets in the deck.
Paladin
Rationale:
Note: I think applying all 4 nerfs (+ Pen Flinger's) may be too much, so I wouldn't be against skipping one of the suggested nerfs.
Mage
Pot of Greederr Refreshing Spring Water: I suggest a basic +1 mana cost.Rogue
Neutral
It's hard to come up with a change to this card that does not outright destroy it (e.g., changing its cost to 2 mana each time), or which may not be enough (e.g., making it target minions only), all while keeping the (granted, annoying) flavour of the card.
I am quite pleased with this suggestion, though: it increases the mana cost of playing Pen Flingers by 1 per turn rather than 1 per time played, so as to keep it a bit playable in cheap-spell heavy decks.
So, what are your thoughts on this? I personally find that many tiny tweaks are better than a few big ones, and I have tried to be fair in distributing these tiny nerfs across the most (un)popular decks right now, while also trying to keep them playable (a deck should and can be playable without being oppressive). Remember: nerf something too hard and that will just allow other decks to rise and
shineoppressAs you can see, I have made an effort to justify the reasoning behind most changes, and made suggestions in a constructive manner. We'd all benefit from you doing the same 🙂
Very interesting suggestions
Nerfing Pen Flinger, Apexis Blast or Tickatus have no sense at all.
Sword of the fallen and refreshing spring are the only things on your list that need toning down imo.
The problem with players is they need to get over building the greediest decks possible. People get annoyed at pen flinger because it goes face a lot in the late game, but that’s 100% your own fault for building such a greedy, reactive control deck.
The same can be said about tick. Tick is absolutely useless against aggro/tempo decks, and only really punishes decks that “do nothing.” I love seeing the posts of people that complain about tick, they’ll link their priest deck, with like 26 reactive cards and only c’thun as their win con, and they wonder why their opponents have time to do all the things.
People need to build their decks more proactively. I personally love tick because he keeps these players in check. The players that build decks that are designed to make games go on for 30+ min.
I really like the Tickatus idea, as well as the Pen Flinger nerf. The weapon nerf is a pretty obvious and safe choice.
As for Deck of Lunacy, as i have stated elsewhere, i would like to see it transform spells in your deck into entirely random spells and then reduce their cost by 3. It would still have the potential for insane games, but removing the ability to control the outcome makes it unusable for ranked play. I believe it is the change that best suits the spirit of the card.
I'm not sure Refreshing Spring Water needs a nerf, as the cost of running no minions is quite steep for a card that does the same as Cutting Class. Moreover, i believe Apexis Blast is an entirely fair card.
The only watchpost i would change is the Far Watch Post. My problem with this cards is not their power level, but the anti-fun design. I wouldn't nerf it, but instead redesign it entirely.
when they nerf a card they just increase mana, change a word in its wording or decrease health
Tickatus decks are the epitome of "do nothing" decks. 27 reactive cards and Tick, Y'shaark and Jaraxxus. So you're saying Tickatus counters the exact type of deck Tickatus is put in.
About Oh My Yogg!
Your suggestion as it stands would be a BUFF to the card. In standard, there are 250 spells that cost at least 1, and 180 of them cost no more than 3. The median mana cost is actually 2, and it makes it far more likely that transforming any decent spell will become a random 2-mana spell instead, which will feel much *more* like a counterspell than it already does, and goes against your very point.
It also means that countering cheap spells has a chance to do something huge, which is exactly the kind of game-winning RNG that isn't healthy to be in a meta.
This is a great suggestion for Deck of Lunacy nerf, best I've seen - random spells completely, then reduce. I can still see big swings, but not as consistent as you say. Fun and risky, the point of this card.
I hope something does happen with Tickatus. Once whatever nerfs hit next week you just know it's gonna be Tickatus decks all day long. It's already like that for me trying to play any control deck I'm guaranteed to face a Warlock and lose a minimum of 10 cards. One of which of course is always a C'thun piece. May aswell remove C'thun from the game at this point cause you can never play him anyway. One of the most anti fun cards ever printed. It just makes me not want to play the game. I just want to play my decks.
Ok. My shot.
If I must nerf Tickatus, I change him to glide on a stick. Nobody complains about glide. Would still be good vs. Control and combo. Just not as good. People wouldnt lose their precious cards.
I dont nerf the watchposts! I like them as is. In fact, I would buff the 4 post to also give taunt each time.
Im not sure you can rein in paladin without nerfing about 12 cards (the demon hunter treatment) I dont bother trying, instead I nuke pen flinger from orbit making it cost 2.
(Paladin gets to rule until the mini set where I put some good actual anti paladin cards in, like a fantastic anti-secret card.)
I think refreshing spring water was a mistake. I would just HoF it myself. But, I think letting it only refresh 1 mana per spell is more reasonable. I dont bother adjusting much else. Mage gets to be strong until the mini expansion when I give them some crappy minions to dilute their pool.
I also add a good neutral draw card. Priest, Hunter and Shaman all get a boost. It is silly design to deny some classes draw while others have it in spades.
Something like 4 mana 2/3 deathrattle draw 2.
Galavant Animation
The biggest problem is Paladin by a land slide. It has definitely reached tier 0 status... 61% win rate and it's worst matchup is the mirror matchup.
The 2 mana weapon is a must to get nerfed . It is way to fast and the secrets provide too much protection to their board. There isn't much playing around them when you see 3 on the board. I'd also go with the same line you went. It still seems really good though.
Oh my Yogg is 90% of the time a better Counterspell. It's going to be a hard card to nerf because nerfing the mana cost creates inconsistencies with the rest of the secret costs. I think the best bet to nerf it is to remove the clause of the spell having the same cost. That way playing the card comes with serious risks, specially early in the game (Which is when the card is most oppressive). This might kill the card but it's still really good later in the game and when playing it in the early game it becomes what it should be... a gamble.
Pen Flinger has had it coming for a while now. I like your suggestion but I doubt they'll change the card in such a complicated manner (Same goes for your Tickatus suggestion). If they go with a fixed mana cost increase they'll completely kill the card, And though I wouldn't mind it, I think just making it so it can't go face would be the best solution. This way the card could still see play in control decks that lack pings.
First of all, I'd like to thank people here for being civil, and that I don't see any "Lmao Bronze player shut up" comment here.
I love me a detailed balance suggestion, so I'd like to respond to this.
1. Tickatus
I'm just going to be blunt here about this one: I dislike your balance change suggestion for this card.
Why:
First of all, it changes pretty much nothing. The purpose of burning cards is to disrupt opponent's combo, and this does not change really anything. You mentioned something about using the spell nature of the ticket cards, but it only really benefits Rogue, Pen Flinger users, and Mage, probably (I don't think people really play Mozaki, Master Duelist). This change is useless for everyone else.
My alternative change: Keep its burning effect, Increase its Mana cost to 8, Increase its stats to 12/12.
Rationale:
I actually like gimmick-based cards, like Highkeeper Ra and The Ancient One, and Tickatus fits into this category. Disrupting combo cards exist way before Tickatus. Rin, the First Disciple also disrupts opponent's strategy. However, Tickatus's problem is that it is too easy to corrupt, and therefore, too easy to be played to burn cards, and be regenerated by Y'Shaarj, the Defiler. Increasing Mana to 8 makes Tickatus a LOT harder to corrupt, removing Twisting Nether and Enhanced Dreadlord's ability to corrupt it. This change will highly slow down the combo disruption and force Warlock to readjust their decks. The stats increase is to make up for the Mana increase, because stats-wise, the current Tickatus is fine.
2. Lord Jaraxxus
Your suggestion is reasonable, but I don't agree with it.
Why:
I'd like to think of Lord Jaraxxus's weapon as his way of directly participating in the match, so I like its high durability. I think its weapon is fine, because it is balanced by the fact that you pay 9 Mana to only gain 5 Armor and +3 Attack, which is very weak compared to other Hero cards. I am a Warlock player, and I understand that Lord Jaraxxus is a bit too powerful.
My alternative change: Keep its weapon 3/8, Increase its Mana cost to 10.
Rationale:
Lord Jaraxxus's role is always to outlast the opponent in the late game by slowly outvalue them with moderate, indefinite pressure. However, I think the card is a little bit too powerful for the cost, considering it can immediately be supported by Strongman. Its 9 Mana cost also allows for a famous Jaraxxus + Coin + Hero Power. So, by increasing its Mana cost to 10, Lord Jaraxxus will be forced to slow down and the aforementioned combo no longer works.
3. Sword of the Fallen
I like the durability reduction change, but I honestly dislike the Discover buff very much.
Why:
Discover allows Paladin to choose which Secret to put onto the battlefield. Right now, even random Secrets from the weapon are enough to jack up Paladin's win rate. Adding Discover will cause even worse disaster. I'd like to keep the Secret placement random.
4. Oh My Yogg!
I agree wholeheartedly with this suggestion.
Why:
Spells transformed into by Oh My Yogg! can sometimes be a useless, or even a self-damaging spell (if you plan to damage a minion, but it transforms into a buff spell). For 2 Mana, it might be fine, but for 1 Mana, it's outrageous.
5. Avenge
I agree with this suggestion, but I also have an alternative change.
My alternative change: With the same activation condition, give all your minions +1/+1 instead of +2/+2 to a single minion.
No rationale for this one. I'm fine with either change.
6. Crossroads Gossiper
Your suggestion is OK, but I don't agree with it.
Why:
+2/+1 will reduce its power, but IMO it will still be oppressive. It will still deal the same damage and will destroy the same minion (if you attack it with a minion). Crossroads Gossiper's problem is that its stats become gigantic simply because of one boost, and it can still get stronger. 6/4 or 5/5 is still huge stats for 3 Mana.
My alternative change: Keep the +2/+2 boost, reduce its stats to 2/3.
Rationale:
This change will boost Crossroads Gossiper to 4/5 for one activation, which is higher than average, but not outrageously higher. I think the problem of Crossroads Gossiper is not necessarily in its boost, but in its base stats. Health higher than Attack allows Crossroads Gossiper to stay longer on the battlefield to keep buffing itself from Secrets, since that's its purpose.
7. Refreshing Spring Water & Deck of Lunacy
I agree with this suggestion. With that being said, I'm skeptical about whether or not it would balance the card. I doubt it, but we'll just have to see about it.
8. Apexis Blast
This card is honestly fine. No changes needed.
Why:
No Minion Mage has been running Apexis Blast since before Forged in The Barrens expansion and the deck wasn't really that strong back then.
9. Jandice Barov
I highly disagree with your suggestion, even though it's fine.
Why:
I'd like to keep flavors of the card intact. For example, Mordresh Fire Eye is a 10 Mana 10/10 that deals 10 damage. Keep it that way. Don't change the damage dealing to 5, it will destroy the flavor. If you wanted a nerf, change something else like it hits minions only or it requires 20 Hero Power damage instead of 10. Same as Jandice Barov, it's a 5 Mana minion that summons two 5 cost minions. I'd like to keep it that way.
My alternative change: Which of the minions that die when they take damage is chosen randomly instead of chosen by player, and it's visible to the opponent.
Rationale:
Jandice Barov is oppressive because Rogue can easily abuse the secret choice. For example, the 5 cost minions summoned are Burning Blade Acolyte and Firework Elemental. Of course the Rogue will choose the former. This results in the choice almost means nothing and it ends up almost purely summoning 2 random 5 cost minions for 5 Mana. Another problem is the fact that not only its value is very high, the opponent is punished extremely badly simply because they choose wrong. This change will stop Rogue from abusing the restrictions of the card. The card will still be very powerful IMO, especially if it high rolls.
10. Pen Flinger
I don't agree with this suggestion.
Why:
Your suggestion doesn't really solve the problem IMO. I don't think damage output is the problem for Pen Flinger. Reducing its damage output would hurt the card. Efficient Octo-bot reduces the cost back to 1, keeping its flexibility.
My alternative change: Increase its Mana cost to 2 Mana, Increase its stats to 2/2, Increase its Battlecry damage to 2.
Rationale:
Pen Flinger's problem is not its damage output. Its problem is its flexibility. Being able to trigger Frenzy effects, enable Prize Plunderer, remove Divine Shield, etc. I'd actually like to keep its damage output, but reduce its flexibility. This change will keep the overall damage output (or even boost it, because it will require less spells to return it to the hand for the same damage, or the same amount of spells for double the damage), but reduce its flexibility.
11. The Watch Posts
I'm going to make it quick for this one. I think they should have 1 less attack, but 1 more Health, because they're built to survive, not to deal damage.
People need to build their decks more proactively and Tickatus keeps those who dont in check, You do realize you love a deck that does exactly the same thing right?, It is literally a reactive deck, Has little to no pressure on the board early/mid game, It runs 12+ removal spells, You encourage people to build more proactive decks while supporting one of the most reactive decks in the game right now, The deck wants to do nothing at all apart from corrupt Tickatus, Play it, Play Jaraxxus and Y'Shaarj, The rest of the game it is quite happy to just draw cards, Shuffle souls into its deck and keep removing your boards. You say it keeps those players in check that build decks designed to go 30+ mintues........No it is a deck designed to go 30+ minutes, It has all the removal and late game win conditions with Jaraxxus to go 30+ minutes it just does'nt need to thanks to Tickatus and Y'Shaarj.
"People need to builds their decks more proactively........Apart from Control Warlock" would be more true because make no mistake about it, Control Warlock is the most sucessful reactive deck in the meta right now, Hell it might be the only reactive deck in the meta right now. You could make Tickatus a neutral card and along with Y'Shaarj and put that combo in control warrior or control priest and please go ahead and tell me how a control warrior or control priest with Tickatus/Y'Shaarj would play any differently than control warlock plays.
Hell theres your solution, Just make Tickatus a neutral card and it solves all the issues, It means people can play other control decks like warrior and priest so control players are happy but it also means no games go 30+ minutes so everyone else is happy, No i dont honestly think that is the answer or ever likely to happen but it would make for more variety in terms of the decks you face atleast.
Flinger will probably see nerf in upcoming patch (card is played too much..),
Tikatus maybe in future patch but not now, and blast ofcourse will not.
Imagine stating Pen Flinger doesnt need a nerf in this meta and this much usage.
Also I'm still shocked Tickatus won't get nerfed this next week, it's absurd how broken that card is.
Next week is warlockstone with Tickatus being played every game 4x.
Pen Flinger is played my two classes and is not a power card in any one of them. Then yeah... dont need a nerf.
Tickatus is a bad card so... it would not be nerfed.
Pen Flinger is played my two classes and is not a power card in any one of them
Deck of Lunacy: only change the spell pool. The card is good only because the pool is too small in standard. So just make it wild spells. Then the consistency is gone and the card is garbage but still playable for fun
Mage + Paladin are the biggest threats right now in ladder guys.
1. I went up against a mage deck a few days ago, I was ahead on board (tickatus and 2 other minions) and had 4 cards in hand, while they had nothing and had to top deck. They topdecked a 1-mana Sprint, used it, played Solarian Prime, got Apexis Blast from one of the random spells, it hit one of my minions and killed it, and then somehow they developed 3 minions on their board, destroyed one of my minions, and ended up with a secret and 8 cards in their hand. I don't remember the exact sequencing, but I just know it's a bunch of random spells casted on me.
Again, THEY TOP DECKED AND GOT MORE THAN 10 CARDS IN HAND/BOARD COMBINED with a single draw... I haven't played hearthstone since that game because I knew If I ever played against a mage, something like that could happen.
2. Paladin has taken over the crown as king of aggro and I have no problem with that, but I feel like their weapon is too strong; Sword of the Fallen should be 4-mana, 1/4 instead of 2-mana 1/3. Giving it that extra durability is actually a buff, but making it cost 2 more mana is going to be nice to slow them down. Think about it, at 4-mana 1/4, it's a combination of 4 secrets and a light's justice put together, that's actually fair.
3. Incanter's Flow should be 4 mana. Seriously, I'm surprised that not a lot of people are talking about this card at all...
4. Deck of Lunacy. I don't know what they'll do to this card, but as long as it is what it is... I don't think I'm going to enjoy this game.
Cards that shouldn't be nerfed (whatsoever) would be Pen Flinger, Refreshing Spring Water, and Tickatus.
I know Pen Fling can be annoying to some people, but it's just 1 damage for 1 mana, like, come on guys...
Refreshing Spring Water is pretty much a pot of greed for spell mages, 0-mana draw 2, but it's only good if spell mages are good. So, if incanter's flow and deck of lunacy were nerfed..? Iunno how many ppl would even play spell mages anymore.
Tickatus? I remember this card used to be cost 5-mana, and it was pretty broken, at 6? You gotta play some pretty big stuff to corrupt this and then wait super late to find Y'sharj and mill your opponent again, but that's soooo slow. Requires such an awkward set-up of cards and even if you use it, all you're doing is milling them. It's only good against heavy control, but against Aggro, tickatus is extremely garbage. It's also hard for me to imagine the same card getting nerfed twice within 2 years.