I have witnessed a very peculiar interaction today: My opponent had played Murozond the Infinite, so I knew his secret was my Shenanigans. I had some Tickets in my deck, so I thought, well, I'm gonna use Grand Empress Shek'zara, so that the first Ticket will trigger the Shenanigans, but I will still get the other two. Instead, the draw stopped after the Ticket that turned into a Banana and the other two Tickets remained in my deck. That's in contradiction to all of the card texts as I understand them. Have I missed something?
well since you didnt have any more bananas in your deck you didnt draw any.
So you mean the way Shek'zara's draw is implemented is that she checks for more copies after the draw instead of drawing all copies of the chosen card at once? That is ... strange.
well since you didnt have any more bananas in your deck you didnt draw any.
So you mean the way Shek'zara's draw is implemented is that she checks for more copies after the draw instead of drawing all copies of the chosen card at once? That is ... strange.
How is it strange? That's literally the only way it could work. It discovers the card, then adds it to your hand, then draws extra. The game has to process each card in order, so it only does one at a time.
For example, imagine this scenario. You are at 1 health, your opponent has 2 Boom Bots on board, and you have a Knife Juggler.
You then use Shek'zara when you have a deck full of tickets, and it starts summoning. What it has to do is draw one Ticket, summon the bear, Juggler throws a knife, then if it hits a bot, it has to calculate whether the boom bot hits bear, juggler, or face.
This is important because otherwise you would dump 6 bears on the board at once, the knife juggler would get 6 damage off for free, and you'd have a full board to soak with. That would be great for you, but not really fair, I'm sure you'll agree.
well since you didnt have any more bananas in your deck you didnt draw any.
So you mean the way Shek'zara's draw is implemented is that she checks for more copies after the draw instead of drawing all copies of the chosen card at once? That is ... strange.
How is it strange? That's literally the only way it could work. [...]
They could program it like this:
x = discover a card for each x in the deck: draw x
Drawing would then trigger and resolve all associated events like summoning, turning into bananas and so on, without changing x.
The interaction here looks like it was build like this:
x = discover a card for each x in the deck draw x x = whatever the last card is now
It would be interesting to see what happens if you are at fatigue (so you don’t draw cards), add bears to your deck and play empress. Does the first bear resolve normally, will the second one turn into a banana and the last one will stay in the deck?
well since you didnt have any more bananas in your deck you didnt draw any.
So you mean the way Shek'zara's draw is implemented is that she checks for more copies after the draw instead of drawing all copies of the chosen card at once? That is ... strange.
How is it strange? That's literally the only way it could work. It discovers the card, then adds it to your hand, then draws extra. The game has to process each card in order, so it only does one at a time.
For example, imagine this scenario. You are at 1 health, your opponent has 2 Boom Bots on board, and you have a Knife Juggler.
You then use Shek'zara when you have a deck full of tickets, and it starts summoning. What it has to do is draw one Ticket, summon the bear, Juggler throws a knife, then if it hits a bot, it has to calculate whether the boom bot hits bear, juggler, or face.
This is important because otherwise you would dump 6 bears on the board at once, the knife juggler would get 6 damage off for free, and you'd have a full board to soak with. That would be great for you, but not really fair, I'm sure you'll agree.
I didn't phrase well what I was trying to say. I imagine every card being identified by a number, say, Tickets are 102 and Bananas are 36. Then in the way I would implement it, Shek'zara would initiate a loop that looks for cards with the id 102. Those then enter a stack that has to be processed by any other effect that references the draw. For example, Shenanigans would look for the first card in that stack and change its id to 36. But that happens after Shek'zara's loop has terminated. Then there would be other processes assigned to replacing the Tickets with Bears, drawing additional cards, resolving "come into play" type effects (like the Knife Jugglers in your example) and so on. But they all work with a stack of cards that has been initialized by Shek'zara independently. That's how I would code it.
I agree it is strange. you would think that because Grand Empress Shek'zara discovers the card and then draws all copies, that you would do just that. The way Shenanigans works is when any card is drawn, it is now a banana. therefore the fact that it was a ticket is irrelevant. a bit wonky of an interaction considering how the text is worded on Shek'zara but in its own way makes sense.
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MMMmmmmmm...Acceptable.
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I have witnessed a very peculiar interaction today: My opponent had played Murozond the Infinite, so I knew his secret was my Shenanigans. I had some Tickets in my deck, so I thought, well, I'm gonna use Grand Empress Shek'zara, so that the first Ticket will trigger the Shenanigans, but I will still get the other two. Instead, the draw stopped after the Ticket that turned into a Banana and the other two Tickets remained in my deck. That's in contradiction to all of the card texts as I understand them. Have I missed something?
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
well since you didnt have any more bananas in your deck you didnt draw any.
MMMmmmmmm...Acceptable.
its a logical flaw and you are right
So you mean the way Shek'zara's draw is implemented is that she checks for more copies after the draw instead of drawing all copies of the chosen card at once? That is ... strange.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
How is it strange? That's literally the only way it could work. It discovers the card, then adds it to your hand, then draws extra. The game has to process each card in order, so it only does one at a time.
For example, imagine this scenario. You are at 1 health, your opponent has 2 Boom Bots on board, and you have a Knife Juggler.
You then use Shek'zara when you have a deck full of tickets, and it starts summoning. What it has to do is draw one Ticket, summon the bear, Juggler throws a knife, then if it hits a bot, it has to calculate whether the boom bot hits bear, juggler, or face.
This is important because otherwise you would dump 6 bears on the board at once, the knife juggler would get 6 damage off for free, and you'd have a full board to soak with. That would be great for you, but not really fair, I'm sure you'll agree.
They could program it like this:
x = discover a card
for each x in the deck:
draw x
Drawing would then trigger and resolve all associated events like summoning, turning into bananas and so on, without changing x.
The interaction here looks like it was build like this:
x = discover a card
for each x in the deck
draw x
x = whatever the last card is now
It would be interesting to see what happens if you are at fatigue (so you don’t draw cards), add bears to your deck and play empress. Does the first bear resolve normally, will the second one turn into a banana and the last one will stay in the deck?
I didn't phrase well what I was trying to say. I imagine every card being identified by a number, say, Tickets are 102 and Bananas are 36. Then in the way I would implement it, Shek'zara would initiate a loop that looks for cards with the id 102. Those then enter a stack that has to be processed by any other effect that references the draw. For example, Shenanigans would look for the first card in that stack and change its id to 36. But that happens after Shek'zara's loop has terminated. Then there would be other processes assigned to replacing the Tickets with Bears, drawing additional cards, resolving "come into play" type effects (like the Knife Jugglers in your example) and so on. But they all work with a stack of cards that has been initialized by Shek'zara independently. That's how I would code it.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
I agree it is strange. you would think that because Grand Empress Shek'zara discovers the card and then draws all copies, that you would do just that. The way Shenanigans works is when any card is drawn, it is now a banana. therefore the fact that it was a ticket is irrelevant. a bit wonky of an interaction considering how the text is worded on Shek'zara but in its own way makes sense.
MMMmmmmmm...Acceptable.