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I agree, I think it is a horrible experience to have it played against. However, I guess you can argue Reno jackson has the same rock paper scissors feel of if you play aggro and they drop reno you loose and you feel like one card should not win the game. I do think Tickacus is a card that could become an issue in the future, but currently I think there are bigger threats in standard that need looking at like ramp paladin.
Rin, the First Disciple Did feel alot less toxic to play against.
What level are people playing at that so many games get to fatigue? Because that’s the only way Tickatus matters. In other situations you can just pretend the cards are at the bottom of your deck. I wish I was playing games to fatigue so often... It’s crazy to me that people are complaining about a tier 3/4 deck when Rogues are drawing their whole deck every game and Paladins have a card that probably has the highest winrate ever when drawn.
Tickatus - a card that requires a really awkward amount of set up, along with only burning 5 cards at a time.
Rin - a card that literally destroys the whole of the opponent's deck, along with providing a taunt minion and a number of stronger and more harder to remove options.
And you think the latter is a better designed card? Lol-wut?
It was actual maybe 1-2 years ago. This times has gone. Nowadays one Reno often isn't enough. On the other hand only 1 Tickatus can win you the game not speaking about more than 1
Oh for Christ Sake, is it really necessary for me to start gathering the myriad of statistical evidence out there that proves conclusively Mozaki Mage isn't getting anywhere on a regular basis? Are we really at the point where I need to refute that fucking MOZAKI MAGE is a t2 deck?
Fine, I'll be happy to. Just give me something that reasonably deliniates what a deck has to be to be a "tier 2" deck and I'll be happy to either show why Mozaki isn't, or show why the stat does not reflect tier 2 status.
Oh fuck, never mind. I just looked at your link. What a dishonest post. Hearthstone top decks separates the ENTIRE META into tier 1 and tier 2. It's literally top half and bottom half. So . . . yeah, when the choice is literally good decks and bad decks, I agree . . . Mozaki is a bad deck.
When you want to get serious about a traditional definition of tier 2, go to Tempo Storm which actually has a relevant system of rating tiers. They actually split the meta into tiers 1-5, at which point Mozaki falls squarely in tier 4 where it belongs.
So no, not a guess.
Oh, and by astonishing coincidence, guess what deck is sitting next to Mozaki Mage in tier 4? If you guessed Tick Lock (generously called "control lock" by TS) you get a six-pointed gold star.
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I think Tick is fine. I understand that it feels bad to have cards in your deck messed with, cards you want to play or cards you might need. It's a solid late game card that actually presents a threat to Control decks by denying them resources. Control players don't like being told "no" by anything, be it successful aggro strategies or mill strategies, so it makes people really salty when they can't do what they want to.
There *needs* to be cards like this to give an option to counter combos and present a win condition against control matchups.
edit: alright now that I've read the whole thread I have more thoughts.
A lot of people I saw comparing Tickatus to Coldlight Oracle and there's a reason those two aren't the same, and Coldlight being HoF'd and Tick being printed is not hypocrisy. Coldlight not only milled the opponent, but it also drew the Mill Player into answers because the draw effect was symmetrical. A Mill player would then draw into more bounce enablers and defensive cards, and was extremely difficult to play against. Tick just mills 5 cards the one time and is an 8/8 that provides no advantage when played. Players often make more Tickituses (Tickiti? Tickipeople?), but the amount of setup required to do so takes a long time and is easily punished via board presence. There's no real comparison, it's apples to oranges.
And other people are saying they preferred Rin, the First Disciple over Tick. Of course you did! Rin is really, really bad compared to Tick. First, Rin has to die. Next, you need to invest how much mana? 20? 25? In these mana sink cards that summoned dinky demons and ate board clears, then you played the big guy who ate the deck. But the deck gets ate so late in the game that it only eats like, 8 cards. Usually less. Tick is a faster version of that, they do essentially the same thing. What's nice about Rin is she gives you cards to play that aren't your precious board clears, so the mana sink is valuable, but the final effect, the talking point here, isn't good. It wasn't even that good in K&C, where Death Knights and Voidlord were kings.
If you're losing to Tick, I don't know what to tell you. Play more aggressively in the Control Matchup to threaten them and limit use of the button. Don't give them room to play their stupid do-nothing card. I don't usually play Control, I'm busy and work a lot during the day, so long control games are exhausting and unsatisfying to me. We're getting big news tomorrow and big changes a month later. Let's see where things go.
please don't bully my son
I should craft it, he looks awesome !!!
Il'gynoth
Problem with warlock is the whole corrupt package. Truth is warlock's class corrupt cards are by a THOUSAND MILES better than the other classes'. Unlike other classes, there's usually no possible recover from a Y'Shaarj warlock turn: another 5 cards burnt, board wiped, a 10/10, an 8/8 and possibly two more taunt 6/6.
Tickatus is badly designed on its own but it's the entire warlock's corrupt package that needs some rethinking IMO. People often seem to forget the 4-mana-destroy-3 little detail...
I agree, the real problem is Y'saarj, certainly not Tickatus.
Bringing back possibly a whole hand of super-powered cards, and having them only cost 0-mana. That's insane.
And you get a free 10/10 sticky minion to boot.
He was my candidate for gold craft, but I pulled him out of the pack, so I crafted golden the new NZoth instead.
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
Hm, there might be a way to avoid them playing Y'Shaarj... I can't seem to remember it. Is it, hmm, maybe kill them before they reach 10 mana?
Tickatus requires a whole deck built around enabling it to be viable, and even then its very slow. Illucia on the other hand requires NOTHING, she can be played in any priest deck, and is a much worse combo disruption than Tickatus could ever be (the priest gets rid of your key cards AND forces you to waste a turn playing his crap, this is a 1000x more tilting imo).
The only reason ppl are complaining about Tickatus and not Illucia its cuz Priest sucks rn, thats it. Once rotation hits and Priest gets a viable deck, ppl will see Illucia all the time cuz she can now be drawn and discounted by Insight.
Perception can be very selective I guess.
Came back to this thread after seeing the new core set for Warlock.
Yep. Warlock is the definitive Control class right now. Jaraxxus is an auto include now and so good for Control vs Control. And just more salt on the wound: Tickatus has yet to be nerfed. God I hope they do nerf it in the next patch because Warlock is kinda busted even as a baseline and good cards to corrupt Tickatus. Why play any other control deck now? F'kin hell...gonna have Cubelock nightmares again....
On top of all that, now Warlock is THE combo killer class, no other class gets a dirty rat (Don't say Vol'jin I tested it and It sucks for control decks, has to be combo'd with shit that spawns tokens for your opponent) . Fuck off Blizzard...Why does it have to be Warlock and why do you keep printing insane cards for Control Warlock? like dude they got the best hero power in game that draws you cards whenever you want. Are they blind?
If you only play aggro you’re probably wondering what Tickatus even is.
If you play combo or control you probably cringe every time you queue into Warlock.
The card is probably ‘balanced’ as it requires a top heavy deck that theoretically will be weak against aggro, but it’s so absurdly powerful against any deck that wants to go long outside of some mega-value generating decks that it single handedly dictates the meta in a huge way.
I personally think it needs changing so that it’s harder to activate and would fit more in a niche combo-Warlock deck. In it’s current state Blizzard have to be very careful with what they print for the class.
Who is this "tikiktakatus" that I keep reading about? Oooooh I see,after reading the replies I think you meant tumortus, I understand the confusion don't worry
ANYWAY
100% bad for the game, shitpiletus is a design mistake. I've seen so many people say "Oh JuSt PlAy AgGrEsSiVe DeKs" or "oH jUsT sMoRc HiM dOwN" and what they somehow can't see is that that's exactly the problem.
You are either:
forcing someone to not play a style of deck they enjoy (or, alternatively, lose the warlock matchup)
OR you force someone to play their deck in a way that 1) they don't enjoy 2)their deck can't really be played
(Btw there is NO way that any non SMORC/"faster midrange" deck can pressure a control lock that decided to randomly run shitheadtus to autowin the control mirror)
Honestly
BATTLECRY: remove the top 5 cards from your deck, CORRUPT: your opponent does the same
Would be the perfect solution, this way it STAYS a bitchmade toxic card that can win you games by highrolling like all other shitpile disrupion cards BUT you have to either sacrifice part of your deck too,giving it some well deserved risk/reward (maybe you know you have already drawn the cards you need) OR use it when you have no cards (because you lifetapped all game) to equalize fatigue
I don't want to end up writing an essay on this (totally could, there is SO much wrong with this card) so I'll end it here
PEACE
Your suggestion is pretty terrible and shows a lack of game design knowledge mostly because you dont appear to be taking game balance into account. In your suggestion, the card effectively becomes downside-only with no real benefit to the player. And you would have to lower his mana cost considerably to compensate such a flaw which would then make him much more powerful in the process. Which means your suggestion then counters itself.
But in fairness, your suggestion likely stems from a desire to make the card unplayable rather than balanced which is why it seems so bad.
in regards to your earlier paragraph, yes, the whole point of some cards is to force your opponent to change their playstyle to adapt to the game. This is standard for any card or even strategy game. If you cant deal with having to change your playstyle then this os why Tickatus is causing you such a problem and the problem doesnt lie with Tickatus here. You need to learn how to be adaptable in your games and accept that opponents arent going to just let you play your one little control deck or combo deck game plan without any problem.
I detest the “phrase” but “learn to play” is actually fairly accurate in some instances like here. Its not intended as an insult but advice - assuming that it also contains instruction on how to do that. In this particular instance, that advice is to practice adopting new game plans when things dont go your way and the opponent is forcing you to abandon Plan A. You need to have plans B and C ready to go at any moment.
Above is the description to the contrary what is intended of how Tickatus is unfair and unbalanced card design. Am I forced to change my play style? Must I 'adopt new game plans' ? The only play style here to 'adopt' is the 'game plan' which Blizzard prefers the agro-burn-aggressive one to keep the target audience, where you probably belong to, satisfied. It's called nudging. Tickatus is devised to control the desired fast pace of the game.
You sound like a wise guy contending for every problem there's a solution. And of course that calling out Tickatus by default means a 'lack of game design knowledge.'
You might want to reflect on why Tickatus was designed in the first place. But then we enter the politics of card design, to which I'm sure you've nothing to add.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
ok then
you do not seem to have read the part where I explain why it would be: weaker, but still not unplayable so here is the copypaste (also I would be,at that point, open to a mana cost buff) "Would be the perfect solution, this way it STAYS a bitchmade toxic card that can win you games by highrolling like all other shitpile disrupion cards BUT you have to either sacrifice part of your deck too,giving it some well deserved risk/reward (maybe you know you have already drawn the cards you need) OR use it when you have no cards (because you lifetapped all game) to equalize fatigue" this would mean a definite loss in power for sure...but still
1)warlock by nature is going to be deeper in fatigue and this can give them a way to "level the playing field" in an unfair way (they still got to play THEIR cards while the other guy did not) if they wait for fatigue which (in a control mirror) is GOING to happen. Also this way it's no longer a card you just put in any slower warlock deck and expect it to work for free, now you actually have to use your brain when you build a deck with him, kinda like gul'dan (my personal favourite warlock card)
2)you could still disrupt OTK decks (yes ik he's not THAT consistent at it but still)
3)if you know you only have garbage in the deck this is still playable as is and will very likely be a winning trade
so the first part of you reply is invalidated
now onto the second part
your "adapt to the game" is just a way of saying either play a different archetype that you don't enjoy or try to play your deck in a way that it straight up can't. That is like trying to play basketball with no hands, yes you can HIT the ball sometimes but you aren't going anywhere with that
to go into more detail: when you play any form of reactive deck you DO have different gameplans and I do agree that being able to change your strategy on the fly is important, if not core, to a card game, for example I liked facing DKrexxar because it changed the matchup, and therefore my gameplan from "I have to survive his earlygame BS" to "I have to do everything I can to outvalue his insane HP until fatigue squishes him" because both were things that my decks had the ability to do if piloted correctly.
Still said change of strategy ,though, needs to be applicable, you can TRY to hard pressure/SMORC your opponent but there are some decks that legit can't do that, at least not against another deck built around surviving,and DEFINETLY not in a short amount of time b4 they play their "fk you, I win" card , believe me, I teched in 2 mind blasts (and vargoth, I removed him later because aggro decks) in the quest priest deck I built recently but no matter how much you try, as a controlling deck it is near impossible to pressure another one in a short amount of time without changing your deck so much that it becomes another archetype...but that defeats the point. if given enough time SOMETIMES, MAYBE you can sneak in a win IF you play pressure cards like n'zoth that require buildup or MAYBE jaina can save your ass in fatigue but still if you are facing a...not horrifingly bad player that remains close to impossible
you can't just invalidate a playstyle because "fk you, I win" that is called killing diversity and it's a bad design philosophy, and this (OTK/mill/infinite and now inbredtus too, probably goes into mill) is the ONLY archetype that can even come close to doing that therefore it's toxic for the game, not too hard to understand
I don't fully understand why such a lengthy and boring discussion is evolving around a card that has very little impact on the game as it is.
Just look at the HSReplay statistics: there aren't that many decks running Tickatus in the first place. It's mostly Galakrond and Control Warlock that run it and they are only slightly above 50% winrate anyway.
Tickatus is an oddball card for sure, but apart from getting tilted from time to time when it works out for your opponent, it's just going to have an impact.
One activation is okay, but 2 is ridiculous. How can anyone find it balanced to wipe out 1/3 of your opponents deck.
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