⚙
Learn More
Cosmetics
Related Cards
Card Pools
✕
×
PopCard Settings
Click on the buttons to change the PopCard background.
Elements settings
Click on the button to hide or unhide popcard elements.
Click on the buttons to change the PopCard background.
Click on the button to hide or unhide popcard elements.
Yeah, the meta would be so sad if control decks had a win condition that doesn't revolve around let's go to fatigue for 40 min and actually had to do something atleast in control vs control matchups
Your "do something" is kill the warlock before he can drop tickatus. Better to say "don't play a control deck" at this point. Again, Rin existed, to do exactly what you say tickatus is doing. Except Rin actually had a cost, both in mana and tempo. Also it's funny that you get riled up against control decks that do nothing, yet control warlock with tickatus is the very definition of doing nothing, just clearing the board and healing until you can play tickatus and win, not immediatly but by continuing to do nothing but defend until you opponent go to fatigue.
Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them
Well yes but no, it has to be a win condition that is also not vulnerable to losing 10 cards in your deck on turn 10.
Well yes but no, it only means that X control deck will lose against tickatuslock and still can still win against aggro,mirrors and against other control decks that are not warlock.It's called a bad matchup.Don't forget that aggro exists and SMORC will still destroy controlock in most cases
Yes, people are complaining that a single card makes you instawin a matchup. Controlock works as well as any other classes against aggro, if not better because you do not have to put any threat in your deck. You just have to put tickatus and y'shaarj, (and maybe rustwix if you're fancy, but honestly you don't need him) and then you can fill the rest of the deck with as many removal, healing and taunts you want. Controlock do not have to make any sacrifice except for a card slot to have an enormous advantage against other control matchups, in the most unhealthy, random and frustrating way. I miss Rin
I'm gonna put my hands up real fast and make a quick disclaimer:
I'm only here because I like discussing card/game design and I'm an advocate for what Tickatus as a card stands for; I don't play Warlock and I haven't enjoyed playing control(?) since Cube Hunter rotated.
That being said, the only person I saw addressing me directly, Carfusso, you're alright. I do wish you'd refrain from using some specific words when you make jabs at Tick, but I'll also say be as unkind to him as you want, he's a playing card. Just please be a little gentler for your readers, you never know who'll see that.
Okay! I certainly agree that Fatigue is a great mechanic, and I do really fondly remember the card draw decision points back when it was more relevant to me as a player, it really felt skill intensive when I was making decisions. The more cards they make that cause Fatigue to matter less, the slightly crankier I get that a cool and skill challenging mechanic is being overwritten. I will say however that there does appear to be a huge bias against mill as a concept/mechanic that you have, that would make this conversation more difficult.
I simply don't have the power or time to convince anybody to change their minds about anything, I simply have my opinions and like to share them. Perhaps Tickatus being a card that packs as much power as it does is an issue, and the cards that exist around Tick certainly offer to pull or push him to a greater power level. But is there really no salvation for this?
I don't want to tell anybody to do anything, and I refuse to glean any judgements about skill because of negative reactions to a card. Highlander Druid can shuffle what, 14? 18? Cards into your deck by playing and copying Ysera Unleashed. So there's at least 1 deck you can pick if you like control and hate Tick.
We'll be seeing the biggest changes in Hearthstone at the end of the month. I don't really feel Tick is a problem enough card that they'd change him until after Forged in the Barrens comes out if he continues posing an issue, though that's the real crux of my problem with stat-based arguments in this discussion; Tickatus isn't a problem in the case of win rates. He's played in a low tier-2 deck, sitting with all of the other control decks in that tier. The reason this is isn't even really related to Tick at all, it's because aggro (and one midrange list) decks are all at the tip-top, and speed shuts down greedy Galakrond Warlock.
There's an undeniable feelbad about losing cards in your deck, and I understand better that a larger part of the issue is that it's sourced from one card. I do feel that it's polarized when we get to this point, because it's either 1 card, multiple cards, or no cards. I'm sure most people who hate Tick would advocate for their being no cards that do this, which I understand. In my opinion, as someone who wants mill as an answer to control decks, it's probably better if it's just Tickatus. It would be way worse if a person was running anywhere from 2 to 5 mill cards in their deck, assuming Blizzard wanted it so bad they made a few cards to support it.
And as a final aside about LoR, a game I absolutely adore; currently a control deck is running around being very successful, using Lissandra and Trundle to generate multiple 8+ cost units to either threaten lethal with powerful trample/overwhelm units, or beat control matchups by cheating the Watcher out of their hand somehow. It uses board wipes and attack reduction effects to stay alive and control the board in the mean time. It's about as controlly as the game gets, in my opinion, and I also play casually. If anybody's curious, I play Deep Sea Monsters with Nautilus because big numbers make me smile.
please don't bully my son
I'm sick and tired of people assuming I'm doing something wrong as a Highlander Druid against Tickatus decks, I dunno where this notion is coming from. A normal Tickatus deck isn't much of a problem (such as Galakrond and Prime Warlock) but when you come across these fuckwhads with x2 Felosophy and Demonic Studies that make these matches so one sided I might as well concede from the start. It's like the time when Freeze Mage was just countered by Control Warrior, only alot worse because anything you do doesn't matter in the end.
I can handle bad matchups. That's a given.
What pisses a majority of us slow deck players off is the people who do build their deck around Tickatus that is so unfair to face against. How is it fair that one single card that can be copied multiple times (something that already pisses most people off) just sais "no you can't have fun with your deck"? how can you possibly justify this? there isn't a single archetype other than this that invalidates not one but several other archetypes.
There is a very nice new video on NoHandsGamer's YT channel about why low rank players lost to Tickatus, and he shows an example of how to beat it with a slow control deck. Just be more proactive, if your control deck cannot put pressure it's not good enough, or if it beats aggro all the time, just accept the bad matchup to tickatus. Tickatus lock is in a bad spot right now, losing to most meta decks.
That being said, the only person I saw addressing me directly, Carfusso, you're alright. I do wish you'd refrain from using some specific words when you make jabs at Tick, but I'll also say be as unkind to him as you want, he's a playing card. Just please be a little gentler for your readers, you never know who'll see that.
As I told the other guy that responded, I am aware of the fact that my "form" is quite rough because of...let's just say... "philosophical" takes on the matter... so I'm sorry if anyone got offended, my point was not to insult anyone but rather to get my point across on my distaste for specific things.
Even though I can't see how me insulting a card (that deserves all the hate it can get) could ever offend actual people I will consider starting to use [REDACTEDTUS] to try to get my points across (I refuse to address that abomination as a card in this game)
Okay! I certainly agree that Fatigue is a great mechanic, and I do really fondly remember the card draw decision points back when it was more relevant to me as a player, it really felt skill intensive when I was making decisions. The more cards they make that cause Fatigue to matter less, the slightly crankier I get that a cool and skill challenging mechanic is being overwritten. I will say however that there does appear to be a huge bias against mill as a concept/mechanic that you have, that would make this conversation more difficult.
Well, you said it yourself...you are trying to defend a very widely hated playstyle so...
I simply don't have the power or time to convince anybody to change their minds about anything, I simply have my opinions and like to share them.
Just like you are never going to convince me, I'm not going to convince you and I'll never have anything against sharing an opinion if backed up by arguments (like you did).
Perhaps Tickatus being a card that packs as much power as it does is an issue, and the cards that exist around Tick certainly offer to pull or push him to a greater power level. But is there really no salvation for this?
Yes, the salvation is making him always discard from your deck anyway, he wouldn't lose that much power as he could still disrupt combos (you know...these decks are SO much fun that you don't even need your deck to beat them) AND you could still play him after you emptied your deck in control mirrors (since, as a warlock, you WILL be deeper in fatigue than your average control deck) to equalize fatigue in an unfair way (you know...you PLAYED your cards and they did not) so the powerlevel would only change in the sense that he would no longer be an autowin vs control decks that just gets played whenever it's purple
I don't want to tell anybody to do anything, and I refuse to glean any judgements about skill because of negative reactions to a card. Highlander Druid can shuffle what, 14? 18? Cards into your deck by playing and copying Ysera Unleashed. So there's at least 1 deck you can pick if you like control and hate Tick.
Fair point in standard, still the card ULTRALIMITS the options available to 2 decks (prime warlock is another one) anything else gets run over. (I will limit my assumptions to this since I play wild so I'm not too well versed in the standard meta, I am open to admit a mistake if this is incorrect)
We'll be seeing the biggest changes in Hearthstone at the end of the month. I don't really feel Tick is a problem enough card that they'd change him until after Forged in the Barrens comes out if he continues posing an issue, though that's the real crux of my problem with stat-based arguments in this discussion; Tickatus isn't a problem in the case of win rates. He's played in a low tier-2 deck, sitting with all of the other control decks in that tier. The reason this is isn't even really related to Tick at all, it's because aggro (and one midrange list) decks are all at the tip-top, and speed shuts down greedy Galakrond Warlock.
This is exactly my problem/fear I don't think the card is OP I do not think it will ever break the "OP level winrates" but there IS a reason for it...aggro decks kind of destroy it, however this only encourages polarizing cards like this where playing the game in certain matchups becomes almost a formality
There's an undeniable feelbad about losing cards in your deck, and I understand better that a larger part of the issue is that it's sourced from one card. I do feel that it's polarized when we get to this point, because it's either 1 card, multiple cards, or no cards. I'm sure most people who hate Tick would advocate for their being no cards that do this, which I understand. In my opinion, as someone who wants mill as an answer to control decks, it's probably better if it's just Tickatus. It would be way worse if a person was running anywhere from 2 to 5 mill cards in their deck, assuming Blizzard wanted it so bad they made a few cards to support it.
There are WAY healthier ways than mill to keep control decks in check, your cube hunter is one of the best examples of that, this way you have a CLEARLY winning matchup BUT it's not a basically automatic win
And as a final aside about LoR, a game I absolutely adore; currently a control deck is running around being very successful, using Lissandra and Trundle to generate multiple 8+ cost units to either threaten lethal with powerful trample/overwhelm units, or beat control matchups by cheating the Watcher out of their hand somehow. It uses board wipes and attack reduction effects to stay alive and control the board in the mean time. It's about as controlly as the game gets, in my opinion, and I also play casually. If anybody's curious, I play Deep Sea Monsters with Nautilus because big numbers make me smile.
This is not meant to criticize you so dw, I'm just sharing (again) my opinion
This is exactly the reason I don't play much LoR, all the lategame winconditions in that game are "fk you, I win" style cards with the only way to beat them being getting YOUR bs to work first and NO true way to react to it
You are insulting an inanimate fucking object [sic]. I don’t think it offends people but it makes you look childish and people are less likely to take your points seriously as it comes across like some petty school yard stuff.
Look controlock right now is in a bad spot in standard, as stated by a lot of people in this thread, while in wild is only played regurarly in renolocks that also get wrecked by mill rogues and a good chunk of aggro decks, with favorable matchups only against priests (and we are talking about a 55% winrate at best especially in razakus priest case) and otk\slow value decks. It's not devastating the meta its only keeping excessively greedy or slow control decks in check. If people can't play their homebrew control\value decks is not beacause of warlock but mostly beacause of face decks that SMORC the opponent to death by turn 5. If a control deck is meta it won't be destroyed by one really shitty matchup. The card itself fits in decks that are already limited by their own big cards, its not like every warlock is playing it. Its surely frustrating but its not this boogeyman that people are talking about here. Also remeber that the game is going to change a lot in a few weeks so we can't be sure if it is going to be in a tier 1, 2 or 3 deck, if it is going to shape the meta or disappear for some time. A nerf now will kill the card. For the " i miss Rin" it's true that it was slower and less frustrating, but hearthstone changed a lot from that time. Most classes now can produce value and cards out of thin air, and decks contain more random than ever. So if the It'S RaNdOm your issue at this point you'll be better off playing another game cause hearthstone seems to have taken the random direction and i doubt our whining will change it
I have never encountered a control warlock that did not play (and win because of) Tickatus, so I would challenge the assertion that "not every warlock is playing it". And it's not because the deck is not tier one that it's not cancer. The discussion is not about if the deck is balanced or not. It's about tickatus being one of the stupidest card ever printed. Warlock decks that run tickatus are not tier 1, ok. But as you said, it's because the meta is all aggro and midrange, so it's in the same spot as most other control decks for that matter. But it gets to be a good matchup against any control deck just because of 1 stupid card that doesn't leave any room for play or counterplay from the opponent. It's not "punishing greedy slow decks" when it can delete 10 cards off the deck by turn 10. If your definition of a "greedy slow" control deck is a deck that has not killed its opponent by turn 10, you have a pretty warped conception of what is greedy and slow.
You are insulting an inanimate fucking object [sic]. I don’t think it offends people but it makes you look childish and people are less likely to take your points seriously as it comes across like some petty school yard stuff.
In a perfect world people are supposed to read something and only focus on WHAT is written instead of HOW and NOT care about the language/form used but rather focus on the concepts expressed. (Of course by HOW I mean in terms of form , obviously what you say still needs to be understandable but that should be the only requirement)
Naturally said concept needs to not be "hidden/implied" as that would defeat the purpose.
I understand that this is likely even beyond wishful thinking as we are "trained" by...everything and everyone to apply this wrong concept of "how it looks/sounds > what it's saying" and as sad as it may be that's the truth...people prefer better form to better concepts and this will forever bug me
Ok so let's make some clear arguments here:
To be clear i said that is limited to that kind of deck. Its not like every single warlock out there plays it and is capable of reusing it multiple times. In most cases it will be played once and 5 cards are gone, worst common case scenario 10 cards (mostly wild here where is easier with brann). i remember back in this thread a guy that posted a pic of a ticktatus with a Sathrovarr on it whining that he lost 20 cards. I mean if you play a deck that sits still for ten turns without playing any threat it's no wonder that you lost, you've lost basically to any deck on the ladder or are on the point of losing. A nerf would be needed if this card was played in midrange decks where it screws with control matchups or cheated out before turn 7 with the mana tricks that warlock did for years. It's a tool against control. If you want to win against controlock put pressure on him so he needs to clear or atleast to waste his mana on something that is not a Ticktatus. Control decks can do something after turn 5 i think
I mean this is a bit subjective i'd say. There are many cancer decks out there but in Hearthstone history i'd say that not even half of them got nerfed. Why? beacause nerfs are aimed to decks that have a high winrate and almost no counter. Everyone here can say some deck is cancer but those cancer decks are some player's favourites, and he in turn hates another deck. Also this poll is about a card that may or may not need balancing so yes it is about balance and that balance comes from the matchups and winrate of deck where it's played. We can have a list with tons of cards that goes for the title of stupidest ever printed
So the card is broken but it doesn't carry its archetype to tier 1? it's strong against control but it's what is meant to be. You confirmed that the meta is punishing already control decks. There were metas in the past where midrange was outmatched, aggro existed only as face and no token decks but it was never one card that did the damage and it's the same this time, control has its turn of being meh now. Also control is alive and well in wild especially after diamond 10. It doesn't leave room for counterplay after the damage is done but you can minimize that by doing good mulligans and putting pressure in order to delay ticktatus
I never said that greedy means opponent alive at turn 10. Greedy means that by turn ten you have full hand and you can't pose any threat whatsoever in 10 turns. It's not about winning by turn 10 but it's about trying to do the best you can with your deck based on what your opponent is playing. Sometimes you lose anyway sometimes it works that's how bad matchups works. Control decks play the game posing threats while clearing the board, or atleast have some cards that push them to winning. Ticktaus alone can avoid the old control warrior vs control warrior we all die beacause of fatigue to be dominant, and if i am not wrong people were crying about that too maybe more than this card
In a perfect world people would also just express their opinions and concepts without stooping to pointless name calling. It reflects upon the author because it suggests that they are unable to voice their ideas in a civilized manner, unable to separate opinions and dislike.
Tickatus is a few lines of code, pixels on a screen. Calling it petty names is immature and adds nothing to the discussion.
And you are exactly proving my point: trying to evaluate someone's opinion or even personality/maturity by the way they express it rather than by what they are actually saying is exactly the problem AND an extremely short sighted narrow minded approach to a discussion AND a plague that is infecting our society. A correct opinion is correct no matter the way it is expressed.
The only possibile VALUABLE counterargument you MAY try to bring up is being offensive to other people...still I never once offended actual people so....nope, goodbye.
Final note:
Now I KNOW that you (or someone else reading this post in disagreement with my views on the matter) will bring this up so it fills my mind, heart and soul with joy to shut you up even prior to you responding (as I despise people that try to do this from the bottom of my heart) :
You are about to try to discredit my previous statement using an empty argument you """""""found""""""" using stuff I never said but that you wrongly believe I implied SO......
I am by no means implying that MY opinion that I espressed in any one of the posts I made is factually correct, all I'm saying is that ANY statement needs to be read/heard with your mind set to WHAT it is saying, rather than HOW and if said piece of writing happens to be correct you have no choice but to acknowledge that. Refer to the second paragraph before bringing "being offensive" into the mix.
Are you trying to say word choice doesn't matter? Because... wow... I mean you are entitled to your opinion and are allowed to be wrong, but seriously? Reading between the lines and little social cues are all we have to go on, since we are just a few lines of text to each other. The way you CHOOSE to say something is as important as what you say. Information (even opinions are information) is only as valuable it's source so you how you choose to present yourself in going to be how we evaluate if what you say is worth reading.
I am not trying to fix you; that is not my job. It us just what you said there goes so far against what I believe to be true that it hurt my brain.
There is a lot to said about Tickatus but the card itself is not "bad for the game" what Tickatus do is something that a lot of people ask in the past. Destroy your oponent deck is not a wincondition by itself unless the enemy deck depends on what is hidden there to win. A deck that only has a reason to go on because of 1 card or 1 combo. Usually decks that can win in general without keycards are not affected by Tickatus. Stuff like C Thun that has actually not that much counter (except winning faster) will hate Tickatus but is not like you should build your deck around ONE CARD and if you do and this card counters you pretty hard...is not that something good?.
Let me put one example: Demon Hunter combo. How you win again this deck if you are a control deck without tools to mess with the hand or the deck? Pull the minion from the deck is not that easy because this deck runs a lot of minions, is not even easy pull it from the hand. When the game extend enough you are literally force to not play minions. Cards that destroy cards on the deck or the hand are needed to prevent this kind of decks to suprime control decks. YEAH this kind of cards also hurt control decks but is a prize to pay. I still remeber when Paladin OTK on Rastakan was very popular and you were force to run certain cards and still was not enough and it was very stupid lose to Shirvallah even when you try to tech the best you an against the deck.
If any the actual problem is that Warlock has literally all the options to clear the board and win being the last man standing with a billion of card generators. That is not Tickatus. Being able to res or generate your demons that generate more demons and eventually refill your deck with 10 Primes or more is the actual reason why Warlock is so strong against control. [card]Envoy Rustwix[/card] Seems 10 times more problematic to me.