Arguably it is a bug, as what happens in-game does not agree with the card text. They should change the text to something like "summon an 8/8 rattlegore" and on the 8/8 rattlegore it says "summon a 7/7 rattlegore" etc.
Not as elegant but at least it's accurate, and you should never just have to "know" how cards behave, particulalry in such a simple example as Rattlegore.
The game is full of stuff like this though, so probably best just to add it as a "lesson learned" and move on!
Arguably it is a bug, as what happens in-game does not agree with the card text. They should change the text to something like "summon an 8/8 rattlegore" and on the 8/8 rattlegore it says "summon a 7/7 rattlegore" etc.
Not as elegant but at least it's accurate, and you should never just have to "know" how cards behave, particulalry in such a simple example as Rattlegore.
The game is full of stuff like this though, so probably best just to add it as a "lesson learned" and move on!
Exactly, this is one of the most stupid ones. Almost as bad as the Yogg bug.
It's not a bug, it makes perfect sense if you know how changed stats work. So nameless one becomes a copy of rattlegore (initially 9/9) but then his effect changes the stats to 4/4. This doesn't mean rattlegore died 5 times, it just had the initial stats changed from 9/9 to 4/4.
Rattlegore always count itself as a 9/9 even when copied with less status, if you silence the 4/4 copy it will become a 9/9 for example, that’s why it turned into a 8/8
While not intuitive, it actually makes sense, and rattlegore would not be playable if it wasn't like that. Imagine a 0-8 minion summoned if he was killed while under Wave of Apathy, for example.
The problem is it should state "summon a x/x rattlegore" (-1-1 per turn triggered)".
Another example is that jades golems which are returned to hand do not trigger the jade count. Lesson learned, as mentioned.
So with «initial stats changed from 9/9 to 4/4» it should come back as a 3/3...That’s the only thing that makes sense.
no, the card text is just misleading and the card works as intended... you want the card text to say something like "summon a new version of this card with -1/-1 deducted from this card's initial stats. these are the new initial stats of the newly summoned version. the new version has the exact same card text.", but this is not how hearthstone works... if a text is to long it is shortened to fit 3 rows. since this is a digital card game everything else gets explained through gameplay.
an individual text for each version like "summon a 7/7 rattlegore" is also misleading, bc the new 7/7 is still a rattlegore and one would assume the 7/7 would summon a new 7/7 like a dreadsteed on steroids before the first deathrattle triggers... no matter how you write it you need to play the card to really know what it does
Arguably it is a bug, as what happens in-game does not agree with the card text. They should change the text to something like "summon an 8/8 rattlegore" and on the 8/8 rattlegore it says "summon a 7/7 rattlegore" etc.
Not as elegant but at least it's accurate, and you should never just have to "know" how cards behave, particulalry in such a simple example as Rattlegore.
The game is full of stuff like this though, so probably best just to add it as a "lesson learned" and move on!
But that's still not how the card works, if you increase it's base stats via Bobs Tell a Story (Give a friendly minion +2/+2 for this run.) for example it would resummon a 10/10 because Tell a Story increases it's base stats (You can see this because his numbers aren't green)
So with «initial stats changed from 9/9 to 4/4» it should come back as a 3/3...That’s the only thing that makes sense.
Look at the image I attached. I hovered over my opponent's rattlegore and it shows 9 mana 1/1 that's because I killed it 8 times before. If it was summoned by Barnes for example, it would show 9 mana 9/9 and under the card a text saying that Barne's effect changed its stats to 1/1 which means killing it will summon an 8/8 while in my actual game killing it wouldn't summon anything since the cards reads 9 mana 1/1.
Arguably it is a bug, as what happens in-game does not agree with the card text. They should change the text to something like "summon an 8/8 rattlegore" and on the 8/8 rattlegore it says "summon a 7/7 rattlegore" etc.
And if Blizzard changes the card text to what you said, someone will make a thread saying his opponent played the Nameless One on a 9/9 Ratlegore and doesn't understand why his 4/4 Ratlegore says "Deathrattle: Summon a 8/8 Rattlegore." instead of "Deathrattle: Summon a 3/3 Rattlegore."
So, it's not about the card text, but how the minion works and changing the way it works will make him useless since dealing with him will be as easy as reducing his attack to 1 and then kill him.
I actually don't care how he works in practice and this ins't supposed to be about nerfing a card (I really like how he currently works), but his card text should be accurate and reflect what he does in play and it's clearly not currently the case (obviously this should apply to all cards).
As it stands the card text says "Resummon this with -1/-1". As it is written any non-rattlegore card which acquires this deathrattle should resummon itself, not Rattlegore. If you reduce his attack to 1 and kill him he should re-summon with 0 attack (and conversely if he's buffed to x/x he should come back as a x-1/x-1).
With the alternate deathrattle text I proposed (and used in your example) the 4/4 Nameless one now says it will summon an 8/8 Rattlegore (and that is in fact what will happen when the faceless one dies), then this makes perfect sense and no one will be surprised when that happens. I agree there might be some lack of clarity regarding the fact that the next rattlegore (and so on) would have a deathrattle but there must be some way this could be accomodated.
That is the only logical interpretation of the card as it is currently written (imo).
p.s. his voice lines should also get higher pitched as he gets smaller untill you have a tiny Baby-Groot-like Rattlegore!
If you hover over any minion, it will show the base stats and then any adjustments/enchantments underneath. Rattlegore’s deathrattle is always -1/-1 from its base stats - the 8/8 Rattlegore that is summoned from the original is actually a different minion, it’s base stats are 8/8 and not 9/9 with a -1/-1 enchantment, as you will see if you hover your mouse over the card, and this carries on down the chain. Rattlegore is effectively 9 different minions. The Nameless One becomes a 9/9 Rattlegore (assuming the Rattlegore on board is the original 9/9) with an enchantment to make it a 4/4, so it will still create an 8/8 when it dies because it’s base stats are actually 9/9. Similarly if you target a Rattlegore part way down the deathrattle chain, say a 6/6, you will create a 4/4 copy of a Rattlegore with 6/6 base stats, and get a 5/5 out of its deathrattle.
The card is indeed worded correctly, but I do understand how it could cause confusion. Unfortunately if they made the description more detailed, it would probably be even more likely to confuse people.
If you hover over any minion, it will show the base stats and then any adjustments/enchantments underneath. Rattlegore’s deathrattle is always -1/-1 from its base stats - the 8/8 Rattlegore that is summoned from the original is actually a different minion, it’s base stats are 8/8 and not 9/9 with a -1/-1 enchantment, as you will see if you hover your mouse over the card, and this carries on down the chain. Rattlegore is effectively 9 different minions. The Nameless One becomes a 9/9 Rattlegore (assuming the Rattlegore on board is the original 9/9) with an enchantment to make it a 4/4, so it will still create an 8/8 when it dies because it’s base stats are actually 9/9. Similarly if you target a Rattlegore part way down the deathrattle chain, say a 6/6, you will create a 4/4 copy of a Rattlegore with 6/6 base stats, and get a 5/5 out of its deathrattle.
The card is indeed worded correctly, but I do understand how it could cause confusion. Unfortunately if they made the description more detailed, it would probably be even more likely to confuse people.
None of what you described agrees with the card description which is simply "Resummon this with -1/-1" (no mention of base stats, no implication that its a different minion being summoned etc.). In the example you gave using the text as it is written on the card, the nameless one should resummon itself as a 3/3 ("this" being the nameless one, and -1/-1 to give the 3/3 stat line).
Just for clarity - I understand how it works (and why it works that way), but that is not how the card is written.
Going back to my original suggestion it would (imo) make more sense if it said "Summon an 8/8 Rattlegore" and that 8/8 Rattlegore had a deathrattle which says "Summon a 7/7 Rattlegore". It's much more intuitive and you know the stats of the minion being summoned without having to hover over anything. You would still need to see the card in action once to know for sure that the next Rattlgore also summoned more Rattlegores, but there must be a way of wording it concisely that isn't as bad and confusing as the way the card is currently written.
edit: Just to add - on mobile hovering over to see stuff isn't ideal either.
Here's the thing: resummoning Rattlegore with -1/-1 almost never makes sense. Kill a 9/1 Rattlegore, and it doesn't attempt to revive as a 8/0 Rattlegore. If you kill it with damage, if the deathrattle was actually -1/-1, would revive a Rattlegore with a negative health. And already, most of us understand this.
So it's not actually literal text, but instead it's just shorthand. It conveys the 9/9, 8/8, 7/7, 6/6, etc. chain, while being succinct on the card. The game will take care of things.
It isn't a bug when Rattlegore follows the chain instead of the shorthand, since this is clearly how the card was build and intended, and we onhere don't have to waste our time arguing about RAW and card text like folks might do in other games, since the Hearthstone engine does everything.
Except we do, because some people are incapable of critical thinking and need everything spelled out for them.
Put the mouse over the 4/4 copy it will show the real stats, thats what you jave track of, not other thing, it makes pergect sense if you remember the diference beteeen him and and actual card which's deathrattle of effect depends on its current stats (aka stats on board) like Recurring Villain
A mage got lucky and got The Nameless One off a spell and played this on my 9/9 Rattlegore.
Fine I thought as it’s only 4/4. It will come back as a 3/3. No big deal.
But when I killed his copy it came back as a 8/8???? Is this a bug?
Not a bug. The actual size of the rattlegore doesn't matter for the death rattle, it's all about which version along the chain it is.
Arguably it is a bug, as what happens in-game does not agree with the card text. They should change the text to something like "summon an 8/8 rattlegore" and on the 8/8 rattlegore it says "summon a 7/7 rattlegore" etc.
Not as elegant but at least it's accurate, and you should never just have to "know" how cards behave, particulalry in such a simple example as Rattlegore.
The game is full of stuff like this though, so probably best just to add it as a "lesson learned" and move on!
If you hover over your nameless one, it will say rattlegore, but it will have a buff "stats changed to 4/4".
Similarly, casting Subdue on a rattlegore and killing it does summon a new rattlegore.
Exactly, this is one of the most stupid ones. Almost as bad as the Yogg bug.
It's not a bug, it makes perfect sense if you know how changed stats work. So nameless one becomes a copy of rattlegore (initially 9/9) but then his effect changes the stats to 4/4. This doesn't mean rattlegore died 5 times, it just had the initial stats changed from 9/9 to 4/4.
Rattlegore always count itself as a 9/9 even when copied with less status, if you silence the 4/4 copy it will become a 9/9 for example, that’s why it turned into a 8/8
So with «initial stats changed from 9/9 to 4/4» it should come back as a 3/3...That’s the only thing that makes sense.
While not intuitive, it actually makes sense, and rattlegore would not be playable if it wasn't like that. Imagine a 0-8 minion summoned if he was killed while under Wave of Apathy, for example.
The problem is it should state "summon a x/x rattlegore" (-1-1 per turn triggered)".
Another example is that jades golems which are returned to hand do not trigger the jade count. Lesson learned, as mentioned.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
no, the card text is just misleading and the card works as intended... you want the card text to say something like "summon a new version of this card with -1/-1 deducted from this card's initial stats. these are the new initial stats of the newly summoned version. the new version has the exact same card text.", but this is not how hearthstone works... if a text is to long it is shortened to fit 3 rows. since this is a digital card game everything else gets explained through gameplay.
an individual text for each version like "summon a 7/7 rattlegore" is also misleading, bc the new 7/7 is still a rattlegore and one would assume the 7/7 would summon a new 7/7 like a dreadsteed on steroids before the first deathrattle triggers... no matter how you write it you need to play the card to really know what it does
But that's still not how the card works, if you increase it's base stats via Bobs Tell a Story (Give a friendly minion +2/+2 for this run.) for example it would resummon a 10/10 because Tell a Story increases it's base stats (You can see this because his numbers aren't green)
Look at the image I attached. I hovered over my opponent's rattlegore and it shows 9 mana 1/1 that's because I killed it 8 times before. If it was summoned by Barnes for example, it would show 9 mana 9/9 and under the card a text saying that Barne's effect changed its stats to 1/1 which means killing it will summon an 8/8 while in my actual game killing it wouldn't summon anything since the cards reads 9 mana 1/1.
And if Blizzard changes the card text to what you said, someone will make a thread saying his opponent played the Nameless One on a 9/9 Ratlegore and doesn't understand why his 4/4 Ratlegore says "Deathrattle: Summon a 8/8 Rattlegore." instead of "Deathrattle: Summon a 3/3 Rattlegore."
So, it's not about the card text, but how the minion works and changing the way it works will make him useless since dealing with him will be as easy as reducing his attack to 1 and then kill him.
I actually don't care how he works in practice and this ins't supposed to be about nerfing a card (I really like how he currently works), but his card text should be accurate and reflect what he does in play and it's clearly not currently the case (obviously this should apply to all cards).
As it stands the card text says "Resummon this with -1/-1". As it is written any non-rattlegore card which acquires this deathrattle should resummon itself, not Rattlegore. If you reduce his attack to 1 and kill him he should re-summon with 0 attack (and conversely if he's buffed to x/x he should come back as a x-1/x-1).
With the alternate deathrattle text I proposed (and used in your example) the 4/4 Nameless one now says it will summon an 8/8 Rattlegore (and that is in fact what will happen when the faceless one dies), then this makes perfect sense and no one will be surprised when that happens. I agree there might be some lack of clarity regarding the fact that the next rattlegore (and so on) would have a deathrattle but there must be some way this could be accomodated.
That is the only logical interpretation of the card as it is currently written (imo).
p.s. his voice lines should also get higher pitched as he gets smaller untill you have a tiny Baby-Groot-like Rattlegore!
Am I the only one that wants to know how the mage got a The Nameless One?
Was it like, Trick Totem casting Dragon's Hoard into it, or Puzzle box... or...?
Or The Amazing Reno perhaps xD i'm curious too
If you hover over any minion, it will show the base stats and then any adjustments/enchantments underneath. Rattlegore’s deathrattle is always -1/-1 from its base stats - the 8/8 Rattlegore that is summoned from the original is actually a different minion, it’s base stats are 8/8 and not 9/9 with a -1/-1 enchantment, as you will see if you hover your mouse over the card, and this carries on down the chain. Rattlegore is effectively 9 different minions. The Nameless One becomes a 9/9 Rattlegore (assuming the Rattlegore on board is the original 9/9) with an enchantment to make it a 4/4, so it will still create an 8/8 when it dies because it’s base stats are actually 9/9. Similarly if you target a Rattlegore part way down the deathrattle chain, say a 6/6, you will create a 4/4 copy of a Rattlegore with 6/6 base stats, and get a 5/5 out of its deathrattle.
The card is indeed worded correctly, but I do understand how it could cause confusion. Unfortunately if they made the description more detailed, it would probably be even more likely to confuse people.
None of what you described agrees with the card description which is simply "Resummon this with -1/-1" (no mention of base stats, no implication that its a different minion being summoned etc.). In the example you gave using the text as it is written on the card, the nameless one should resummon itself as a 3/3 ("this" being the nameless one, and -1/-1 to give the 3/3 stat line).
Just for clarity - I understand how it works (and why it works that way), but that is not how the card is written.
Going back to my original suggestion it would (imo) make more sense if it said "Summon an 8/8 Rattlegore" and that 8/8 Rattlegore had a deathrattle which says "Summon a 7/7 Rattlegore". It's much more intuitive and you know the stats of the minion being summoned without having to hover over anything. You would still need to see the card in action once to know for sure that the next Rattlgore also summoned more Rattlegores, but there must be a way of wording it concisely that isn't as bad and confusing as the way the card is currently written.
edit: Just to add - on mobile hovering over to see stuff isn't ideal either.
Here's the thing: resummoning Rattlegore with -1/-1 almost never makes sense. Kill a 9/1 Rattlegore, and it doesn't attempt to revive as a 8/0 Rattlegore. If you kill it with damage, if the deathrattle was actually -1/-1, would revive a Rattlegore with a negative health. And already, most of us understand this.
So it's not actually literal text, but instead it's just shorthand. It conveys the 9/9, 8/8, 7/7, 6/6, etc. chain, while being succinct on the card. The game will take care of things.
It isn't a bug when Rattlegore follows the chain instead of the shorthand, since this is clearly how the card was build and intended, and we onhere don't have to waste our time arguing about RAW and card text like folks might do in other games, since the Hearthstone engine does everything.
Except we do, because some people are incapable of critical thinking and need everything spelled out for them.
Put the mouse over the 4/4 copy it will show the real stats, thats what you jave track of, not other thing, it makes pergect sense if you remember the diference beteeen him and and actual card which's deathrattle of effect depends on its current stats (aka stats on board) like Recurring Villain