I was talking today with a friend about this card and the whole dynamic of old gods. All gods rely on heavy deck-building restriction or have a big drawback.
Yogg needs to have many spells, and his effect, although is insane, sometimes can lose you the game.
N'Zoth relies on heavy deck building. And it can be disrupted with transform effects. You wanted your Winged Guardian homie? It'd be a shame if instead a sheep got resurrected.
C'Thun also needs heavy deck building and it puts in your deck 4 spells that in general lose you tempo.
Said that, can anybody tell me the deck building needs for Y'shaarj, his counters or drawbacks? In one turn you get INSANE tempo. It's specifically oppresive in Warlock, since in the same turn you burn from 5 to 10 cards from your opponent (if you got a copy of Tickatus with Felosophy) while also clearing your opponent's board and putting some HUGE stats.
At first with Warlock I thought the problem was Tickatus. But on a second look, that card can be countered, by heavy draw or using Lorekeeper Polkelt for drawing your important cards before.
I think that cards from Y'shaarj should cost 1 mana. It has the same problem that Galakrond and Alex had not so long ago. Let me put you this example:
You use a C'Thun deck, your opponent is a Warlock. If you used Polkelt, you can draw all of your pieces quickly before he throws his Tickatus. OK with that. But what can you do if the opponent has Y'shaarj in hand? NOTHING. If you clear your deck and shuffle your C'Thun, he'll burn it with the free copy of Tickatus. If you clear your deck, put shuffle your C'Thun AND also draw that card, he'll dump anyways the Tickatus, maybe 2 copies of it, or one or two of the 0 mana taunts, disrupting your C'Thun.
Gods should be high risk cards (Yogg) or either with big deck restrictions (N'Zoth) or tempo loss (C'Thun). Y'Shaarj has any of that drawbacks. You don't need to make a whole deck around it. You don't have any risk while playing him. And you don't lose tempo, since you can do a bunch of things on a single turn while also dropping insane stats.
Well, if a priest does it, its BAAAAAAAD mimimimi whine whine whine, but now, that warriors and druids (and others?) can do it on perfection, its all fine.
Y'Shaarj requires you to both corrupt and play the cards, in order to get them back for 0 mana. Which, in the case of most all Corrupt cards outside Strongman, can be both difficult and extremely time consuming. In my experience, he only comes down in the late game or right before fatigue hits for Druid/Warlock, when playing against other very greedy decks.
Basically, he's a non-factor or a really bad draw against decks that plan to win before the decks empty out. So I think he's fine.
It has huge deck building restrictions. Corrupt cards have to be in the deck! Those cards are only tied to this expansion as well. Additionally those cards have to be corrupted which affects the other cards that have to be in the deck, typically of a higher mana cost. Then those cards have to be played before the corrupt cards.
And why is a deck restriction having good cards in your deck? Cascading Disaster is good and easy to corrupt. Strongman and Tickatus also can be corrupted easily in control decks. Specially Tickatus, which his cost can be reduced.
Guys, the drawback can't be that you have that dead card in hand! That isn't a drawback. That's a regular 10 mana cost card, if you drew it before, it's a dead card, in any scenario, in any class and with any 10 mana card. If that's the main drawback of Y'shaarj, then we can say that the other gods are weak, since they also require additional things (some of them pretty heavy to get to work) AND also have that restriction of "10 mana card = bad draw".
How is not easy to corrupt cards in control decks? It's hard with cards like Clown, but with cards costing less or equal than 6? Not so hard.
We had this exact problem before guys, I really don't understand how you can't see it. The same was said with Alex "having no duplicates is a huge draw back, the card is fine with 0 mana cards"... Also with Galakrond, "corrupting 4 times is hard, it's fine with 0 mana cards". 0 mana cost discounts are broken most of the times. It's understandable in an effect like Yogg, which is heavy RNG-based (and it loses the discount in the next turn)...
Yshaarj was the old god I wanted the least because he's the only Old God who will not receive any support beyond this expansion. He's a one off for a few months. The others will all continue to be tried for years. He's like the Paladin reborn quest in that way.
And, really, there aren't that many cards to go with Yshaarj. Some classes have 2 corrupt cards and some have only 1. The neutrals are mostly not being played. He's borderline good in 1-2 classes.
Corrupt has turned out to be very good in arena and not terribly common in constructed.
Yshaarj was the old god I wanted the least because he's the only Old God who will not receive any support beyond this expansion. He's a one off for a few months. The others will all continue to be tried for years. He's like the Paladin reborn quest in that way.
And, really, there aren't that many cards to go with Yshaarj. Some classes have 2 corrupt cards and some have only 1. The neutrals are mostly not being played. He's borderline good in 1-2 classes.
Corrupt has turned out to be very good in arena and not terribly common in constructed.
Unlike others Yshaarj is actually good, so no Yshaarj doesn't need more support to be viable.
It's clear from your observations that you haven't played any Y'ShaarJ deck. In fact, you didn't even bother to read the card text. What you're suggesting here would actually make Y'Shaarj much stronger, because usually you don't even want to play most of your corrupted cards in the same turn when you play Y'Shaarj, and making them cost 1 mana would create massive tempo gains in future turns.
My suggestion is craft some Y'Shaarj deck and try it out and you'll see things with more realistic eyes.
And why is a deck restriction having good cards in your deck? Cascading Disaster is good and easy to corrupt. Strongman and Tickatus also can be corrupted easily in control decks. Specially Tickatus, which his cost can be reduced.
Guys, the drawback can't be that you have that dead card in hand! That isn't a drawback. That's a regular 10 mana cost card, if you drew it before, it's a dead card, in any scenario, in any class and with any 10 mana card. If that's the main drawback of Y'shaarj, then we can say that the other gods are weak, since they also require additional things (some of them pretty heavy to get to work) AND also have that restriction of "10 mana card = bad draw".
How is not easy to corrupt cards in control decks? It's hard with cards like Clown, but with cards costing less or equal than 6? Not so hard.
We had this exact problem before guys, I really don't understand how you can't see it. The same was said with Alex "having no duplicates is a huge draw back, the card is fine with 0 mana cards"... Also with Galakrond, "corrupting 4 times is hard, it's fine with 0 mana cards". 0 mana cost discounts are broken most of the times. It's understandable in an effect like Yogg, which is heavy RNG-based (and it loses the discount in the next turn)...
So first of all, trying to corrupt Tickatus in not as simple as it looks. First you need to play cards that cost more than 6 mana in an aggressive meta, oh you also have to draw tickatus then play those cards if you want it corrupted. You can't just throw every expensive card in the deck just to have an easier time corrupting it, doing so will grant you a quick loss, trust me. Then it's just a 6 mana 8/8, what is it gonna do against an aggro opponent? Oh no, it will mill their 1 and 2 drops. Cascading is only good against control, greedy decks, doesn't do anything again wide boards.
Yep, y'shaarj is so broken. Just play your corrupted Tickatus and the 2nd one created by Felosophy, then play double corrupted Strongman and also double fully corrupted cascading disaster. Drop Y'shaarj on turn 10 (9 with coin) and insta win, that's why that deck has over 80% winrate, I mean come on blizz nerf it wtf why you nerf brann and blade dance and not Y'shaarj?
"cards from Y'shaarj should cost 1" Oh, so you spend 10 mana on the card and then you can't play them because you have no mana? Oh ye, it's big brain time
1)a (light) deckbuilding restriction so at least you can't just brainlessly smash it into any deck and expect it to be and actual wincondition
(unlike fuckfacetus that...WOW you need TwIsTiNg NeThEr to activate the corruption....WOW the card that is in ANY control warlock deck....WOW such a HeAvY rEsTrIcTiOn....WOW)
2)only really of any use quite far into the lategame A.K.A. when aggro/midrange decks are supposed to have already won while control decks are supposed to have drawn the tools to deal with a huge boardswing like that meaning that it in fact has counterplay and CAN be stopped
Tumortus on the other hand is the flaw in thid "system" as it can be played relatively early and you have NO way of stopping it's effect (let me remind you that said effect reads: "win the control matchup")
Honestly this post reminded me of the.....people......that used to say
"Shudderwok is a design faliure/is OP/shouldn't have been printed"
when the ONLY problem with that card was (and still is to an extent in wild) the combination of COMPLETELY UNRELATED cards that enabled the actual infinite (and that BTW were borderline useless anywhere else)
Honestly this post reminded me of the.....people......that used to say
"Shudderwok is a design faliure/is OP/shouldn't have been printed"
when the ONLY problem with that card was (and still is to an extent in wild) the combination of COMPLETELY UNRELATED cards that enabled the actual infinite (and that BTW were borderline useless anywhere else)
You know when there are 10 cards that you can play without problem and then one card comes in and breaks the game then I think that card may be the issue, not the other 10.
There was no y'shaarj at the world championship. Tickatus warlock is an awful deck that gets wrecked by anything with face damage. There is no point in arguing about cards in theory when you can just look at how they are performing, and it's clear that y'shaarj is not a balance problem.
I think he's fine, if anything they missed the mark with the other old gods. C'thun's spells aren't good enough so they dilute your deck. Yogg is too random, great sometimes and nothing other times so it's hard to justify the 10 cost. and the menagarie build just doesn't seem to be good enough, more menagirie support needed, though I'm not convinced it hasn't been found yet.
Honestly this post reminded me of the.....people......that used to say
"Shudderwok is a design faliure/is OP/shouldn't have been printed"
when the ONLY problem with that card was (and still is to an extent in wild) the combination of COMPLETELY UNRELATED cards that enabled the actual infinite (and that BTW were borderline useless anywhere else)
You know when there are 10 cards that you can play without problem and then one card comes in and breaks the game then I think that card may be the issue, not the other 10.
OR....MAYBE the 1 card Is a fun and powerful one that gets it's "reputation" ruined by a broken interaction that could be easily fixed with small changes to the other cards that don't break the core idea of the """"""""""""problematic""""""""""""" one
Hi guys.
I was talking today with a friend about this card and the whole dynamic of old gods. All gods rely on heavy deck-building restriction or have a big drawback.
Said that, can anybody tell me the deck building needs for Y'shaarj, his counters or drawbacks? In one turn you get INSANE tempo. It's specifically oppresive in Warlock, since in the same turn you burn from 5 to 10 cards from your opponent (if you got a copy of Tickatus with Felosophy) while also clearing your opponent's board and putting some HUGE stats.
At first with Warlock I thought the problem was Tickatus. But on a second look, that card can be countered, by heavy draw or using Lorekeeper Polkelt for drawing your important cards before.
I think that cards from Y'shaarj should cost 1 mana. It has the same problem that Galakrond and Alex had not so long ago. Let me put you this example:
You use a C'Thun deck, your opponent is a Warlock. If you used Polkelt, you can draw all of your pieces quickly before he throws his Tickatus. OK with that. But what can you do if the opponent has Y'shaarj in hand? NOTHING. If you clear your deck and shuffle your C'Thun, he'll burn it with the free copy of Tickatus. If you clear your deck, put shuffle your C'Thun AND also draw that card, he'll dump anyways the Tickatus, maybe 2 copies of it, or one or two of the 0 mana taunts, disrupting your C'Thun.
Gods should be high risk cards (Yogg) or either with big deck restrictions (N'Zoth) or tempo loss (C'Thun). Y'Shaarj has any of that drawbacks. You don't need to make a whole deck around it. You don't have any risk while playing him. And you don't lose tempo, since you can do a bunch of things on a single turn while also dropping insane stats.
What do you guys think?
Well, if a priest does it, its BAAAAAAAD mimimimi whine whine whine, but now, that warriors and druids (and others?) can do it on perfection, its all fine.
Y'Shaarj requires you to both corrupt and play the cards, in order to get them back for 0 mana. Which, in the case of most all Corrupt cards outside Strongman, can be both difficult and extremely time consuming. In my experience, he only comes down in the late game or right before fatigue hits for Druid/Warlock, when playing against other very greedy decks.
Basically, he's a non-factor or a really bad draw against decks that plan to win before the decks empty out. So I think he's fine.
It has huge deck building restrictions. Corrupt cards have to be in the deck! Those cards are only tied to this expansion as well. Additionally those cards have to be corrupted which affects the other cards that have to be in the deck, typically of a higher mana cost. Then those cards have to be played before the corrupt cards.
Well the drawback is that you have to corrupt all the cards before you play him
Yeah setting up that tempo turn in warlock isn't that easy.
no
And why is a deck restriction having good cards in your deck? Cascading Disaster is good and easy to corrupt. Strongman and Tickatus also can be corrupted easily in control decks. Specially Tickatus, which his cost can be reduced.
Guys, the drawback can't be that you have that dead card in hand! That isn't a drawback. That's a regular 10 mana cost card, if you drew it before, it's a dead card, in any scenario, in any class and with any 10 mana card. If that's the main drawback of Y'shaarj, then we can say that the other gods are weak, since they also require additional things (some of them pretty heavy to get to work) AND also have that restriction of "10 mana card = bad draw".
How is not easy to corrupt cards in control decks? It's hard with cards like Clown, but with cards costing less or equal than 6? Not so hard.
We had this exact problem before guys, I really don't understand how you can't see it. The same was said with Alex "having no duplicates is a huge draw back, the card is fine with 0 mana cards"... Also with Galakrond, "corrupting 4 times is hard, it's fine with 0 mana cards". 0 mana cost discounts are broken most of the times. It's understandable in an effect like Yogg, which is heavy RNG-based (and it loses the discount in the next turn)...
Yshaarj was the old god I wanted the least because he's the only Old God who will not receive any support beyond this expansion. He's a one off for a few months. The others will all continue to be tried for years. He's like the Paladin reborn quest in that way.
And, really, there aren't that many cards to go with Yshaarj. Some classes have 2 corrupt cards and some have only 1. The neutrals are mostly not being played. He's borderline good in 1-2 classes.
Corrupt has turned out to be very good in arena and not terribly common in constructed.
Unlike others Yshaarj is actually good, so no Yshaarj doesn't need more support to be viable.
It's clear from your observations that you haven't played any Y'ShaarJ deck. In fact, you didn't even bother to read the card text. What you're suggesting here would actually make Y'Shaarj much stronger, because usually you don't even want to play most of your corrupted cards in the same turn when you play Y'Shaarj, and making them cost 1 mana would create massive tempo gains in future turns.
My suggestion is craft some Y'Shaarj deck and try it out and you'll see things with more realistic eyes.
In death, I exact my revenge!
Oh indeed lol, they cost 0 only for a turn. I’m stupid.
So first of all, trying to corrupt Tickatus in not as simple as it looks. First you need to play cards that cost more than 6 mana in an aggressive meta, oh you also have to draw tickatus then play those cards if you want it corrupted. You can't just throw every expensive card in the deck just to have an easier time corrupting it, doing so will grant you a quick loss, trust me. Then it's just a 6 mana 8/8, what is it gonna do against an aggro opponent? Oh no, it will mill their 1 and 2 drops. Cascading is only good against control, greedy decks, doesn't do anything again wide boards.
Yep, y'shaarj is so broken. Just play your corrupted Tickatus and the 2nd one created by Felosophy, then play double corrupted Strongman and also double fully corrupted cascading disaster. Drop Y'shaarj on turn 10 (9 with coin) and insta win, that's why that deck has over 80% winrate, I mean come on blizz nerf it wtf why you nerf brann and blade dance and not Y'shaarj?
"cards from Y'shaarj should cost 1"
Oh, so you spend 10 mana on the card and then you can't play them because you have no mana? Oh ye, it's big brain time
The best ending to a thread. :)
Nope, shittertus is the only real problem there.
Y'shaarj is:
1)a (light) deckbuilding restriction so at least you can't just brainlessly smash it into any deck and expect it to be and actual wincondition
(unlike fuckfacetus that...WOW you need TwIsTiNg NeThEr to activate the corruption....WOW the card that is in ANY control warlock deck....WOW such a HeAvY rEsTrIcTiOn....WOW)
2)only really of any use quite far into the lategame A.K.A. when aggro/midrange decks are supposed to have already won while control decks are supposed to have drawn the tools to deal with a huge boardswing like that meaning that it in fact has counterplay and CAN be stopped
Tumortus on the other hand is the flaw in thid "system" as it can be played relatively early and you have NO way of stopping it's effect (let me remind you that said effect reads: "win the control matchup")
Honestly this post reminded me of the.....people......that used to say
"Shudderwok is a design faliure/is OP/shouldn't have been printed"
when the ONLY problem with that card was (and still is to an extent in wild) the combination of COMPLETELY UNRELATED cards that enabled the actual infinite (and that BTW were borderline useless anywhere else)
You know when there are 10 cards that you can play without problem and then one card comes in and breaks the game then I think that card may be the issue, not the other 10.
There was no y'shaarj at the world championship. Tickatus warlock is an awful deck that gets wrecked by anything with face damage. There is no point in arguing about cards in theory when you can just look at how they are performing, and it's clear that y'shaarj is not a balance problem.
I think he's fine, if anything they missed the mark with the other old gods. C'thun's spells aren't good enough so they dilute your deck. Yogg is too random, great sometimes and nothing other times so it's hard to justify the 10 cost. and the menagarie build just doesn't seem to be good enough, more menagirie support needed, though I'm not convinced it hasn't been found yet.
OR....MAYBE the 1 card Is a fun and powerful one that gets it's "reputation" ruined by a broken interaction that could be easily fixed with small changes to the other cards that don't break the core idea of the """"""""""""problematic""""""""""""" one