Il'gynoth just seems like it fits perfectly into a build like Sould DH allowing it to have even more burst potential that it already has. We might even see a similar build to the pre-nerf tempo DH which just pushed as much damage face and then you go for some combination of Il'gynoth + Aldrachi Warblades + Twin Slice and/ or some other damage sources and then you'd be able to effectively punch the opponent to double whatever damage you might have.
The problem I see is that the card is also fine to play on tempo. EVIL Miscreant was nerfed cause at 5 health it was too hard to kil. Welp now Il'gynoth not only has 1 more health but also 1 extra attack. Even if you have nothing else and have to tempo it, then it'll probably do like 4 damage. Also the curve of Warblades into Il'gynoth isn't too bad either, you get 4 damage on turn 4 and then the dude just does prolly another 4 damage on average.
I read a couple opinions that said the card is not that good cause "DH needs that lifesteal to win games" and yes, that's the case against certain decks, but not against every deck and in every game you need to heal for big amounts. Like against Face Hunter if you try to play this dude then you'll probably die, of course but against slower decks you can totally drop him either on tempo for that early pressure or save it for the end to basically close the game.
Yeahhh it’s gonna be pretty insane with a massively buffed Aldrachi.
What i’ve been meaning to ask is, does this extra damage apply if your hero is at full health? Or does your hero need to have been healable in order for the damage to be converted?
Yeahhh it’s gonna be pretty insane with a massively buffed Aldrachi.
What i’ve been meaning to ask is, does this extra damage apply if your hero is at full health? Or does your hero need to have been healable in order for the damage to be converted?
Doesn't need to be healable.
Potentially a strong card, but imo nothing to be scared of.
edit. Also, let us wait if more of related cards get released.
Ehh I’m not so sure I mean first impressions are just that, but I’m teetering towards Il’gy being a bit too strong.
When I look at a card like him, I tend to look at interactive-ness as a whole. Let’s say it’s later in the game (by no means unheard of for soul DH) and you have Aldrachi equipped.
Ilg>lapidary>twin/second slice is 18 damage for a 3 card combo. (16 damage if you hero power for only a two card combo).
Ilg>twin>second>twin>second>Hero power is 22 damage. For only again a 3 card combo.
For a deck that has an insanely easy time not only doing a ton of face damage, but also draws through its deck insanely fast, this seems troublesome.
Again, completely appreciate its 100% preemptive and I could be wrong, but just seeing how the deck currently performs via it’s insane draw and durability, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I think I'm the minority here, but I'm of the opinion the card sucks. At the end of the day it's a 4 mana 2/6 that does probably 4 free damage to face. I'm not putting that in any deck, especially not one so cohesive and focused on synergy (attack buffs). The only card that synergies with it is warblades, and its not 'free damage' because you miss out on the healing. Still super strong with a 10 attack weapon, but it isn't as good as 'doubling the attack' like some people are saying. To make it work you also gotta hold a charge (spending 7 mana to equip it on the same turn isn't gonna let you buff it much), and even then your losing 4 mana you could be spending buffing your weapon/playing blade dance. A lot of the time I'd prefer play lapidary twin slice blade dance and hit for 11, heal 11, and clear the board than hit for 22.
Of course, maybe we'll see an influx of lifesteal cards for DH and there will be more synergy. Moarg and new shooting star give us a fireball if we play ll'gynoth. But that alone has me far from convinced.
Tldr: too weak on its own and the warblades synergy is extremely overrated
I think I'm the minority here, but I'm of the opinion the card sucks. At the end of the day it's a 4 mana 2/6 that does probably 4 free damage to face. I'm not putting that in any deck, especially not one so cohesive and focused on synergy (attack buffs). The only card that synergies with it is warblades, and its not 'free damage' because you miss out on the healing. Still super strong with a 10 attack weapon, but it isn't as good as 'doubling the attack' like some people are saying. To make it work you also gotta hold a charge (spending 7 mana to equip it on the same turn isn't gonna let you buff it much), and even then your losing 4 mana you could be spending buffing your weapon/playing blade dance. A lot of the time I'd prefer play lapidary twin slice blade dance and hit for 11, heal 11, and clear the board than hit for 22.
Of course, maybe we'll see an influx of lifesteal cards for DH and there will be more synergy. Moarg and new shooting star give us a fireball if we play ll'gynoth. But that alone has me far from convinced.
Tldr: too weak on its own and the warblades synergy is extremely overrated
What makes it overrated with warblades synergy (see my post above)?
A deck that has a lot of sustain, pressure, and immense card draw pulling off a 2-3 card combo that hits for 16-22 damage?
A deck mind you, that does not even need Ilgy to be very competitive, but is only furthered by him?
It is an interesting card and might allow Soul DH to kill some opponents even faster, but it will be a dead card in hand against most aggro decks (like Face Hunter, Stealth Rogue, etc...) where you actually NEED the healing to stay alive. So overall I am a bit skeptical about this card and I expect its success will be meta-dependent and that it won't be an auto-include
I think I'm the minority here, but I'm of the opinion the card sucks. At the end of the day it's a 4 mana 2/6 that does probably 4 free damage to face. I'm not putting that in any deck, especially not one so cohesive and focused on synergy (attack buffs). The only card that synergies with it is warblades, and its not 'free damage' because you miss out on the healing. Still super strong with a 10 attack weapon, but it isn't as good as 'doubling the attack' like some people are saying. To make it work you also gotta hold a charge (spending 7 mana to equip it on the same turn isn't gonna let you buff it much), and even then your losing 4 mana you could be spending buffing your weapon/playing blade dance. A lot of the time I'd prefer play lapidary twin slice blade dance and hit for 11, heal 11, and clear the board than hit for 22.
Of course, maybe we'll see an influx of lifesteal cards for DH and there will be more synergy. Moarg and new shooting star give us a fireball if we play ll'gynoth. But that alone has me far from convinced.
Tldr: too weak on its own and the warblades synergy is extremely overrated
What makes it overrated with warblades synergy (see my post above)?
A deck that has a lot of sustain, pressure, and immense card draw pulling off a 2-3 card combo that hits for 16-22 damage?
A deck mind you, that does not even need Ilgy to be very competitive, but is only furthered by him?
As he correctly pointed out, you can't do everything at the same time.
You usually won't play Warblades and Il'gynoth on the same turn, either because it costs too much or is not effective enough. You can't play Il'gynoth, if you need the healing (which is one of the main strengths of Soul DH to begin with, particularly against Hunter). He's less effective if you need to clear the board on the same turn you want to play him, because you need the mana. You'd have to save a swing on Warblades, which might slow down your entire gameplan, because you can't equip Marrowslicer instead. Warblades is the only synergy you have with Il'gynoth, and the card doesn't do anything outside of it. Standalone, it's not the worst minion of all time, but not much of a threat either (and harmful even, if you need the healing).
I wouldn't say that the synergy with Warblades is overrated, but I think the inclusion in Soul DH is. It may end up being good enough for a spot, I wouldn't predict it won't. But limited to Warblades, it is pretty much a pure combo card for a fatal blow, similar to Malygos, and Soul DH isn't a pure combo deck. The extra damage wouldn't even be necessary outside of Priest and maybe Warrior matchups. Unless the meta is full of them, or other classes gain loads of healing, Il'gynoth is either a luxury or a burden in Soul DH, and might be better suited for a different deck entirely.
You can't portray the ideal scenario and pretend it will always happen, while ignoring everything else that happens around that scenario (meta, board states, deck composition etc.). If Hearthstone worked that way, we'd all be complaining about Malygos Druid, because they would always draw Jepetto on Turn 8, and kill you on Turn 9.
Eye Beam could also be used instead of soulcleave, when there's no enemy board.
Mo'arg artificer also happens to be a demon so can be discounted to 0 via Raging Felscreamer played earlier in the game, or can be copied via Felosophy to have more then 2 Mo'args in hand/deck.
Just pure speculation about the card's use beyond warblades.
Eye Beam could also be used instead of soulcleave, when there's no enemy board.
Mo'arg artificer also happens to be a demon so can be discounted to 0 via Raging Felscreamer played earlier in the game, or can be copied via felosophy to have more then 2 Mo'args in hand/deck.
Just pure speculation about the card's use beyond warblades.
I really like where you're going with this. If you draw Mo'args with skull you can copy the discount with Felosophy, too.
It is a very straightforward OTK, conditional to drawing your pieces and reaching 10-mana still alive. You can go in faster if you get some pieces discounted from Skull
Play the discounted 0-mana Mo'arg followed by 2 more at 2-mana (the 3rd one is the one copied) and Il'gynoth
Play 2 outcasted Eye Beam (you have already played 4 cards this turn, it should not be so hard to make sure they are in outcast position) that will deal 24 damage each to the enemy hero. Even if the enemy has no minions you can target the Mo'args and the first one will deal 24, the second one 12
I don't think it will be a very competitive combo deck, but sounds like fun for sure
If you're opponent isn't hitting you and you don't need the healing, then it's good to get some value out of the lifesteal in the form of damage.
But this is an expensive combo card. And unless you have the right set up or the right cards in hand it isn't THAT good. But it's still a good card just because it... doubles the damage of your eye beams and aldrachi warblades. Which are both pretty common cards.
My instinct is these are pretty good numbers. Think of like... Blessed Champion. That doubles the damage something does, but is generally too expensive to be useful.
Il'gynoth just seems like it fits perfectly into a build like Sould DH allowing it to have even more burst potential that it already has. We might even see a similar build to the pre-nerf tempo DH which just pushed as much damage face and then you go for some combination of Il'gynoth + Aldrachi Warblades + Twin Slice and/ or some other damage sources and then you'd be able to effectively punch the opponent to double whatever damage you might have.
The problem I see is that the card is also fine to play on tempo. EVIL Miscreant was nerfed cause at 5 health it was too hard to kil. Welp now Il'gynoth not only has 1 more health but also 1 extra attack. Even if you have nothing else and have to tempo it, then it'll probably do like 4 damage. Also the curve of Warblades into Il'gynoth isn't too bad either, you get 4 damage on turn 4 and then the dude just does prolly another 4 damage on average.
I read a couple opinions that said the card is not that good cause "DH needs that lifesteal to win games" and yes, that's the case against certain decks, but not against every deck and in every game you need to heal for big amounts. Like against Face Hunter if you try to play this dude then you'll probably die, of course but against slower decks you can totally drop him either on tempo for that early pressure or save it for the end to basically close the game.
Yeahhh it’s gonna be pretty insane with a massively buffed Aldrachi.
What i’ve been meaning to ask is, does this extra damage apply if your hero is at full health? Or does your hero need to have been healable in order for the damage to be converted?
Doesn't need to be healable.
Potentially a strong card, but imo nothing to be scared of.
edit. Also, let us wait if more of related cards get released.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Like now, for me it seems an ok card. Nothing too broken and you need to combo with something.
By the way, combo card in midrange and aggro we already know that are bad.
So this is not an aggro/midrange but this is a combo card maybe for also an OTK or nearly, we will see.
The Nameless One is a card for sure good. Always strong in every deck. (And I don't know if priest will play it since he has so many good cards)
Il'gynoth might be good, it might have or don't have a deck. We will see.
Ehh I’m not so sure I mean first impressions are just that, but I’m teetering towards Il’gy being a bit too strong.
When I look at a card like him, I tend to look at interactive-ness as a whole. Let’s say it’s later in the game (by no means unheard of for soul DH) and you have Aldrachi equipped.
Ilg>lapidary>twin/second slice is 18 damage for a 3 card combo. (16 damage if you hero power for only a two card combo).
Ilg>twin>second>twin>second>Hero power is 22 damage. For only again a 3 card combo.
For a deck that has an insanely easy time not only doing a ton of face damage, but also draws through its deck insanely fast, this seems troublesome.
Again, completely appreciate its 100% preemptive and I could be wrong, but just seeing how the deck currently performs via it’s insane draw and durability, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I think I'm the minority here, but I'm of the opinion the card sucks. At the end of the day it's a 4 mana 2/6 that does probably 4 free damage to face. I'm not putting that in any deck, especially not one so cohesive and focused on synergy (attack buffs). The only card that synergies with it is warblades, and its not 'free damage' because you miss out on the healing. Still super strong with a 10 attack weapon, but it isn't as good as 'doubling the attack' like some people are saying. To make it work you also gotta hold a charge (spending 7 mana to equip it on the same turn isn't gonna let you buff it much), and even then your losing 4 mana you could be spending buffing your weapon/playing blade dance. A lot of the time I'd prefer play lapidary twin slice blade dance and hit for 11, heal 11, and clear the board than hit for 22.
Of course, maybe we'll see an influx of lifesteal cards for DH and there will be more synergy. Moarg and new shooting star give us a fireball if we play ll'gynoth. But that alone has me far from convinced.
Tldr: too weak on its own and the warblades synergy is extremely overrated
What makes it overrated with warblades synergy (see my post above)?
A deck that has a lot of sustain, pressure, and immense card draw pulling off a 2-3 card combo that hits for 16-22 damage?
A deck mind you, that does not even need Ilgy to be very competitive, but is only furthered by him?
It is an interesting card and might allow Soul DH to kill some opponents even faster, but it will be a dead card in hand against most aggro decks (like Face Hunter, Stealth Rogue, etc...) where you actually NEED the healing to stay alive. So overall I am a bit skeptical about this card and I expect its success will be meta-dependent and that it won't be an auto-include
As he correctly pointed out, you can't do everything at the same time.
You usually won't play Warblades and Il'gynoth on the same turn, either because it costs too much or is not effective enough. You can't play Il'gynoth, if you need the healing (which is one of the main strengths of Soul DH to begin with, particularly against Hunter). He's less effective if you need to clear the board on the same turn you want to play him, because you need the mana. You'd have to save a swing on Warblades, which might slow down your entire gameplan, because you can't equip Marrowslicer instead. Warblades is the only synergy you have with Il'gynoth, and the card doesn't do anything outside of it. Standalone, it's not the worst minion of all time, but not much of a threat either (and harmful even, if you need the healing).
I wouldn't say that the synergy with Warblades is overrated, but I think the inclusion in Soul DH is. It may end up being good enough for a spot, I wouldn't predict it won't. But limited to Warblades, it is pretty much a pure combo card for a fatal blow, similar to Malygos, and Soul DH isn't a pure combo deck. The extra damage wouldn't even be necessary outside of Priest and maybe Warrior matchups. Unless the meta is full of them, or other classes gain loads of healing, Il'gynoth is either a luxury or a burden in Soul DH, and might be better suited for a different deck entirely.
You can't portray the ideal scenario and pretend it will always happen, while ignoring everything else that happens around that scenario (meta, board states, deck composition etc.). If Hearthstone worked that way, we'd all be complaining about Malygos Druid, because they would always draw Jepetto on Turn 8, and kill you on Turn 9.
Soul Cleave + Mo'arg Artificer , would mean 8 to hero face , or 16 if there are 2 Mo'arg Artificer and 2 enemy minions.
Eye Beam could also be used instead of soulcleave, when there's no enemy board.
Mo'arg artificer also happens to be a demon so can be discounted to 0 via Raging Felscreamer played earlier in the game, or can be copied via Felosophy to have more then 2 Mo'args in hand/deck.
Just pure speculation about the card's use beyond warblades.
I really like where you're going with this. If you draw Mo'args with skull you can copy the discount with Felosophy, too.
Lifesteal OTK Control Demon Hunter, let's go!
It is a very straightforward OTK, conditional to drawing your pieces and reaching 10-mana still alive. You can go in faster if you get some pieces discounted from Skull
I don't think it will be a very competitive combo deck, but sounds like fun for sure
I think it's a good card for slower matchups.
If you're opponent isn't hitting you and you don't need the healing, then it's good to get some value out of the lifesteal in the form of damage.
But this is an expensive combo card. And unless you have the right set up or the right cards in hand it isn't THAT good. But it's still a good card just because it... doubles the damage of your eye beams and aldrachi warblades. Which are both pretty common cards.
My instinct is these are pretty good numbers. Think of like... Blessed Champion. That doubles the damage something does, but is generally too expensive to be useful.
I think its going to see some play. We'll see how it goes. Currently DH is doing well with its Soul decks. Guess we will see how it all goes.