I’ll start this off by saying that I am actually running Soul Shard Demon Hunter on ladder right now and it’s by far my top deck. My win rate in high platinum has to be at least 70%+ rn.
So coming from the perspective of playing this deck daily, I’m noticing that almost all my games are being decided exclusively by dropping Soulshard Lapidary and hitting my opponent in the face for an absurd amount. It reminds me a lot of when Leeroy was still legal in standard and it was basically THE finisher for an aggro deck.
Now I know that they have inherent differences such as Lapidary having a bigger body and Leeroy being able to swing without putting your hero’s health at risk, but I think in terms of sudden burst damage from hand they are in the same tier
This isn’t a post calling to nerf Lapidary either, just a discussion on their actual power levels in comparison to one another.
The problem was with Leroy, it was a neutral card that can fit in many decks across multiple classes (i.e. top end finisher for aggro, combo piece for control/combo, etc.).
In contrast, Lapidary can only exist in a Demon Hunter AND soul shard deck.
Leeroy was never the most powerful of cards. It was just always an effective top end burst for aggro decks. Compared to fireball, leeroy is extremely weak, and fireball never broke the game.
As far as lapidary goes, in a soul DH deck it is many times more powerful than leeroy. But if leeroy still existed in standard, it would be run in face hunter, aggro rogue, and maybe more.
Leeroy was never the most powerful of cards. It was just always an effective top end burst for aggro decks. Compared to fireball, leeroy is extremely weak, and fireball never broke the game.
As far as lapidary goes, in a soul DH deck it is many times more powerful than leeroy. But if leeroy still existed in standard, it would be run in face hunter, aggro rogue, and maybe more.
Oh man, the river of salty tears would overflow from people crying after secret passage pulled Leeroy for lethal.
one is control, the other is FACEFACEFACEFACE so no, it's not at the same level
It sure is good at controlling my health points 😂
Jokes aside, I get what you're saying, but DH very often uses lapidary to close the game (hitting you for 9+ by combining it with marrowslicer and twin slice). In the end though, I agree with the other guys, I think it's a powerful card, but not that problematic because it's not neutral and requires shoul shards.
Lapidary is better than Leeroy in most cases, but the problem with Leeroy wasn't his powerlevel (post-nerf) but his persistence. He was always the finisher, both across a meta in terms of so many classes using him and across metas with him being used year after year.
Although Leeroy isn't directly worse than Fireball, there were plenty of things you could do with Leeroy that you couldn't do with a Fireball. Most notably with Shadowstep but other classes could shenanigans with him as well.
The problem was with Leroy, it was a neutral card that can fit in many decks across multiple classes (i.e. top end finisher for aggro, combo piece for control/combo, etc.).
In contrast, Lapidary can only exist in a Demon Hunter AND soul shard deck.
This.
Lots of cards have been nerfed to the HoF because of being a staple card in too many different decks.
Not to mention, the entrance audio, while cute for a while, and revered in the halls of memery, it really grinds your gears after you hear it at the end of so many games. Especially if you're on the receiving end of it.
Soulshard Lapidary is pretty good, and maybe even as good or better than Leeroy, but it's one of the cards that might only exist because Leeroy was rotated out.
The issue was never that finishers shouldn't exist. All classes should have some sort of finisher to close games out (except for Priest, obviously), but finishers should be unique to classes, and come with some sort of restriction, so you don't run them in any kind of deck. Lapidary forces you to run Soul Fragments, which seems good for now because the other Soul cards are good too, but someday, you'll consider different options, and then the cost of including Lapidary gets higher, so that you might have to give it up, unlike Leeroy, which you could include in any deck regardless of class and theme, wherever you want such a finisher.
A very similar card is Cumulo-Maximus. But unlike DH, Shaman is less consistent in rushing opponents down and the Overload theme has more down- than upsides, and building your deck in a way that Cumulo becomes a good finisher is trickier (and apparently not possible right now). The card itself is undeniably strong, better than Lapidary even, considering that it passes taunts and doesn't require you to dedicate a significant portion of your deck to. But with Leeroy gone, you always have to look at finishers in the context of their respective class and deck theme, which makes the game more interesting than half the classes slamming down Leeroy.
Not only does it help defining classes more, it's also possible to create more diversity within a class this way. It's possible that someday, for ecample, Shaman gets some cards that work better with their Windfury theme again, like old Rockbiter Weapon used to. Maybe something like a 1 mana "Give an Elemental +4 attack this turn", just to put Al'akir on the map again. But then, you might not want to combine the Windfury theme with the Overload theme.
Ideally, you have a lot of cool things to choose from, but you can't use them all at the same time, and every powerful tool comes with its own advantages and disadvantages. This is something the developers definitely started to pay more attention to, over the last few expansions. And my impression is that rotating Leeroy helped with that.
The problem was with Leroy, it was a neutral card that can fit in many decks across multiple classes (i.e. top end finisher for aggro, combo piece for control/combo, etc.).
In contrast, Lapidary can only exist in a Demon Hunter AND soul shard deck.
This.
Lots of cards have been nerfed to the HoF because of being a staple card in too many different decks.
Not to mention, the entrance audio, while cute for a while, and revered in the halls of memery, it really grinds your gears after you hear it at the end of so many games. Especially if you're on the receiving end of it.
Honestly, years of "Leeeroooyyy JENKINS!" had less of an impact on my sanity than comparitively short periods of "I'm in CHARGE now!", or "Unity. Precision. Perfection." and especially the worst of them all, "Your wish is my suggestion". I thought I'd never hate a card as much as Patches, but man...
The problem was with Leroy, it was a neutral card that can fit in many decks across multiple classes (i.e. top end finisher for aggro, combo piece for control/combo, etc.).
In contrast, Lapidary can only exist in a Demon Hunter AND soul shard deck.
Exactly this. To put this into further perspective by comparison...
Let’s say demon hunter had a card. “5 mana 5/5. Battlecry: Destroy a soul fragment to gain spell power +5 this turn.”
In demon hunter, this actually would be somewhat playable with the likes of eye beam, blade dance, aoe, etc.
Now imagine a card like this as a neutral, with no requirements, in mage or Druid.
I’ll start this off by saying that I am actually running Soul Shard Demon Hunter on ladder right now and it’s by far my top deck. My win rate in high platinum has to be at least 70%+ rn.
So coming from the perspective of playing this deck daily, I’m noticing that almost all my games are being decided exclusively by dropping Soulshard Lapidary and hitting my opponent in the face for an absurd amount. It reminds me a lot of when Leeroy was still legal in standard and it was basically THE finisher for an aggro deck.
Now I know that they have inherent differences such as Lapidary having a bigger body and Leeroy being able to swing without putting your hero’s health at risk, but I think in terms of sudden burst damage from hand they are in the same tier
This isn’t a post calling to nerf Lapidary either, just a discussion on their actual power levels in comparison to one another.
The problem was with Leroy, it was a neutral card that can fit in many decks across multiple classes (i.e. top end finisher for aggro, combo piece for control/combo, etc.).
In contrast, Lapidary can only exist in a Demon Hunter AND soul shard deck.
Leeroy was never the most powerful of cards. It was just always an effective top end burst for aggro decks. Compared to fireball, leeroy is extremely weak, and fireball never broke the game.
As far as lapidary goes, in a soul DH deck it is many times more powerful than leeroy. But if leeroy still existed in standard, it would be run in face hunter, aggro rogue, and maybe more.
Oh man, the river of salty tears would overflow from people crying after secret passage pulled Leeroy for lethal.
one is control, the other is FACEFACEFACEFACE
so no, it's not at the same level
It sure is good at controlling my health points 😂
Jokes aside, I get what you're saying, but DH very often uses lapidary to close the game (hitting you for 9+ by combining it with marrowslicer and twin slice). In the end though, I agree with the other guys, I think it's a powerful card, but not that problematic because it's not neutral and requires shoul shards.
Lapidary is better than Leeroy in most cases, but the problem with Leeroy wasn't his powerlevel (post-nerf) but his persistence. He was always the finisher, both across a meta in terms of so many classes using him and across metas with him being used year after year.
Although Leeroy isn't directly worse than Fireball, there were plenty of things you could do with Leeroy that you couldn't do with a Fireball. Most notably with Shadowstep but other classes could shenanigans with him as well.
This.
Lots of cards have been nerfed to the HoF because of being a staple card in too many different decks.
Not to mention, the entrance audio, while cute for a while, and revered in the halls of memery, it really grinds your gears after you hear it at the end of so many games. Especially if you're on the receiving end of it.
Soulshard Lapidary is pretty good, and maybe even as good or better than Leeroy, but it's one of the cards that might only exist because Leeroy was rotated out.
The issue was never that finishers shouldn't exist. All classes should have some sort of finisher to close games out (except for Priest, obviously), but finishers should be unique to classes, and come with some sort of restriction, so you don't run them in any kind of deck. Lapidary forces you to run Soul Fragments, which seems good for now because the other Soul cards are good too, but someday, you'll consider different options, and then the cost of including Lapidary gets higher, so that you might have to give it up, unlike Leeroy, which you could include in any deck regardless of class and theme, wherever you want such a finisher.
A very similar card is Cumulo-Maximus. But unlike DH, Shaman is less consistent in rushing opponents down and the Overload theme has more down- than upsides, and building your deck in a way that Cumulo becomes a good finisher is trickier (and apparently not possible right now). The card itself is undeniably strong, better than Lapidary even, considering that it passes taunts and doesn't require you to dedicate a significant portion of your deck to. But with Leeroy gone, you always have to look at finishers in the context of their respective class and deck theme, which makes the game more interesting than half the classes slamming down Leeroy.
Not only does it help defining classes more, it's also possible to create more diversity within a class this way. It's possible that someday, for ecample, Shaman gets some cards that work better with their Windfury theme again, like old Rockbiter Weapon used to. Maybe something like a 1 mana "Give an Elemental +4 attack this turn", just to put Al'akir on the map again. But then, you might not want to combine the Windfury theme with the Overload theme.
Ideally, you have a lot of cool things to choose from, but you can't use them all at the same time, and every powerful tool comes with its own advantages and disadvantages. This is something the developers definitely started to pay more attention to, over the last few expansions. And my impression is that rotating Leeroy helped with that.
Honestly, years of "Leeeroooyyy JENKINS!" had less of an impact on my sanity than comparitively short periods of "I'm in CHARGE now!", or "Unity. Precision. Perfection." and especially the worst of them all, "Your wish is my suggestion". I thought I'd never hate a card as much as Patches, but man...
Exactly this. To put this into further perspective by comparison...
Let’s say demon hunter had a card. “5 mana 5/5. Battlecry: Destroy a soul fragment to gain spell power +5 this turn.”
In demon hunter, this actually would be somewhat playable with the likes of eye beam, blade dance, aoe, etc.
Now imagine a card like this as a neutral, with no requirements, in mage or Druid.
Soulshard Lapidary