Aggro Rogue has been trash tier in the current meta and is simply slower than other aggro decks and is usually dependent on a huge edwin play to win against aggro in the current lists, or just draw perfectly while the opponent lowrolls.
After seeing the card in action in various streams, Secret Passage will certainly give aggro rogue more sustainability and consistency, but will it even be fast enough to keep up with aggro demon hunter, zoo warlock, or pirate warrior? New weapon cards are not really "aggro" so much as value over time focused, which makes it better in longer match-ups, but I don't see it building up fast enough against other aggro decks, since that's really a "win by turn 8 or 9" strategy. Plus, with Voracious Reader being an option for any aggro deck, it makes card draw less valuable since other aggro lists won't run out of cards very often either.
While secret passage will be great for making basically any rogue deck more consistent, unless you can cheat out a giant edwin or maybe questing adventurer, it still seems like it just won't make aggro rogue better than what currently exists in the aggro world. I honestly think it would be better in current tempo rogue lists since you can make better plays on curve without sacrificing resources for just 1 mana tax, and even then, Galakrond nerf has hurt Rogue a lot, so it just makes it a decent option again.
TL;DR: Secret Passage is a great standalone card for basically any rogue deck, but I don't think it will make rogue stronger than the meta, and still probably not even tier 1. So for all the people screaming nerf, why nerf a great card in an average, or maybe slightly above average deck? Rogue sucks right now, so what's wrong with giving it a powerful card to make it decent again?
Secret Passage will be a part of every single rogue deck for the next 2 years
Potentially, but that's not the point. The point is that will Rogue be good enough that it matters? I don't think so. Maybe it will matter in future expansions, but I don't see it mattering right now.
Secret Passage will allow you to play cards that are doing strong stuff for the mana cost but weak for a card cost. For example it allows you to run Sinister Strike in your burn rogue which is good for the mana cost but it usually doesnt worth a card. Or you can run Wisp in your tempo rogue to easily activate combo cards like Hooked Scimitar on curve. It also makes cards like Preparation or Sap much better.
While its true that everyone has access to Voracious Reader, thats just one card. Rogue also has Secret Passage, Cutting Class, Greyheart Sage, etc. depending on what package you prefer. So this many cheap card draw will make the deck more consistent and it allows you to play more tempo-heavy cards.
Secret Passage will be a part of every single rogue deck for the next 2 years
Potentially, but that's not the point. The point is that will Rogue be good enough that it matters? I don't think so. Maybe it will matter in future expansions, but I don't see it mattering right now.
How is that not the point? A card being so OP that it is autoinclude is literally the point: There is a design flaw with that card.
Whether or not "Aggro Rogue is still a trash deck" is true or not is irrelevant because that's a completely separate point. You may just as well have said, "Yes but it's still very difficult to carry 4 watermelons at the same time."
Several times, extremely strong cards have been printed which were still not broken enough to carry an archetype. I have to say Secret Passage is one of the strongest cards I have ever seen, but if the decks it fits in has good counters is still unclear.
Several times, extremely strong cards have been printed which were still not broken enough to carry an archetype. I have to say Secret Passage is one of the strongest cards I have ever seen, but if the decks it fits in has good counters is still unclear.
I hope odd rogue will be viable again!
Odd rogue is pretty decent right now but it will get a lot of new support from SA. The new aggro king of wild will be either odd rogue or even shaman IMO, but there is a good chance that both decks will be tier 1.
Secret Passage will be a part of every single rogue deck for the next 2 years
Potentially, but that's not the point. The point is that will Rogue be good enough that it matters? I don't think so. Maybe it will matter in future expansions, but I don't see it mattering right now.
How is that not the point? A card being so OP that it is autoinclude is literally the point: There is a design flaw with that card.
Whether or not "Aggro Rogue is still a trash deck" is true or not is irrelevant because that's a completely separate point. You may just as well have said, "Yes but it's still very difficult to carry 4 watermelons at the same time."
It is relevant, because it is only auto include because Rogue sucks right now and is inconsistent. If they had other good cards, it wouldn’t be autoinclude. I made the tread to discuss if it would actually be a problem that it is autoinclude. By problem, I mean not that it is a design problem, but that it is a problem for actually playing against it. I don’t think rogue will be too strong even with secret passage. Rogue is terrible right now so it needed a broken card like this to even have a chance to be good.
Secret Passage will allow you to play cards that are doing strong stuff for the mana cost but weak for a card cost. For example it allows you to run Sinister Strike in your burn rogue which is good for the mana cost but it usually doesnt worth a card. Or you can run Wisp in your tempo rogue to easily activate combo cards like Hooked Scimitar on curve. It also makes cards like Preparation or Sap much better.
While its true that everyone has access to Voracious Reader, thats just one card. Rogue also has Secret Passage, Cutting Class, Greyheart Sage, etc. depending on what package you prefer. So this many cheap card draw will make the deck more consistent and it allows you to play more tempo-heavy cards.
Or you know, just run Voracious reader with secret passage. would have to be a face rogue.
Secret Passage will allow you to play cards that are doing strong stuff for the mana cost but weak for a card cost. For example it allows you to run Sinister Strike in your burn rogue which is good for the mana cost but it usually doesnt worth a card. Or you can run Wisp in your tempo rogue to easily activate combo cards like Hooked Scimitar on curve. It also makes cards like Preparation or Sap much better.
While its true that everyone has access to Voracious Reader, thats just one card. Rogue also has Secret Passage, Cutting Class, Greyheart Sage, etc. depending on what package you prefer. So this many cheap card draw will make the deck more consistent and it allows you to play more tempo-heavy cards.
Or you know, just run Voracious reader with secret passage. would have to be a face rogue.
Sure, why not? My point was, even if every class has access to reader, it still makes Secret passage relevant. BTW I have some theorycrafts that includes both the reader and the passage and more card draw.
Secret Passage is at least another set away from being broken in Standard. I don't even think it puts Rogue firmly in tier 1. Rogue is currently even worse in Wild than it is in standard, not to mention Wild is kinda supposed to be OP in principle.
Secret Passage will be a part of every single rogue deck for the next 2 years
Potentially, but that's not the point. The point is that will Rogue be good enough that it matters? I don't think so. Maybe it will matter in future expansions, but I don't see it mattering right now.
How is that not the point? A card being so OP that it is autoinclude is literally the point: There is a design flaw with that card.
Whether or not "Aggro Rogue is still a trash deck" is true or not is irrelevant because that's a completely separate point. You may just as well have said, "Yes but it's still very difficult to carry 4 watermelons at the same time."
It is relevant, because it is only auto include because Rogue sucks right now and is inconsistent. If they had other good cards, it wouldn’t be autoinclude. I made the tread to discuss if it would actually be a problem that it is autoinclude. By problem, I mean not that it is a design problem, but that it is a problem for actually playing against it. I don’t think rogue will be too strong even with secret passage. Rogue is terrible right now so it needed a broken card like this to even have a chance to be good.
Secret Passage or not Rogue will be tier 1. You rate a card 5 stars when it sees play in every viable deck in its class. Secret Passage is 5 stars. I don't think it will be a problem compared to all the other broken combos in this expansion though.
Secret Passage or not Rogue will be tier 1. You rate a card 5 stars when it sees play in every viable deck in its class. Secret Passage is 5 stars. I don't think it will be a problem compared to all the other broken combos in this expansion though.
Tier 1 without secret passage? Is that a joke? Aggro Rogue is so bad now, it's like t4. So what, you think Lilian and self sharpening sword are enough to carry it to tier 1? Yeah... sure. The only reason it could even possibly reach t1 is because of secret passage, and I think that's a stretch. Aggro rogue will still be slower than zoolock and aggro demon hunter, it will just be more consistent and less highroll dependent.
Secret Passage or not Rogue will be tier 1. You rate a card 5 stars when it sees play in every viable deck in its class. Secret Passage is 5 stars. I don't think it will be a problem compared to all the other broken combos in this expansion though.
Tier 1 without secret passage? Is that a joke? Aggro Rogue is so bad now, it's like t4. So what, you think Lilian and self sharpening sword are enough to carry it to tier 1? Yeah... sure. The only reason it could even possibly reach t1 is because of secret passage, and I think that's a stretch. Aggro rogue will still be slower than zoolock and aggro demon hunter, it will just be more consistent and less highroll dependent.
I'm saying a Rogue deck will be tier 1. Not aggro Rogue.
Secret Passage or not Rogue will be tier 1. You rate a card 5 stars when it sees play in every viable deck in its class. Secret Passage is 5 stars. I don't think it will be a problem compared to all the other broken combos in this expansion though.
Tier 1 without secret passage? Is that a joke? Aggro Rogue is so bad now, it's like t4. So what, you think Lilian and self sharpening sword are enough to carry it to tier 1? Yeah... sure. The only reason it could even possibly reach t1 is because of secret passage, and I think that's a stretch. Aggro rogue will still be slower than zoolock and aggro demon hunter, it will just be more consistent and less highroll dependent.
I'm saying a Rogue deck will be tier 1. Not aggro Rogue.
And what might that imaginary deck be? Galakrond was nerfed to be tier 2 at best, and that deck didn't get much help from the new set besides secret passage
Complaining about a card before the release of the expansion ? I don't know what to say, but this the fastest complain I have ever seen here
You haven't been around much then =P. People have worried about cards pre-release since Goblins vs Gnomes (maybe even pre-Classic, but I came in after that haha).
I do think Secret Passage can be a problem and should probably be 2 or maybe even 3 mana. This is definitely a more troublesome card than Glide in my opinion, since Glide seems to be a lot more situational than a lot of people seem to realize. There's a chance that Secret Passage rng is too much to overcome, but for 1 mana, there's literally no drawback to just throwing it into every rogue deck there is.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
This card in particular has single handed-ly saved my buttocks multiple times just after 1 hour of playing. The thing with Secret Passage is it acts as a top deck x5 with a cost of 1, so you never really run out of steam playing aggro until around turn 5 or 6 which is the ideal moment to get yourself a Leeroy Jenkins. Not to mention, it is SUCH an effective deck-thinner. Imagine having a few 1 mana cost cards in your deck and by the time you finished your Secret Passage turn, you threw away all those cards for extra board presence and values and left a thinner deck with greater chances for future values.
Anyway, I love the card so much and it hurts me to say this card is sooo busted it will get nerfed sooner or later.
This card in particular has single handed-ly saved my buttocks multiple times just after 1 hour of playing. The thing with Secret Passage is it acts as a top deck x5 with a cost of 1, so you never really run out of steam playing aggro until around turn 5 or 6 which is the ideal moment to get yourself a Leeroy Jenkins. Not to mention, it is SUCH an effective deck-thinner. Imagine having a few 1 mana cost cards in your deck and by the time you finished your Secret Passage turn, you threw away all those cards for extra board presence and values and left a thinner deck with greater chances for future values.
Anyway, I love the card so much and it hurts me to say this card is sooo busted I will get nerfed sooner or later.
And it's not even that, it's good in a more Control based variant too
Say you have 5 or 6 cards in hand on turn 10 but you need removal or something, instead of going lackey > Togwaggle > hope you get Sap in the three cards off Wand, you can just drop Passage, and even if you don't get Sap you've now got 5 other cards to use in that situation and you don't lose value the next turn.
It's the same basic concept as Evocation, except less RNG.
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Aggro Rogue has been trash tier in the current meta and is simply slower than other aggro decks and is usually dependent on a huge edwin play to win against aggro in the current lists, or just draw perfectly while the opponent lowrolls.
After seeing the card in action in various streams, Secret Passage will certainly give aggro rogue more sustainability and consistency, but will it even be fast enough to keep up with aggro demon hunter, zoo warlock, or pirate warrior? New weapon cards are not really "aggro" so much as value over time focused, which makes it better in longer match-ups, but I don't see it building up fast enough against other aggro decks, since that's really a "win by turn 8 or 9" strategy. Plus, with Voracious Reader being an option for any aggro deck, it makes card draw less valuable since other aggro lists won't run out of cards very often either.
While secret passage will be great for making basically any rogue deck more consistent, unless you can cheat out a giant edwin or maybe questing adventurer, it still seems like it just won't make aggro rogue better than what currently exists in the aggro world. I honestly think it would be better in current tempo rogue lists since you can make better plays on curve without sacrificing resources for just 1 mana tax, and even then, Galakrond nerf has hurt Rogue a lot, so it just makes it a decent option again.
TL;DR: Secret Passage is a great standalone card for basically any rogue deck, but I don't think it will make rogue stronger than the meta, and still probably not even tier 1. So for all the people screaming nerf, why nerf a great card in an average, or maybe slightly above average deck? Rogue sucks right now, so what's wrong with giving it a powerful card to make it decent again?
*awaits waterfall of complaints regarding Rogue resource generation and nerfing shadowstep/Edwin*
Secret Passage will be a part of every single rogue deck for the next 2 years
Potentially, but that's not the point. The point is that will Rogue be good enough that it matters? I don't think so. Maybe it will matter in future expansions, but I don't see it mattering right now.
Secret Passage will allow you to play cards that are doing strong stuff for the mana cost but weak for a card cost. For example it allows you to run Sinister Strike in your burn rogue which is good for the mana cost but it usually doesnt worth a card. Or you can run Wisp in your tempo rogue to easily activate combo cards like Hooked Scimitar on curve. It also makes cards like Preparation or Sap much better.
While its true that everyone has access to Voracious Reader, thats just one card. Rogue also has Secret Passage, Cutting Class, Greyheart Sage, etc. depending on what package you prefer. So this many cheap card draw will make the deck more consistent and it allows you to play more tempo-heavy cards.
How is that not the point? A card being so OP that it is autoinclude is literally the point: There is a design flaw with that card.
Whether or not "Aggro Rogue is still a trash deck" is true or not is irrelevant because that's a completely separate point. You may just as well have said, "Yes but it's still very difficult to carry 4 watermelons at the same time."
Several times, extremely strong cards have been printed which were still not broken enough to carry an archetype. I have to say Secret Passage is one of the strongest cards I have ever seen, but if the decks it fits in has good counters is still unclear.
I hope odd rogue will be viable again!
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Odd rogue is pretty decent right now but it will get a lot of new support from SA. The new aggro king of wild will be either odd rogue or even shaman IMO, but there is a good chance that both decks will be tier 1.
It is relevant, because it is only auto include because Rogue sucks right now and is inconsistent. If they had other good cards, it wouldn’t be autoinclude. I made the tread to discuss if it would actually be a problem that it is autoinclude. By problem, I mean not that it is a design problem, but that it is a problem for actually playing against it. I don’t think rogue will be too strong even with secret passage. Rogue is terrible right now so it needed a broken card like this to even have a chance to be good.
Or you know, just run Voracious reader with secret passage. would have to be a face rogue.
Sure, why not? My point was, even if every class has access to reader, it still makes Secret passage relevant. BTW I have some theorycrafts that includes both the reader and the passage and more card draw.
Complaining about a card before the release of the expansion ? I don't know what to say, but this the fastest complain I have ever seen here
Secret Passage is at least another set away from being broken in Standard. I don't even think it puts Rogue firmly in tier 1. Rogue is currently even worse in Wild than it is in standard, not to mention Wild is kinda supposed to be OP in principle.
Secret Passage or not Rogue will be tier 1. You rate a card 5 stars when it sees play in every viable deck in its class. Secret Passage is 5 stars. I don't think it will be a problem compared to all the other broken combos in this expansion though.
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
Tier 1 without secret passage? Is that a joke? Aggro Rogue is so bad now, it's like t4. So what, you think Lilian and self sharpening sword are enough to carry it to tier 1? Yeah... sure. The only reason it could even possibly reach t1 is because of secret passage, and I think that's a stretch. Aggro rogue will still be slower than zoolock and aggro demon hunter, it will just be more consistent and less highroll dependent.
I'm saying a Rogue deck will be tier 1. Not aggro Rogue.
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
And what might that imaginary deck be? Galakrond was nerfed to be tier 2 at best, and that deck didn't get much help from the new set besides secret passage
You haven't been around much then =P. People have worried about cards pre-release since Goblins vs Gnomes (maybe even pre-Classic, but I came in after that haha).
I do think Secret Passage can be a problem and should probably be 2 or maybe even 3 mana. This is definitely a more troublesome card than Glide in my opinion, since Glide seems to be a lot more situational than a lot of people seem to realize. There's a chance that Secret Passage rng is too much to overcome, but for 1 mana, there's literally no drawback to just throwing it into every rogue deck there is.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
This card in particular has single handed-ly saved my buttocks multiple times just after 1 hour of playing. The thing with Secret Passage is it acts as a top deck x5 with a cost of 1, so you never really run out of steam playing aggro until around turn 5 or 6 which is the ideal moment to get yourself a Leeroy Jenkins. Not to mention, it is SUCH an effective deck-thinner. Imagine having a few 1 mana cost cards in your deck and by the time you finished your Secret Passage turn, you threw away all those cards for extra board presence and values and left a thinner deck with greater chances for future values.
Anyway, I love the card so much and it hurts me to say this card is sooo busted it will get nerfed sooner or later.
And it's not even that, it's good in a more Control based variant too
Say you have 5 or 6 cards in hand on turn 10 but you need removal or something, instead of going lackey > Togwaggle > hope you get Sap in the three cards off Wand, you can just drop Passage, and even if you don't get Sap you've now got 5 other cards to use in that situation and you don't lose value the next turn.
It's the same basic concept as Evocation, except less RNG.