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My opinion on the card from another discussion:
With the change I propose:
- the card is still good if non-Outcasted which is great for non-aggro decks.
- Cards drawn in Outcast would never cost 0! 1 and 2-mana cards would be reduced to 1, 3-mana cards reduced to 2. It will greatly affect the OP Altruis swing turn (usually turn 7) while still providing significant value to non-aggro decks drawing 7-mana cards and above. No need to further nerf my boy Altruis.
- You need to draw 8-mana cards and above to have a better reduction than the current Skull. 7-mana cards would go down to 4 (as they do now).
Thoughts?
I quite literally was expecting you to come with a ''Just remove it. KEKW''
Haha no I actually like DH as a class and its mechanics, Outcast in particular. I'm not happy how it's shaping up to be an exclusive aggro class tho.
I'd make it a legendary card. When you have two Skulls in the deck and you chain two in one turn it's a broken clown fiesta of a turn
I play DH a lot and I can tell you that playing 2 chained Skulls (as in one being discounted by the other) in a single game is a VERY rare occurrence. I can also count on one hand the times it happened against me.
Hell, even playing 2 Skulls in a game overall is not so common nowadays. With tempo/aggro DH you usually win or lose before you even need the second refill. It happened more frequently with the Kaelthas/InnerDemon combo deck, but that variant isn't that strong anymore.
that looks actually good, i wonder why blizz couldn't come up with it... oh wait...
It seems very stupid. If you are playing Big Demons, it is also much stronger than before.
As I said, only BIG cards costed 8 and above would see an improvement. 7-mana cards drawn by Skull, such as the infamous Priestess of Fury, would see a -3 discount exactly as it is now. You're not looking at the bigger picture: 4 and 5-mana cards would be discounted to 2 and 3 with my change, as opposed to the current 1 and 2 respectively. It's not just a buff. Any midrange or BigDemons/control DH would still run A LOT of cards in that range (Metamorphosis, Chaos Nova, Kayn, Raging Felscreamer, the two taunts, hell even Glaivebound Adept). It's not like you're going to put 2x Skull in the deck and fill the rest with 8+mana demons lol.
And besides, "Big Demons" isn't an archetype that's exactly shining right now, so what if it receive a buff? That's just great! While the change would affect Tempo DH (in particular nerfing its Altruis swing turn as explained) which is THE deck that most people consider broken and oppressive. You can't just nerf everything to the ground, something's gotta give.
Thanks for the "very stupid" tho :/
Costs 5, cut cost by 2 - Ye, the next skull would cost 3, but the class should be some OP due having 20% cards of any other class. Besides, I've seen skull by skull played now and before - very rare, and doesn't win the game alone.
In half? Hell, no - rounded down is underpowered, rounded up is overpowered, so there's no balance between other than cut by X. The current version is fine, but with the major tempo loss at 6, the mid solution is Cost 5, cut cost by 2 which much like Battlefiend as a 1/2 - where it should've been to begin with.
The only 2 losses vs DH tempo in last 2 days were with no skulls at all, and they still drew 7+ cards each. For DH big demons / HL it's a different story of a card, I barely see those though.
In My opinion, a good nerf could be : 6 mana - "Draw 3 cards, Outcast: The spells you draw will cost 3 less"
Agreed
Wait I'm not following you here, you meant the opposite, right? Half cost rounded down (as in: a 3-mana card would cost 1) would be more powerful than rounded up (a 3 -mana card would cost 2) which was my idea.
Assuming you meant viceversa, I put "rounded up" in my suggested change and I don't see how it would be underpowered if not by nerfing aggro, which was the idea here. At 5 mana you'd get a better deal without Outcast - which is great for archetypes that don't just vomit their low-cost hand to activate Skull on turn 6. Plus, even by cutting in half (rounded up) in Outcast, which you consider underpowered, it means you'd get 2 mana discount on 4-5 cost cards (which is still strong imho), 3 discount on 6-7 cost cards (as it is now), and 4 discount on 8-9 cost cards (better than it is currently), and a whopping 5 mana discount on a 10 cost card.
The idea is to make the card better for midrange/control archetypes, while making it worse as an "hail mary refill your hand and win the game with Altruis" for aggro. Paying 0 for 1-3 cost cards is a bit too much.
Since big demon is not shining now, this doesn't mean that will not in the future. As I said, your proposal, in my opinion, it is stupid. The card is fine as it is now, this fix is not elegant, it is a mess. Also because, if you are a new player this card cannot be understood (in your way).
Lmao "a good nerf" are you serious? That's how you completely kill the card.
Excuse my English, but in "rounded up" I meant the discount of that half, so 7 turns to 4 discount, and card cost becomes 3. It's OP and unbalanced. Just take a "Certain" 7 cost which would become 3, and it'd have get another nerf and this time to oblivion (either of the two).
As things stand NOW - there aren't enough 8+ cost cards for DH, but there are more than enough 1-3 costs that would lose from that half cost, especially if the COST is rounded up (original 5 becoming 3). You cut their resources of power in chain reaction (and as OP as it is, it's ok).
This is while the effect suggested at 5 cost will end with HL/control DHers running Mage/Priest curve and fetching a 9-10 cost card (which becomes 5) and playing it the same turn with 2 more cut-cost cards. Original idea with skull at 6 is sort of fair, because you can't play those, but you could still play 7-8 costs, and the 8-cost gained 1 mana reduction. Again, not enough of a pool, so I'm still pro-cut X cost to all.
Altruis can bite it. Yeah, it's strong, yeah it wins, but she's an OP legendary as this OP class should have. It rotates first, so give her the benefit of the doubt she earned her place for this round. Slices are her engine, it's not enough, skull does what it should with her.
Ok I understand what you're saying now, I meant rounding up the final cost (ie 3 divided in half = 1.5 rounded up becomes 2), and yeah I imagined it that way also because otherwise that "certain 7 cost card" would go down to 3 and suggesting that would certainly cause an outrage lol.
As for the rest of your post, I understand where you're coming from - as stated in another post above, I do like the DH class in general, and I also like Altruis (wait is it a she?) - my point here was suggesting a change that isn't completely ridiculous, if they absolutely need to change it again. A lot of people are still complaining about Skull, in part even rightly so... but hey, leave it to Blizzard for another round of nerfs. They'll just slap another extra cost on the card, nerf it to oblivion and call it a day as they usually do :/ Or leave it to DH haters and they'll just go bonkers with things like the discount only applying in Outcast and only to drawn spell LMAO. Still think that going back to 5-mana and cutting the cost to half rounded up is a good middle ground.
Drawing 3 cards should cost at least 3 mana, and discounting by 3 is way too convenient on minions (especially for DH) but is ok on spells...let's say that maybe 5 mana cost is better.
Another possible change is to discount by 2 but maintaining the 6 mana cost. In my opinion, the problem with the card is that you can discount too many cards especially if you draw the second skull: this allow to set insane turns basically without renouncing to anything. In general, the problem with DH is that they get advantages without sacrificing too much (usually nothing!).
Sorry...double post...
I actually looked it up and it appears that you're right, in terms of winrate Skull is the worst card in the deck. HSreplay has the played winrate of Skull at 56.6% in comparison to the deck's 64% winrate.
Uhm what? In itself, drawing 3 cards is about fairly costed at 5. Drawing a card is typically worth 1.5 mana (see Arcane Intellect, or cards like Novice Engineer which is 0.5 worth of a body with a cycle attached). The problem is that "fair" doesn't cut it anymore. 5-mana draw 3 would maybe see play even in other classes, but 6-mana draw 3 definitely wouldn't, unless you have a way to significantly discount spells. Too slow and gigantic tempo loss. As proof, not only Druids are not running Nourish, despite drawing cards and ramping being their main plan even nowadays, but it has also never been an autoinclude (and it used to cost 5!).
You can't possibly be serious with your suggestion of the discounts only working on spells. C'mon. It already has a significant condition for the discount to activate (Outcast). Making it only work IF outcasted and IF you happen to draw spells is absolutely ridiculous for a 6-mana card. You might as well delete the card from the game, or wait for a Spell-only DH archetype to emerge... lol
I'm also not sure what's this obsession is with Skull drawing another Skull. Not only it doesn't happen that often (about as often as Wondrous Wand drawing a 0-cost Galakrond I'd say...), but most importantly, it's not even that desirable in Tempo DH. What you want to "hit" with Skull are small costed minions and spells, both to refill the board (any 3 or less cost minion and especially Satyr Overseer in combination with Twin Slice) and/or draw some more (Spectral Sight, Crimson Sigil Runner), all while fueling Altruis. If you actually played the deck, you'd realize you don't want to draw Skull into Skull about 90% of the times.
It should be 6 mana draw 3 cards - Outcast, costs 4 mana.
Reducing the cost by that much is stupid. Even at 6 mana its a -3 mana draw 3 cards.