This is the way I like to think about prime cards:
Meh normal & Meh prime: not worth it
Meh normal & Good prime: not worth it unless you have tons of draw, games go very long or you can tutor the prime
Good normal & Meh prime: worth it
Good normal & Good prime: worth it
Note 1: in this thought experiment, we are playing them in archetypes that make some sense for them, which is why they are all at least Meh. For example, when we talk about Kargath Bladefist, it's not in the context of pirate warrior.
Note 2: in the case of highlander decks, Meh's can be worth it because there are fewer good options.
Thoughts on this classification? Is it too simplistic? is it just plain wrong? If you agree with it, what do you think each of them is?
I also really don't like Reliquary of Souls... Would probably put it in the double "meh" category or the good prime, bad normal category. It's only really seeing play imo because priest has no better options.
I crafted the warlock and warrior primes. I hope to open the rest of them from packs, already got paladin prime. I think every prime except shaman will see play.
If we continue your theme of placing them into meh or good categories while ALSO in decks that make sense for them, there would be quite a few adjustments to them.
Meh normal and meh prime - Vashj, Murgur
Meh normal and good prime - Zixor, Solarian
Good normal and meh prime - Archspore, Akama. Both of these are actually disappointing to be in this category. I had such high hopes for Akama, but a permanently stealthed 6/5 just isn't impactful enough, especially since the game is usually over by the time you draw him. And a 9/9 with Rush and Taunt is kinda mediocre. It should have been two 9/9s.
Good normal and good prime - Reliquary, Kanrethad, Kargath. A 4/4 with Rush for 4 mana is by no means bad. And Reliquary Prime in Rez Priest is a nightmare.
Also, I wrote this at 3:30 in the morning - I couldn't be bothered naming the cards properly.
Fair enough, although I think it can pass as good because of the murloc tag.
I also really don't like Reliquary of Souls... Would probably put it in the double "meh" category or the good prime, bad normal category. It's only really seeing play imo because priest has no better options.
You're right, I think Meh normal & Good prime is more appropiate
Good normal and meh prime - Archspore, Akama. Both of these are actually disappointing to be in this category. I had such high hopes for Akama, but a permanently stealthed 6/5 just isn't impactful enough, especially since the game is usually over by the time you draw him. And a 9/9 with Rush and Taunt is kinda mediocre. It should have been two 9/9s.
Yeah I think you're right about akama. I haven't seen him played yet (haven't faced much rogue), but given the DH meta it's probably too slow.
Good normal and good prime - Reliquary, Kanrethad, Kargath. A 4/4 with Rush for 4 mana is by no means bad. And Reliquary Prime in Rez Priest is a nightmare.
My reasoning for putting kargath as Meh was Restless Mummy, but yeah, 4 mana 4/4 rush is pretty decent.
All Primes are meh, because you have draw them twice. They are no build around cards. But you could put them in any deck and if you get value out of them it's fine, and if not you lost nothing...
Being worse than one of the most universally powerful 2 drops doesn't make something bad. And the murloc tag is generally worth a little more than a mech tag, so the difference in power between the 2 is very small. 2 attack divine shield is also very good in the current meta which is full of demon hunters.
I think Vashj Prime is a little bit better than good. It's an unconditional Skull of Gul'dan that tutors and comes with a 5/4 body. The spell damage is also worth more than usual because you're drawing cheap damage spells to go with it. Burn shaman has been a real deck a couple of times, and in those decks Vashj prime would be one draw for 12 or more damage. I think she's the single best prime in a vacuum, but has easily the worst normal, and shaman just doesn't have enough draw to get there.
I'd definitely put Zixor in the good normal / meh prime group rather than the opposite.
2/4 rush for 3 mana is really solid, and the beast tag is significant. Curved out from Scanvenger's Ingenuity it's a huge threat on turn 3.
Zixor Prime is only "good" in a vacuum. In practice, he isn't particularly good for 2 reasons. First, at turn 8 with Hunter you're either about to wrap up the game or the threats are too big for 4/4s. Second, you just almost never draw it lol. Hunter doesn't have the massive card draw of other classes and the games are fairly quick even with Highlander Hunter, arguably the slowest Hunter deck ever. Rarely go beyond turn 10 unless vs Priest. There's no time to draw base Zixor, have it die, and redraw the prime.
Unless some kind of deck emerges with just Zixor as a beast and 2 Scavenger's, I just don't see the prime ever shining.
Probably not very accurate, the meta isn't stable and I've yet to see all of them played to better gauge their impact.
I don't think kargath or solarian have meh base forms. A 4/4 with rush for 4 mana is pretty decent and while there is also the rush mummy well having yet another mid game rusher is nice. And then solarian has vanilla stats for a 2 drop and has an effect that's useful for aggro, tempo and control decks.
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This is the way I like to think about prime cards:
Note 1: in this thought experiment, we are playing them in archetypes that make some sense for them, which is why they are all at least Meh. For example, when we talk about Kargath Bladefist, it's not in the context of pirate warrior.
Note 2: in the case of highlander decks, Meh's can be worth it because there are fewer good options.
Thoughts on this classification? Is it too simplistic? is it just plain wrong? If you agree with it, what do you think each of them is?
I forgot to add what I think each of them is:
Probably not very accurate, the meta isn't stable and I've yet to see all of them played to better gauge their impact.
Murgur Murgurgle is not a good normal. It's directly worse than Shielded Minibot.
I also really don't like Reliquary of Souls... Would probably put it in the double "meh" category or the good prime, bad normal category. It's only really seeing play imo because priest has no better options.
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I crafted the warlock and warrior primes. I hope to open the rest of them from packs, already got paladin prime. I think every prime except shaman will see play.
If we continue your theme of placing them into meh or good categories while ALSO in decks that make sense for them, there would be quite a few adjustments to them.
Meh normal and meh prime - Vashj, Murgur
Meh normal and good prime - Zixor, Solarian
Good normal and meh prime - Archspore, Akama. Both of these are actually disappointing to be in this category. I had such high hopes for Akama, but a permanently stealthed 6/5 just isn't impactful enough, especially since the game is usually over by the time you draw him. And a 9/9 with Rush and Taunt is kinda mediocre. It should have been two 9/9s.
Good normal and good prime - Reliquary, Kanrethad, Kargath. A 4/4 with Rush for 4 mana is by no means bad. And Reliquary Prime in Rez Priest is a nightmare.
Also, I wrote this at 3:30 in the morning - I couldn't be bothered naming the cards properly.
Fair enough, although I think it can pass as good because of the murloc tag.
You're right, I think Meh normal & Good prime is more appropiate
Yeah I think you're right about akama. I haven't seen him played yet (haven't faced much rogue), but given the DH meta it's probably too slow.
My reasoning for putting kargath as Meh was Restless Mummy, but yeah, 4 mana 4/4 rush is pretty decent.
All Primes are meh, because you have draw them twice. They are no build around cards. But you could put them in any deck and if you get value out of them it's fine, and if not you lost nothing...
Scavenger's Ingenuity -> Zixor is pretty nice.
Being worse than one of the most universally powerful 2 drops doesn't make something bad. And the murloc tag is generally worth a little more than a mech tag, so the difference in power between the 2 is very small. 2 attack divine shield is also very good in the current meta which is full of demon hunters.
2 manas 3/2 spell damage is good not meh (meh if was 2/2 or cost 3 manas).
7 manas 7/7 spell damage and very likely clear the opponent board is awesome, until now the card never backfire and recover 3 lost games, good.
I think Vashj Prime is a little bit better than good. It's an unconditional Skull of Gul'dan that tutors and comes with a 5/4 body. The spell damage is also worth more than usual because you're drawing cheap damage spells to go with it. Burn shaman has been a real deck a couple of times, and in those decks Vashj prime would be one draw for 12 or more damage. I think she's the single best prime in a vacuum, but has easily the worst normal, and shaman just doesn't have enough draw to get there.
I'd definitely put Zixor in the good normal / meh prime group rather than the opposite.
2/4 rush for 3 mana is really solid, and the beast tag is significant. Curved out from Scanvenger's Ingenuity it's a huge threat on turn 3.
Zixor Prime is only "good" in a vacuum. In practice, he isn't particularly good for 2 reasons. First, at turn 8 with Hunter you're either about to wrap up the game or the threats are too big for 4/4s. Second, you just almost never draw it lol. Hunter doesn't have the massive card draw of other classes and the games are fairly quick even with Highlander Hunter, arguably the slowest Hunter deck ever. Rarely go beyond turn 10 unless vs Priest. There's no time to draw base Zixor, have it die, and redraw the prime.
Unless some kind of deck emerges with just Zixor as a beast and 2 Scavenger's, I just don't see the prime ever shining.
Solarian Prime is way better than "good". It's arguably the best Prime there is, it shouldn't sit together in the same tier as 6 others.
Also let's be real, small body doesn't matter, with Prime broken enough we would be all playing those as a 1/1s.
I don't think kargath or solarian have meh base forms. A 4/4 with rush for 4 mana is pretty decent and while there is also the rush mummy well having yet another mid game rusher is nice. And then solarian has vanilla stats for a 2 drop and has an effect that's useful for aggro, tempo and control decks.