I guess you can say the design is not very good, since it feels too much like a highroll if you can draw and play it early, but that goes for any deck-buffing ability, not unlike Lady in White. As far as that is concerned, I don't really like it either, but more because it's just not much fun to play against.
To be sure, no one is arguing that this will be a consistent card. That is what makes it bad design. It's extremely potent when played, but it's a legendary that (as far as I can tell) cannot be tutored out. The comparison to Keleseth has nothing to do with use cases, but overall effect on the meta.
People will obviously feel it's worth including because the payoff is so huge, especially in long-game decks. And in those decks, when drawn early, it's going to be extremely polarizing. Not because it's a thoughtful, strategic play, but because it's a no-brainer inclusion in the vast majority of Dragon-heavy decks, and you just happened to be lucky enough to draw it.
So the argument is: VERY powerful when drawn + VERY inconsistent = VERY bad for the meta.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
It's very good but I dunno if the 2 mana discount is as powerful as people think, aside from being played on curve with the right follow up draw, or as a combo enabler. For sure a must craft for dragon decks, but I wonder if people are overestimating it's value. On curve it's great, but the more you miss that the worse it and the deck it's in becomes, since it doesn't discount your hand and I assume this will be in expensive dragon decks, since it's not that good if it only hits one or two smallish dragons.
I'm gonna play this card and 29 dragons just for the fun of it. This effect is so OP. Malygos is back in the meta for sure.
Poor Dragon Consort, that's not even powercreep anymore that's just rape.
Dragon's Consort is very different from Frizz. First off it's a dragon so it helps with dragon synergies. Second if you need the mana reduction for a combo then this doesn't depend on draw order. It isn't power creep at all.
I'm gonna play this card and 29 dragons just for the fun of it. This effect is so OP. Malygos is back in the meta for sure.
Poor Dragon Consort, that's not even powercreep anymore that's just rape.
Dragon's Consort is very different from Frizz. First off it's a dragon so it helps with dragon synergies. Second if you need the mana reduction for a combo then this doesn't depend on draw order. It isn't power creep at all.
Because dragon consort is totally a part of a combo deck.
Dude come on. There's a 5 mana card that gives a 2 mana reduction to 1 dragon. And there's a 4 mana card that gives a 2 mana reduction to up to 20 dragons.
So the argument is: VERY powerful when drawn + VERY inconsistent = VERY bad for the meta.
Well, I even argue with the first part of that equation. It is very powerful, but not on turn 4 (since you just play a 5/4), not on turn 5 (because at the very best you draw a good on-curve reduced dragon that you need to stabilize), possibly not even on turn 6. Around turn 7, 8 or later, that's when the effect could win you games, I think, after you have stabilized and can continuously play strong minions with great mana efficiency.
Could that be a strong deck? Sure it can. But I don't think it will be super unfair outside of best case scenarios, and I wouldn't compare it to Prince Keleseth or old Barnes. The former had an effect you would usually feel within the next one or two turns already, and made games end rather quickly. The latter was so massive that it could sometimes decide games right on the spot, summoning Y'Shaarj or a high-impact minion that could be revived multiple times.
Neither of these will happen with this card. It will no doubt boost the winrate of its deck, but it won't show right away. Not in a way that you would say "oh great, my opponent had it on 4, no way I can win this", as it oftentimes was with Barnes. And I'd just wait and see for now what decks come out of it. Again, depends on what else the set has in store, but for now, I don't think it is as scary as some people make it seem.
So the argument is: VERY powerful when drawn + VERY inconsistent = VERY bad for the meta.
Well, I even argue with the first part of that equation. It is very powerful, but not on turn 4 (since you just play a 5/4), not on turn 5 (because at the very best you draw a good on-curve reduced dragon that you need to stabilize), possibly not even on turn 6. Around turn 7, 8 or later, that's when the effect could win you games, I think, after you have stabilized and can continuously play strong minions with great mana efficiency.
Could that be a strong deck? Sure it can. But I don't think it will be super unfair outside of best case scenarios, and I wouldn't compare it to Prince Keleseth or old Barnes. The former had an effect you would usually feel within the next one or two turns already, and made games end rather quickly. The latter was so massive that it could sometimes decide games right on the spot, summoning Y'Shaarj or a high-impact minion that could be revived multiple times.
Neither of these will happen with this card. It will no doubt boost the winrate of its deck, but it won't show right away. Not in a way that you would say "oh great, my opponent had it on 4, no way I can win this", as it oftentimes was with Barnes. And I'd just wait and see for now what decks come out of it. Again, depends on what else the set has in store, but for now, I don't think it is as scary as some people make it seem.
Bang on with the Keleseth comparison, I've played a ton of Keleseth Rogue (and a few other variants) since it came out, and still do, the thing that makes Keleseth rogue viable is your deck is practically ALL minions. How many dragons will you run with this in your deck? I legit think people have not even considered this; yes mana cheat is busted and the card is strong, but it will require specific deckbuilding, that may turn out to be not as strong as you think. I sincerely hope it doesn't become meta defining, because that will be a shit meta...but we've already had a historically shit meta so I guess it's par for the course.
tl;dr Keleseth was good cause your deck was all minions, would an all dragon, or near all dragon deck work with this in it? Doubt it, overrated card.
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If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
So the argument is: VERY powerful when drawn + VERY inconsistent = VERY bad for the meta.
Well, I even argue with the first part of that equation. It is very powerful, but not on turn 4 (since you just play a 5/4), not on turn 5 (because at the very best you draw a good on-curve reduced dragon that you need to stabilize), possibly not even on turn 6. Around turn 7, 8 or later, that's when the effect could win you games, I think, after you have stabilized and can continuously play strong minions with great mana efficiency.
Could that be a strong deck? Sure it can. But I don't think it will be super unfair outside of best case scenarios, and I wouldn't compare it to Prince Keleseth or old Barnes. The former had an effect you would usually feel within the next one or two turns already, and made games end rather quickly. The latter was so massive that it could sometimes decide games right on the spot, summoning Y'Shaarj or a high-impact minion that could be revived multiple times.
Neither of these will happen with this card. It will no doubt boost the winrate of its deck, but it won't show right away. Not in a way that you would say "oh great, my opponent had it on 4, no way I can win this", as it oftentimes was with Barnes. And I'd just wait and see for now what decks come out of it. Again, depends on what else the set has in store, but for now, I don't think it is as scary as some people make it seem.
Fair points. However, a rejoinder: The comparison to Barnes is not applicable. As you rightly note, drawing Y'Shaarj or the like could = auto win. This is not such a card. I would put this more as a Prince Keleseth equivalent. Like Dr. 2, there is a deck design constraint (Keleseth only worked without other 2 cost minions; with this, you need to play dragons). It can be debated if it's more impactful to have the constraint be "no 2-cost cards" or "it only works on dragons," but I'd argue they're similar. With both of them, you can see impact on your next draw. Even if you draw a low cast dragon, you can gain much valued tempo.
Also, you might be right re: it's impact on Standard, but I'm also thinking about Wild here.
Just some thoughts. Cheers!
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Dragon Breeder makes a lot more sense now, because you can combo it way easier, even with 9+ mana dragons.
Dragoncaster is not even a dragon. And you can still cast Pocket Galaxy on 5, if you coin out a Naga Sand Witch.
To be sure, no one is arguing that this will be a consistent card. That is what makes it bad design. It's extremely potent when played, but it's a legendary that (as far as I can tell) cannot be tutored out. The comparison to Keleseth has nothing to do with use cases, but overall effect on the meta.
People will obviously feel it's worth including because the payoff is so huge, especially in long-game decks. And in those decks, when drawn early, it's going to be extremely polarizing. Not because it's a thoughtful, strategic play, but because it's a no-brainer inclusion in the vast majority of Dragon-heavy decks, and you just happened to be lucky enough to draw it.
So the argument is: VERY powerful when drawn + VERY inconsistent = VERY bad for the meta.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
if you are playing a lot of dragons obviously you will play this too.
Its a forced archetype card and I dont like those
It's very good but I dunno if the 2 mana discount is as powerful as people think, aside from being played on curve with the right follow up draw, or as a combo enabler. For sure a must craft for dragon decks, but I wonder if people are overestimating it's value. On curve it's great, but the more you miss that the worse it and the deck it's in becomes, since it doesn't discount your hand and I assume this will be in expensive dragon decks, since it's not that good if it only hits one or two smallish dragons.
Dragon's Consort is very different from Frizz. First off it's a dragon so it helps with dragon synergies. Second if you need the mana reduction for a combo then this doesn't depend on draw order. It isn't power creep at all.
This + shadow step x2 + daring escape + sprint or any other draw and we are in for a ride
OP AF
because 5 mana for Luna’s Pocket Galaxy was too much and it really needed a 5/4 body.
It's straight up broken in combination with the other new cards we've seen. Jesus. This set.
What is the ponit in calling it power creep anymore? It's more like power charge. There is nothing subtle about it.
I play first I win.
yea right, not returning to hs afterall...
Are they really going to print this card? Theres so many op cards already going out this expansion this one seems so broken
Because dragon consort is totally a part of a combo deck.
Dude come on. There's a 5 mana card that gives a 2 mana reduction to 1 dragon. And there's a 4 mana card that gives a 2 mana reduction to up to 20 dragons.
Well, I even argue with the first part of that equation. It is very powerful, but not on turn 4 (since you just play a 5/4), not on turn 5 (because at the very best you draw a good on-curve reduced dragon that you need to stabilize), possibly not even on turn 6. Around turn 7, 8 or later, that's when the effect could win you games, I think, after you have stabilized and can continuously play strong minions with great mana efficiency.
Could that be a strong deck? Sure it can. But I don't think it will be super unfair outside of best case scenarios, and I wouldn't compare it to Prince Keleseth or old Barnes. The former had an effect you would usually feel within the next one or two turns already, and made games end rather quickly. The latter was so massive that it could sometimes decide games right on the spot, summoning Y'Shaarj or a high-impact minion that could be revived multiple times.
Neither of these will happen with this card. It will no doubt boost the winrate of its deck, but it won't show right away. Not in a way that you would say "oh great, my opponent had it on 4, no way I can win this", as it oftentimes was with Barnes. And I'd just wait and see for now what decks come out of it. Again, depends on what else the set has in store, but for now, I don't think it is as scary as some people make it seem.
Bang on with the Keleseth comparison, I've played a ton of Keleseth Rogue (and a few other variants) since it came out, and still do, the thing that makes Keleseth rogue viable is your deck is practically ALL minions. How many dragons will you run with this in your deck? I legit think people have not even considered this; yes mana cheat is busted and the card is strong, but it will require specific deckbuilding, that may turn out to be not as strong as you think. I sincerely hope it doesn't become meta defining, because that will be a shit meta...but we've already had a historically shit meta so I guess it's par for the course.
tl;dr Keleseth was good cause your deck was all minions, would an all dragon, or near all dragon deck work with this in it? Doubt it, overrated card.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
Plot Twist Warlock...
Uh, "ok" , another First Day craft, boring design tho, hence not Golden worthy. I guess either Kronx or Dragonqueen would be the prefered choice.
Insane
Occasionally gives helpful advice.
Fair points. However, a rejoinder: The comparison to Barnes is not applicable. As you rightly note, drawing Y'Shaarj or the like could = auto win. This is not such a card. I would put this more as a Prince Keleseth equivalent. Like Dr. 2, there is a deck design constraint (Keleseth only worked without other 2 cost minions; with this, you need to play dragons). It can be debated if it's more impactful to have the constraint be "no 2-cost cards" or "it only works on dragons," but I'd argue they're similar. With both of them, you can see impact on your next draw. Even if you draw a low cast dragon, you can gain much valued tempo.
Also, you might be right re: it's impact on Standard, but I'm also thinking about Wild here.
Just some thoughts. Cheers!