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Card Design ChampionFirstly, you don't need to wait 14 turns for 14 minions to die. On Turn 5+ you might be playing 2 or even 3 minions each turn.
Secondly, you can't criticise this card on the assumption that Paladin control wouldn't be viable in the new meta. I think we should give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt and assume that control decks will have a place in the meta. Otherwise, your criticisms of Bolvar can be levied at any other slow card.
I imagine so
Here are my three ideas for Paladin Cards.
Little Ol' Tank is a great early game minion that screams value. If you attack anything with it, it will either trade favorably, or just get Divine Shield. Both are great outcomes. However it itself doesn't spawn with Divine Shield, so it might not be as good later in the game.
Spawn Noise: Try and put a dent in me!
Attack Noise: INVINCIBLE!
Death Noise: I DIDN'T MEAN IT!
Basically Aldor but on steroids. You can swap this minion's attack with an enemy minion, which is basically giving the enemy minion "can't attack". If the enemy doesn't have any high priority targets, this minion isn't that good. Like if you are facing off against zoo, you might expect this guy to turn into a 3/5 and changing an enemy health to 1. Which is honestly pretty good. However, it isn't great when the enemy has nothing on the board.
Spawn Noise: Don't you move a muscle.
Attack Noise: STAY DOWN!
Death Noise: Augh! They got me!
Basically makes any of your weapons super powerful. It even changes a Light's Justice from a measly 1/4 to a 3/5!
However it is still good without a weapon, and it gives you a guaranteed 3/2 weapon.
Spawn Noise: Feel the fury of the mountain!
Attack Noise: For Khaz'Modan!
Death Noise: AAAAAUGH!
These are the cards I wish would happen instead of the cards we've been getting besides CogHammer, Purifier, and Muster for Battle.
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Card Design ChampionIf a GvG legendary is not "OP", it will not even be crafted for months until everyone's got the cards they need for the meta.
I feel like, this is card that you will never want to play on curve. I"d hold him in hand for a while, I'd rather have him as my last threat, where he has the lowest chance to be simply counter played out with a silence, so I can watch my opponent shit their pants as he drops with 14+ attack
Legendary cards are notorious for being unreliable, So....Don't rely on it...
However with my Paladin deck, i've come up with situations where I've got Sea giants and Frostwolf Warlords in my hand, and as soon as I'm about to play them, I get board cleared...So I can only do weak plays. This is a card that enables you to do make a strong recovery after a board wipe. for only 5 Mana.
Not many cards are capable of doing that, molten giant maybe, but you have to be dangerously low on health for that.
I just think it is too slow, even in an aggro deck, Sure it can be a AOE insurance but that is why we have deathrattle minions like Nerubian egg. This is not what you want to be doing in a aggro deck...waiting for a big minion to come down that does not have an immediate effect. I can only see it working in a control deck that is very slow with some minions with taunt. The problem with this is that faster decks will punish slower decks.
Also I didn't say that Pali control is not viable in the new meta, Just a really slow, greedy version of the control deck wouldn't be viable if mech decks become a thing they will be very zoo like. you do not wanna be wasting a turn playing a minion that does not affect the board immediately. This is why Cairne Bloodhoof is bad in aggro matchups, it does not do anything for a turn which is bad. Control decks will have a place in the meta as they do now.
I am Ozymandias, King of Kings
@Darvonovich you were wrong about this card affecting the whole board (let alone release date) but now you have some insider info about a synergy card that will work with this?
Yeah... seems legit...
and when you draw him late game? ...he is worthless. No card, let alone a legendary, and one that costs that much mana should be worthless if topdecked later... which this is. Making it an unriliable gimmick.
Plain and Simple. This card will hurt you more then it helps you on average. In 10 games you might get a resonable draw with him early in hand that isnt against agro that lets you set him up to use him and then your opponent doesnt have taunt/hex/silence/freeze. Average game lenght is typically 10 minutes. In an hour a half of this card hurting you one game might work out, and even then this is not a game changer... its just a thick minion that most decks can deal with on a topdeck they are waiting for or your are already so far ahead it doesnt really matter because the game is pretty much over.
"and when you draw him late game? ...he is worthless. No card, let alone a legendary, and one that costs that much mana should be worthless if topdecked later... which this is. Making it an unriliable gimmick. "
Is he really worthless late game? He only needs 4~ minions to die to be worth it and that's not too hard, especially since you have your Hero Power. Sure, maybe if you topdeck him without a board and without cards in hand, but even Tirion isn't great in those situations unless you can Ashbringer lethal the foe or they just happen to have not even a remotely decent trading answer to it.
I am not sure Bolvar is even worth playing, outside Arena anyway, but unless he is like the last card in your Deck IDK if he is a bad topdeck late game, and plenty of cards are bad topdecks last card (Lay on Hands!).
Here's an extremely prototype Deck that utilizies Bolvar Fordragon in it, though IDK if it is good: Similiar to my Warlocks Floaters United idea, you have a bunch of creatures that trade effectively, are sticky and will generally not be removed 1-for-1, making it tough on control and faster to get board control from aggro. With all these minions who summon other minions and stuff like Muster For Battle, Bolvar is easy to get big from this and the numerous silence options ensure he is either not silenced or he has to be silenced over other premium targets.
It is still very rough because I wanted to show concept, though: For example, I still need to find stuff to cut for Equalities (Probably the 2 Dark Iron) and maybe room for some extra 2-drops (Wild Pyro?). And Ysera might be preferable to Sneed's, though this seems like a solid Sneed's deck. Could also use Undertaker due to the high Deathrattle count, but since a fair deal are larger dudes IDK if good idea.
"even tirion isnt great"
Right, tirion is not a great top deck. he is only one of the best top decks short of ysera and rag. Yes, he(Bolvar) is worthless late game, no question at all about... Do you think you opponent is just going to sit there while you draw him(dont play him) then hero power out the next 4 10 mana turns??
I am beyond sure he is not worth playing and you will NEVER see him in a competitive constructed deck, not even a chance. He is bad in arena to quite frankly. Arena is about getting quality out on the board and value. There is no value on sitting on a 5 mana card that may or may not grow before you die and is easily silenced.
Frankly he isnt even worth talking about anymore. he is a boring vanilla card. the ONLY thing worth talkng about in relation to him is the new in hand mechanic in general and if that will be something they expand about with actual cards worth playing.
way. way to slow. and in a deck like that? what is Bolvar even doing... he is a win more card. You will never build his stats with those high cost cards. That is the problem with him... he doesnt even provide taunt/card draw/spell power to warrant anything more then another minion. Better off getting rid of him and putting in an argent commander to help get you to late game vs midrange decks. Aggro will burn through that before turn 7.
Also, where is COG one of the best cards in the entire game. synergize with egg or watcher. NOW THAT is a combo worth mulliganing for.... not vanilla stats like bolvar and then spending mana hoping your minions die and lose board.
The only way you can get good value for him is if you get him in your starting hand with 2-3 1 drops or something like that so that you can make him at least a 5-7 by turn 5 which still isn't that great. Definitely an underwhelming card (which is why I voted for the lock card :P)
Its a bad top deck if they have an owl and hard removal, sure.
Here is my take on an aggro Pally deck.
It would be deathrattle focused and have tons of minions dying. Bolvar would be what you used ONLY when you are out of steam and your opponent has no hard removal or silences. They are supposed to use those on the sludgebelchers and warlord.
I don't like the scarlet purifier in that deck. He just seems like a dead card in an aggro deck that has a ton of deathrattles.
You obviously wouldn't play it if you have a valuable deathrattle card like Sludge Belcher on the board, but it works really well with Narubian egg and it isn't horrible if it hits a haunted creeper. Besides, it gives more stacks to Bolvar.
I'm not trying to pass this deck off as "good" I'm trying to find the best deck for Bolvar.
I feel like it's a relatively cool concept in theory, but I'm not too excited by it in practice. It's obviously awful to topdeck, and a very slow card once you get it. What's worse is that whatever type of Paladin you put this in (probably not control but maybe aggro or maybe a new midrange Paladin) is not very likely to have any other BGH targets or one at most, and that means that you will often want to avoid this growing beyond 6/7, at which point it's a relatively unexciting discount Boulderfist Ogre. I mean, at 5 mana you can drop it with Loatheb or Sludge Belcher for a really strong turn (assuming the card gets to grow to a 5/7 or 6/7), but nonetheless ending up a slightly cheaper Boulderfist Ogre that's a million times more awkward to play seems weak. Of course, in a BGH-light metagame or against classes that don't use it this card might turn out quite great. All in all though, I feel very underwhelmed.
bolvar + Loatheb on turn 10 or more
:D