I know if you look closely to the text counterspell counters a spell cast by opponent and flare is a spell so it gets countered. However; should it work like that? Flare is designed to get rid of those secrets, so it should also destroy Counterspell as well right?
Personally I am still not sure what the right interaction should be. Counterspell is one of the most annoying (probably together with Ice Block) secrets in the game and it might be good to have some more tools to deal with it. However, Flare only costs 2 mana and does 3 things. The cardraw from that card alone is already about 1,5 - 2 mana.
Maybe the interaction is fine as it is and the answer to deal with Counterspell is not with Flare, or maybe the cards need a workover?
I see your argument here which is valid, but i would say the only reason why it gets countered is that technically you play counterspell first so it would, so that would be the spell which acts first if you wanna be technical. thats how i see it anyway.
The only reson why Eater of Secrets and other secret destroyers work is because Battlecry triggers BEFORE the card is played. Flare only AFTER its played.
The only reson why Eater of Secrets and other secret destroyers work is because Battlecry triggers BEFORE the card is played. Flare only AFTER its played.
counterspell counters a spell as its being cast...
flare has no effect the moment it has cast, but when it resolves... and counterspell prevents a spell from resolving...
So yes, it should counter!
Pretty much sums it up, cast and resolve exist in hearthstone that's why there are battlecry minions that can eat, destroy and steal secrets before being mirror entititied, potion of polymorphed or exploded by runes, the only reason why this is confusing is because no one in blizzard has even bothered updating the tutorial nor writing some kind of easily accesible rulebook/manual for more advanced interactions. Happens the same with the deathrattle everyone who was playing circa 2015-2016 knows that if multiple deathrattle minions die at the same time their deathrattles trigger in the order they were played, because that was just explained in some patch notes back then, but more recent players have no way of easily retrieving that information. and something similar happens with wild pyro and effect resolving,
@Infirc, yeah I see this alot when an opponent is trying to kill my Sylvannas with their Sylvannas and than messing it up, lol. Real accurate info about how stuff atually works or trigger order is not easily found.
Counterspell says When a spell is cast, which means it activates when you spend mana to play the card. Flare is a spell, and destroying secrets requires the spell to have been successfully cast. Since the countering of the spell casting resolves before flare can do any of its effects, the interaction is working as intended.
It's not the 'destroy secrets' effect that's being countered, it's the casting of the card, regardless of effect.
Flare's text says destroy ALL enemy secrets. No exceptions. So I don't think counterspell should counter it.
Flare's text doesnt matter because its a spell thats getting countered.
BTW Counterspell had a lot of bugs in the past, like spellcasting triggers activating even if the spell was countered, but now its fixed. So its working as intended.
Should Counterspell counter Flare?
I know if you look closely to the text counterspell counters a spell cast by opponent and flare is a spell so it gets countered. However; should it work like that? Flare is designed to get rid of those secrets, so it should also destroy Counterspell as well right?
Personally I am still not sure what the right interaction should be. Counterspell is one of the most annoying (probably together with Ice Block) secrets in the game and it might be good to have some more tools to deal with it. However, Flare only costs 2 mana and does 3 things. The cardraw from that card alone is already about 1,5 - 2 mana.
Maybe the interaction is fine as it is and the answer to deal with Counterspell is not with Flare, or maybe the cards need a workover?
What is your opinion on this topic?
I see your argument here which is valid, but i would say the only reason why it gets countered is that technically you play counterspell first so it would, so that would be the spell which acts first if you wanna be technical. thats how i see it anyway.
Technically... Yes and no both... Damn... Not sure..
counterspell counters a spell as its being cast...
flare has no effect the moment it has cast, but when it resolves... and counterspell prevents a spell from resolving...
So yes, it should counter!
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
Counterspell removes the effect of spells. Flare is a spell, thus everything works as intended.
The only reson why Eater of Secrets and other secret destroyers work is because Battlecry triggers BEFORE the card is played. Flare only AFTER its played.
Always expect the unexpectable!
This. It's a question of triggers.
spells are first cast, then their effects resolve. so yes
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
60% yes 40% no so far. Fun discussion. I would like to hear from the people who voted no.
Technically it should. But it isn't intuitive since Flare's purpose is to counter Secrets. So I'd like that interaction changed personally.
Flare is a shitty card, and it has a cool effect and I want it to be better
Flare's text says destroy ALL enemy secrets. No exceptions. So I don't think counterspell should counter it.
Flare = spell
COUNTERspell
Secrets should be classified as secrets rather than spells. Then it would work as it should.
Pretty much sums it up, cast and resolve exist in hearthstone that's why there are battlecry minions that can eat, destroy and steal secrets before being mirror entititied, potion of polymorphed or exploded by runes, the only reason why this is confusing is because no one in blizzard has even bothered updating the tutorial nor writing some kind of easily accesible rulebook/manual for more advanced interactions.
Happens the same with the deathrattle everyone who was playing circa 2015-2016 knows that if multiple deathrattle minions die at the same time their deathrattles trigger in the order they were played, because that was just explained in some patch notes back then, but more recent players have no way of easily retrieving that information. and something similar happens with wild pyro and effect resolving,
@Infirc, yeah I see this alot when an opponent is trying to kill my Sylvannas with their Sylvannas and than messing it up, lol. Real accurate info about how stuff atually works or trigger order is not easily found.
Are you Confused?
Counterspell says When a spell is cast, which means it activates when you spend mana to play the card. Flare is a spell, and destroying secrets requires the spell to have been successfully cast. Since the countering of the spell casting resolves before flare can do any of its effects, the interaction is working as intended.
It's not the 'destroy secrets' effect that's being countered, it's the casting of the card, regardless of effect.
Flare's text doesnt matter because its a spell thats getting countered.
BTW Counterspell had a lot of bugs in the past, like spellcasting triggers activating even if the spell was countered, but now its fixed. So its working as intended.
I think it's about the sequence of when those spells were played, and Counterspell is always played before Flare.