I just can't see a spot for this card - it's too hard to combo at 4 mana.

At the end of the day, you cannot really look at the combo (4 of 9 classes do not have natural weapons and comboing something with a 4 mana card is difficult early game where most weapons make their appearance).  So you have to ask yourself, is a 4 mana Deadly Shot worth it?  You seem to think so, but the problem I faced in Rogue is that either you run out of cards in your hand or you dead draw.  This really does nothing for helping with a dead hand as sure maybe it will save you 1 turn, but in the long run, if auctioneer isnt entering your hand soon, you probably already lost.  Maybe, I was a bit too harsh on this card, and we will have to see the rest of rogue's cards before judgment as rogue is my favorite class but right now I rather play paladin over it on ladder.

 

5 classes have access to weapons (Warrior, Rogue, Paladin, Shaman and Warlock), and i am not counting Blingtron 3000 .  And even if you don't get to use the combo, this card can get value for a Rogue. I wouldn't use it in Miracle, because Sap's do the job nice, but for tempo rogue it can do nice work. I agree that for any other type of Rogue deck to be viable, there need to be better drawing options.

Quote from Diviner1 »

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But is this card worth running JUST for Spectral Knights?  There needs to be something more here and I wish the combo was something else other than destroying weapons (which was not needed).  Hell, I think even just healing you for like 3-4 as a combo would be better cause it negates some of the self-inflicted damage done by your hero power and maybe could even replace Earthen Ring Far Seer (maybe).

At the end of the day, you cannot really look at the combo (4 of 9 classes do not have natural weapons and comboing something with a 4 mana card is difficult early game where most weapons make their appearance).  So you have to ask yourself, is a 4 mana Deadly Shot worth it?  You seem to think so, but the problem I faced in Rogue is that either you run out of cards in your hand or you dead draw.  This really does nothing for helping with a dead hand as sure maybe it will save you 1 turn, but in the long run, if auctioneer isnt entering your hand soon, you probably already lost.  Maybe, I was a bit too harsh on this card, and we will have to see the rest of rogue's cards before judgment as rogue is my favorite class but right now I rather play paladin over it on ladder.

If it is just about Spectral Knight, no it is not worth it, I agree. What I tried to say: Assassinate isn't used in Rogue because it is expensive and not needed. Rogue (even Miracle) is about Tempo and Sap is the better choice for targetable hard removal. But imagine if Rogue had Deadly Shot instead of Assassinate. Deadly Shot is less epensive, has nice synergy with Sap (board manipulation) and you can get rid of things you don't want to be played again (i.e. because of their Battlecry, i.e. Ancient of Lore). I'm pretty sure Deadly Shot would be played in Miracle Rogue if it exists for Rogue.

What I want to say is, that "Deadly Shot" is better in Rogue than in Hunter (like Gahz'rilla would be better in Warrior). Therefore I already think that a (4) cost Deadly Shot might be worth in Rogue (Preparation).

Now I think that weapons will become more popular in GvG, which makes Sabotage deadly. First of all Paladin will be back in the meta, I'm pretty sure from what I've seen so far. Sabotage is the perfect counter to Coghammer. Warrior will always be there. And getting rid of a Doomhammer is just amazing. I know there are 4 classes that don't even have natural weapons, but I could imagine Druids or Priests running Blingtron 3000 as counter to weapon classes and for own usage of weapons. I could be wrong and the meta could switch to super aggro, but from what I've seen so far I think it will be pretty balanced.

Not drawing into Gadgetzan Auctioneer is a seprate problem imo. Sabotage doesn't make it worse.

Quote from Diviner1 »

Yes, everyone wanting to use this card in Miracle please do.  You guys are already free wins on the ladder, this card will make it even more so.  People saying this card is good obviously do not analyze cards past face value.  Sure, it sounds real good on paper, but in practice good luck getting full or even half value out of this dumpster trash.


How does this card even help rouge?  Rouge's problems right now are lack of draw outside of auctioneer and with auctioneer, rogue then depends on drawing auctioneer early will at the same time not drawing dead draws to survive the early game.  Rogue's early game depends on almost perfect draws while at the same time using its weapon to finish off enemies, which at the cost of life, can be super disadvantageous against hunter and zoo (which are generally free wins against rogue, the matchup is that bad).  They also have the problem of not having enough damage to kill off decks like warrior or priest, which can be frustrating.

What does rogue actually need?  Some sort of decent draw mechanic outside of auctioneer dependence so that Blizzard can nerf the card into the ground while at the same time making rogue viable with new cards and a better engine that does not depend on a "miracle."  This card does not do anything to help it, adds RNG, and is basically assassinate (which is not run in any deck outside of arena), unless you combo a 4 mana card which outside of preparation (a dead draw card outside of auctioneer) cannot be played early (I rather tech an ooze in the deck to deal with weapons anyways).

This card is not what rogue needs.  Rogue will still die to any sort of aggro without perfect draws and good luck finding room for this in miracle anyways. lol

This is as a catch all statement is inaccurate. While hunter may be a 50-50 depending on Undertaker shenanigans and whether you draw a Backstab or not, depending on the variant of Rogue you're playing, Rogue vs. Zoo is grossly in Rogue's favor. Most miracle rogue's have early minions now that can fight for board control, add to that the fact that they have cheap removal and they can keep the board clear while developing their own. I've tried 2 types of miracle rogue, the combo heavy variant that runs 20+ spells and Arcane Golem definitely struggles, but the more common miracle that runs Cold Blood and no real finisher is ridiculously favored against zoo. I don't even draw Gadgetzan in a good % of my wins against them.

Not only that, but the fact that you have minions means you aren't reliant on Auctioneer either. You can survive long enough to draw the Auctioneer and get a good turn off around Turn 8. Tempo Rogue needs good card draw, Miracle Rogue is fine on card draw in its current form assuming you run the standard Azure Drakes, Thalnos, 3-4x Shiv / Fan of Knives, and Auctioneer.

It's bad, but possibly okay in arena, it just makes rogue the superior class to countering weapons.

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Yes, everyone wanting to use this card in Miracle please do.  You guys are already free wins on the ladder, this card will make it even more so.  People saying this card is good obviously do not analyze cards past face value.  Sure, it sounds real good on paper, but in practice good luck getting full or even half value out of this dumpster trash.


How does this card even help rouge?  Rouge's problems right now are lack of draw outside of auctioneer and with auctioneer, rogue then depends on drawing auctioneer early will at the same time not drawing dead draws to survive the early game.  Rogue's early game depends on almost perfect draws while at the same time using its weapon to finish off enemies, which at the cost of life, can be super disadvantageous against hunter and zoo (which are generally free wins against rogue, the matchup is that bad).  They also have the problem of not having enough damage to kill off decks like warrior or priest, which can be frustrating.

What does rogue actually need?  Some sort of decent draw mechanic outside of auctioneer dependence so that Blizzard can nerf the card into the ground while at the same time making rogue viable with new cards and a better engine that does not depend on a "miracle."  This card does not do anything to help it, adds RNG, and is basically assassinate (which is not run in any deck outside of arena), unless you combo a 4 mana card which outside of preparation (a dead draw card outside of auctioneer) cannot be played early (I rather tech an ooze in the deck to deal with weapons anyways).

This card is not what rogue needs.  Rogue will still die to any sort of aggro without perfect draws and good luck finding room for this in miracle anyways. lol

This is as a catch all statement is inaccurate. While hunter may be a 50-50 depending on Undertaker shenanigans and whether you draw a Backstab or not, depending on the variant of Rogue you're playing, Rogue vs. Zoo is grossly in Rogue's favor. Most miracle rogue's have early minions now that can fight for board control, add to that the fact that they have cheap removal and they can keep the board clear while developing their own. I've tried 2 types of miracle rogue, the combo heavy variant that runs 20+ spells and Arcane Golem definitely struggles, but the more common miracle that runs Cold Blood and no real finisher is ridiculously favored against zoo. I don't even draw Gadgetzan in a good % of my wins against them.

Not only that, but the fact that you have minions means you aren't reliant on Auctioneer either. You can survive long enough to draw the Auctioneer and get a good turn off around Turn 8. Tempo Rogue needs good card draw, Miracle Rogue is fine on card draw in its current form assuming you run the standard Azure Drakes, Thalnos, 3-4x Shiv / Fan of Knives, and Auctioneer.

Ya this guy really is clueless on the matchups. Before all of the deathrattle miracle was like 75% against zoo, it's probably more like 55% now but if you think zoo is a free win you are playing rogue wrong. Miracle is also still like 75% vs priest and at least 55% vs warrior. I think hunter is slightly favoured against most miracle decks.

However, the assessment of tempo rogue is correct. I tried hundreds of games trying to make it work and you do just run out of cards too frequently, and if you try to sub in weaker cards with card draw you just can't keep tempo.

Quote from Balckovic »

Why do people always try to justify a rng card, because "it can hit stealth minions". So does Deadly Shot, but is it played....ever? nope. Because RNG sucks balls. 

I happily play Harrison Jones as a vanilla over this card.

Actually deadly shot was a part of midrange hunter decks before naxx, when unleash combos were dominant. It was quite less rng based as you could manipulate the board to your liking.

That being said, rogues don't have unleash combos with hunter's mark. But they do have sap and other cheap removals.

More RNG game, more imprecations...by the way, nice card if combo triggers maybe with preparation and maybe against weapon users - too much if/maybe yet...come on rng