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I just can't see how this will see play. It's bad to average at best in tempo and it's bad in aggro. We might see 1 of them in miracle since it's a cheap preped hard removal late game. It might work if rogue control becomes a thing.
It becomes more playable late game when you are ahead and top decking when you can 4mana minion/sabotage/hero power. But that is more of an arena thing. If you compare it to other cards that rogue has available I think I would prefer to have 1 ooze and 1 sap. Same mana, achieves the same thing and gives me a 3/2 on board. Plus I don't have to play them at the same time and tempo swing is larger.
The big problem with this spell is that its a high cost spell that requires you to play another card first to remove a weapon. So at best its 1 for 1. (ie not tempo). 3 mana would make it lot more playable. In most cases that means its not playable until turn 6/8+ since any turn you play it before that you are gimping yourself or only kill a 2/3 mana creature and not playing one of your own. Turn 5/6/7 are already pretty straight forward in miracle.
I am really surprised that this was not 4 mana, Use your opponents weapon to hit a random enemy minion, opponent takes that damage. Combo destroy opponents weapon and equip it yourself with 1 durability. Which would actually make it a tempo swing card which is what it is trying to be and failing.
It says destroy the minion AND destroy the weapon, so it will kill tirion, see that they have no weapon, then the spell's effect ends. Then Tirion's effect goes off and gives him a weapon.
It's not like earth shock where it explicitly has an order of events which occur.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
I think it's subpar. covers a lot of things but in very different situations.
card art looks weird as well.
Anything that helps against Control Warrior I'm totally for. I hate Control Warrior so much.
Of course, you could kill Tirion and then play this card.
if this card would have been "destroy last minion played by your opponent." combo destroy weapon or something else. would have been better. more than half of the cards exploited are random. it's really getting less interesting. no love for targeting blizz? doesn't mean that the game is pure digital that you have to go to more random stuff. rng is fun but isn't this too much? it's not GvG anymore, its RnG for christ's sake.
People keep highlighting the negatives of "destroy a random enemy minion", but it has some benefits too.
Your druid opponent coin innervates Spectral Knight on turn 3? No problem, just Sabotage it.
Your rogue opponent plays Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Deadly Poison and Conceal? just combo Sabotage out and kill both.
Sure, these are also specific situations, but having it be random vs targeted is not all bad. Rogues have huge trouble with weapons and spectral knights. This deals with both.
Actually Deadly Shot isn't playet not because is RNG, but because current hunter not need that much (if ever need) board control to win. Going further, if cards, whose effect is uncontrollable are bad, then Freezing Trap is worse because not only is RNG for you (you can't control, who will be trapped), but your enemy can just control, who will eat effect.
Going back do Sabotage... this card isn't godlike, in some circumstances Harrison is better (Doomhammer, Jarraxus, Stormforge Axe, Coghammer) in others you're just will choose if you prefer removal or 5/4 body and card draw. I'll probably run 1 Sabotage as a tech card, just because i'm out of dust for Harrison, so i can't choose between these two. And imo Ooze isn't even a thing to compare. Most decks lack slot for that card, because when enemy bring weapons later than in 2 turn, then 3/2 body isn't that significant. Due it's cost it's definitely weak for miracle, because only with prep it gives you time for cycle, what would be rare combo. And if you want bring bit more value vs non weapon classes, then you can always run blingtron 3000. Not sure if it's worth though.
And for discusion about rarity of this card. In Hearthstone most epic cards are just going to fill specific niche, so in best case are situational. Sabotage matches ideally this theme. Other reason to use rarity is to balance arena format (with exception of legendaries, which are to balance consturcted as well with 1 for deck restriction.)
Overall i'm satisfied with Sabotage, maybe not hyped like for Auto-Barber or Ogre Ninja, but still this card isn't disappointing for me.
People keep bashing something before they even try it in a real game. I'm going to be running 1 of this in my miracle rogue to see how it goes. Against things like a T4 giant / drake, spectral knight, or Gahzrilla, I'll be more than happy to have this in my hand. Miracle rogue is much more minion based nowadays to begin with anyway, so not every spell needs to draw you a card. And for those people complaining about not getting a 1-mana spell, they're called Spare Parts.
This reminds me of all the people saying Call Pet is a bad card, I'm willing to bet they'll be eating their words soon enough.
I feel the same way you do. I am definitely trying this in my miracle as well. I was tired of running Harrison and Assassinate was always an interesting option.
I like Sabotage. Could be crushing with the combo against Control Warriors!
This is a very good card. A 1 extra cost Deadly Shot with the combo to destroy weapons? And with the way the Rouge is it won't be hard to use this.
You're right at some point, but not exactly. No one tested this card and judging it, but at least some people jugde cards based on exprience with similar card, overall knowledge about game or exprience from other CCG/TCG. For example i also tested assasinate in miracle. And when it helped with dealing with first giant in handlock or similiar enemies, then i had problem with use second assasinate to kill anything, and overall with drawing full combo. Then i removed 1 of these and tried with only one, but there still was problem, when i was bit more durable against big enemies, but against decks like zoo this card was near complete dead draw. Even against slower decks it was bit to slow to use properly in most cases, stopped my "pressure" and sometimes i don't even get this card to use in time. And i know with prep it's 2 mana kill and draw 2 cards with auctioner. Just problem is, this scenario was to rare to justify use assasinate. And i know that sabotage is cheaper and bit more versalite with option to kill something like Spectral Knight. But still i feel like this card would slow down my draw to much. Still i must give for the upside, there is a posibility to kill something at turn 4, when you just bother to keep board clear, it's just not enogh for me.
I think we can all agree that the cost is the only limiting factor for this spell, since the effects are good enough on their own. It's nice to see that you at least tried using assassinate, and I get your point regarding it being a dead draw against aggro. I guess my points for this card are the following:
The last point in particular is why I think this card will be better than people expect in the expansion, I feel like some people aren't considering that when they look at this card. On the downside, with Mechwarper being a thing, the meta may shift completely to an aggro one which is unfavorable for this obviously. I'll wait and see though, I run 2 Blade Flurry 's and 1 Fan of Knives in mine so I'm a little better on board clears than the standard miracle.
if this was three mana, oh man. i still think this is a very nice card though
i prefer handlock over zoo.
Alot of people are trashing this card, but I like it. Don't forget rogues have access to Preparation, so this could be pretty sick in miracle.
Yes, everyone wanting to use this card in Miracle please do. You guys are already free wins on the ladder, this card will make it even more so. People saying this card is good obviously do not analyze cards past face value. Sure, it sounds real good on paper, but in practice good luck getting full or even half value out of this dumpster trash.
How does this card even help rouge? Rouge's problems right now are lack of draw outside of auctioneer and with auctioneer, rogue then depends on drawing auctioneer early will at the same time not drawing dead draws to survive the early game. Rogue's early game depends on almost perfect draws while at the same time using its weapon to finish off enemies, which at the cost of life, can be super disadvantageous against hunter and zoo (which are generally free wins against rogue, the matchup is that bad). They also have the problem of not having enough damage to kill off decks like warrior or priest, which can be frustrating.
What does rogue actually need? Some sort of decent draw mechanic outside of auctioneer dependence so that Blizzard can nerf the card into the ground while at the same time making rogue viable with new cards and a better engine that does not depend on a "miracle." This card does not do anything to help it, adds RNG, and is basically assassinate (which is not run in any deck outside of arena), unless you combo a 4 mana card which outside of preparation (a dead draw card outside of auctioneer) cannot be played early (I rather tech an ooze in the deck to deal with weapons anyways).
This card is not what rogue needs. Rogue will still die to any sort of aggro without perfect draws and good luck finding room for this in miracle anyways. lol
Yeah, but Rouge is more draw dependent due to all the combos and cheap spells. Sprint is generally too slow and Shiv has minimal impact. Fan of Knives is ok, but it's not great.
I think you're right and wrong at the same time.
Yes, Rogue needs another draw option, but I'm pretty sure, the unrevealed Pirate ("One Eyed Cheat") will bring this (i.e. (4) 3/4 draw cards equal to your weapon's durability). And there's also a legendary waiting. I'm more and more confident that the leaked Trade Prince Gallywix will be more or less real. I know the mechanic of the leaked card was broken, but this was an early alpha version. There are plenty ways they could have changed it from then, like giving Spare Parts or just a mana cristal instead of a Coin.
But this has nothing to do with this card. Sabotage will pretty much become a staple as a 1-of because it adresses lots of Rogue's weaknesses, i.e. killing Spectral Knights. As I said earlier, the random effect makes this card good (better than Assassinate). "Deadly Shot" in Rogue is just awesome because Rogue has so many ways to manipulate the board. Destroying wepons is a bonus in hard matchups (Warrior).
- senti
But is this card worth running JUST for Spectral Knights? There needs to be something more here and I wish the combo was something else other than destroying weapons (which was not needed). Hell, I think even just healing you for like 3-4 as a combo would be better cause it negates some of the self-inflicted damage done by your hero power and maybe could even replace Earthen Ring Far Seer (maybe).
At the end of the day, you cannot really look at the combo (4 of 9 classes do not have natural weapons and comboing something with a 4 mana card is difficult early game where most weapons make their appearance). So you have to ask yourself, is a 4 mana Deadly Shot worth it? You seem to think so, but the problem I faced in Rogue is that either you run out of cards in your hand or you dead draw. This really does nothing for helping with a dead hand as sure maybe it will save you 1 turn, but in the long run, if auctioneer isnt entering your hand soon, you probably already lost. Maybe, I was a bit too harsh on this card, and we will have to see the rest of rogue's cards before judgment as rogue is my favorite class but right now I rather play paladin over it on ladder.