Great response. Wow dude thanx alot for that. Thank you to everyone as well. Im a little confused but get the gist of your explanation. Its not very logical or consistent IMO, the way the End of turn is resolved, however, if it always happens like this, then at least I know that now and can play around this interaction. Thank you once again.
Remember how it used to be that if you pulled Wild Pyromancer from a spell (ie: Oaken Summons) the Pyromancer would ping the board. And they changed it so that all interactions are checked at the beginning of an event so that triggers don't go off unless they were present from the start. Well this is a side-product of that.
Here is whats happening:
End of Turn starts. End of turn consists of two steps. End of Turn interactions are checked. End of Turn interactions are triggered in the order they came onto the battlefield.
End of Turn triggers are checked. Vargoth needs to be resolved. The minions that Betrug gave dies at end of turn needs to be resolved.
End of Turn triggers are resolved. Vargoth casts Plot Twist creating new minions from Betrug's effect but because the end of turn trigger check has already happened the dies at end of turn ability does not resolve for those minions but does for Vargoth and Elysiana because they were present at the beginning of the End of Turn.
Interesting to note here that since Vargoth casts his end of turn then dies it implies that the minion, not Betrug, triggers the dies at end of turn ability. If it was Betrug resolving the ability then Vargoth would die without getting to cast Plot Twist since resolves happen in order and Betrug was on the field first. This means that it does not matter which of Vargoth and Betrug were played. If Vargoth were played the turn before and survived to see Betrug/Plot Twist played the next turn then the same result would happen.
Also, there is a bug here, but not in Hearthstone. Its in HSreplay's deck tracker. Apparently drawing the 2/2 Rush Demon confuses the deck tracker and it shows a blank card then an incorrect card. Your opponent **did** draw Vargoth but they did it immediately after the Rush Demon and so it just shows a blank there then Scargill, which your opponent can't possibly be running since its a Shaman minion. Same thing happened with Archivist Elysiana and it for some reason shows a blank then an Emeriss in hand.
Great response. Wow dude thanx alot for that. Thank you to everyone as well. Im a little confused but get the gist of your explanation. Its not very logical or consistent IMO, the way the End of turn is resolved, however, if it always happens like this, then at least I know that now and can play around this interaction. Thank you once again.
Whether or not it's a bug depends on if the minions ended up dying NEXT turn. If you look at turn 11, the Mountain Giant that Vargoth's Plot Twist summoned the previous turn died when the turn ended. So it still had Betrug's debuff, it's just that the turn already ended before all those minions were summoned so there was no trigger to kill them.
So it's not a bug, it's order of operations. I'm also pretty sure a minion's basic text is programmed to resolve before any external enchantments, so Vargoth doing his effect and then the debuff making him die is the correct order as well.
Whether or not it's a bug depends on if the minions ended up dying NEXT turn. If you look at turn 11, the Mountain Giant that Vargoth's Plot Twist summoned the previous turn died when the turn ended. So it still had Betrug's debuff, it's just that the turn already ended before all those minions were summoned so there was no trigger to kill them.
So it's not a bug, it's order of operations. I'm also pretty sure a minion's basic text is programmed to resolve before any external enchantments, so Vargoth doing his effect and then the debuff making him die is the correct order as well.
Whether or not it's a bug depends on if the minions ended up dying NEXT turn. If you look at turn 11, the Mountain Giant that Vargoth's Plot Twist summoned the previous turn died when the turn ended. So it still had Betrug's debuff, it's just that the turn already ended before all those minions were summoned so there was no trigger to kill them.
So it's not a bug, it's order of operations. I'm also pretty sure a minion's basic text is programmed to resolve before any external enchantments, so Vargoth doing his effect and then the debuff making him die is the correct order as well.
i play this deck, the minions summoned by Vargoths Plot twist die at the end of the next turn. Its working as intended
I think that's how it's supposed to be. Vargoth casts second plot twist AFTER the turn has ended. So the minions should survive a turn and die the next one.
If the minions eventually die, then the effect is working as intended with Vargoth and Bertrug. Just delayed. That deck isn't that good anyhow right now. Maybe with the new warlock quest, Plot twist decks will gain some power.
If the minions eventually die, then the effect is working as intended with Vargoth and Bertrug. Just delayed. That deck isn't that good anyhow right now. Maybe with the new warlock quest, Plot twist decks will gain some power.
Your like 2 1/2 months late to the party bro. Also, I wasnt playing Plot Twist Warlock, my opponent was. Third, how good a deck is has no relevance to the discussion about Plot Twist/Vargoth interactions!
where is that? are you talking about going Blizzards site? Or here?
Why would you report a bug in a Blizzard game on a non-Blizzard site?
cuz maybe they have direct access to Blizzard,cuz thats what websites dedicated to 1 game usually do. also, the game developers might review the logs on the website. is that enough reasons for you? or would you like more to go with your snide remarks?
I wasn't being snide. I was honestly curious why anyone would do that, because you aren't the first to try to submit a bug report through Hearthpwn.
But I'm glad you found your answer, and overall I think the thread has been very enlightening to many people.
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Basically end of turn effects get one opportunity to trigger and all do at the same time.
Great response. Wow dude thanx alot for that. Thank you to everyone as well. Im a little confused but get the gist of your explanation. Its not very logical or consistent IMO, the way the End of turn is resolved, however, if it always happens like this, then at least I know that now and can play around this interaction. Thank you once again.
Great response. Wow dude thanx alot for that. Thank you to everyone as well. Im a little confused but get the gist of your explanation. Its not very logical or consistent IMO, the way the End of turn is resolved, however, if it always happens like this, then at least I know that now and can play around this interaction. Thank you once again.
Whether or not it's a bug depends on if the minions ended up dying NEXT turn. If you look at turn 11, the Mountain Giant that Vargoth's Plot Twist summoned the previous turn died when the turn ended. So it still had Betrug's debuff, it's just that the turn already ended before all those minions were summoned so there was no trigger to kill them.
So it's not a bug, it's order of operations. I'm also pretty sure a minion's basic text is programmed to resolve before any external enchantments, so Vargoth doing his effect and then the debuff making him die is the correct order as well.
yah i see what you mena. thx alot.
i play this deck, the minions summoned by Vargoths Plot twist die at the end of the next turn. Its working as intended
They die at end of the next turn, I played it.
Its TOO good anyway =D
I think that's how it's supposed to be. Vargoth casts second plot twist AFTER the turn has ended. So the minions should survive a turn and die the next one.
If the minions eventually die, then the effect is working as intended with Vargoth and Bertrug. Just delayed. That deck isn't that good anyhow right now. Maybe with the new warlock quest, Plot twist decks will gain some power.
Your like 2 1/2 months late to the party bro. Also, I wasnt playing Plot Twist Warlock, my opponent was. Third, how good a deck is has no relevance to the discussion about Plot Twist/Vargoth interactions!
I wasn't being snide. I was honestly curious why anyone would do that, because you aren't the first to try to submit a bug report through Hearthpwn.
But I'm glad you found your answer, and overall I think the thread has been very enlightening to many people.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland