So, apparently, making an enemy discard his Pyroblast is unacceptable for Hearthstone devs but making him Pyroblast his own face is totally fine. Eh....
Let's be real, this card is too unreliable to actually see competitive play. Your opponent will Fireball his own face just as often as yours. For free. That's not good at all.
So, apparently, making an enemy discard his Pyroblast is unacceptable for Hearthstone devs but making him Pyroblast his own face is totally fine. Eh....
Let's be real, this card is too unreliable to actually see competitive play. Your opponent will Fireball his own face just as often as yours. For free. That's not good at all.
That's missing the entire point of the card. It's to disrupt combos and OTKs, not to use up fireballs or deal face damage.
I like the design, but unlike most people I think its unplayable.
Why? Do you guys remember the OG Yogg-Saron and why it was so good? Because a large portion of spells didnt require a target, they were just good when they were cast. Secrets, draw spells, summon spell, board clears, etc.
When you dont exactly know your opponents hand and just throw this guy, you could easily make one of the opponents beneficial spell make them cost zero. And this is Duskfallen Aviana level of bad.
Sure, there will be some Trolden highlights, and the card might see some tournament play, but in my opinion in ladder its hopeless.
Also missing the point. Combos - Mecha'thun in particular - are done at the end of the game when your opponent only has 2/3 cards and can burn through them all in one sweep, thus activating the combo and winning. As long as you play this card correctly it isn't possible to burn something that shouldn't be burned.
I talked about this in my post. TL:dr - People will play around the Saboteur by holding more spells in their hand. And since you can't play a second Saboteur on your turn (it costs 6 mana, Dirty Rat costs 2), if you miss your first shot, you will lose the game. That's why I prefer Mojomaster Zihi, because she's more reliable.
... the combo decks can hold on multiple spells in their hand and you might not always target the right one. In my honest opinion, pulling out minions is way, way better than pulling out spells.
I'll give some examples of already well-known combo decks, because we are familiar with their build and we can imagine the scenarios better:
Let's say, that you are facing a Mecha'thun druid or warlock. Since those decks rely on 2 spells to activate their win-condition, you can wait until the moment comes and pull out a combo piece. The warlock will either lose Bloodbloom or Cataclysm, the druid will lose Naturalize or Innervate. However, since we are sticking with this example, I can say that the combo players will try to play around this tech and will keep multiple spells in their hand, which won't hinder their game-plan anyway. Warlocks can hold onto AoEs or other removals (or a second Bloodbloom) and the druid can hold onto 0-cost spells. If Dirty Rat were in the game, you would have better chances to bait out the beefy minion than one of the correct spells themselves.
And now let's look at the probable future OTK priest decks - I can say prematurely, that those will be heavily spell based. So the chances of your Saboteur casting Mass Resurrection or Mind Blast will be as good as casting Mass Hysteria, Fourbidden words, mass dispell etc etc. And playing a Saboteur after letting the priest minions die, would be suicidal, because with the remaining 4 mana you won't have the possibility to answer a whole board (unless you have minions to back you up).
[edit] So, if you ask me, Mojomaster Zihi will be far superior in control decks (which can generate pressure against the opponent). We should try to build our decks in this direction, if combo grows on popularity.
The Mecha'thun example was there to illustrate the ways of your opponent playing around the epic. I know those archtypes will seize to exist, those were just used as an example.
I am not native English speaker, i used to think it should be said "..opponent... from HIS (not "thier") hand".
I checked vocabulary, and can't find where did i miss theory.
I believe in English it's better to say their, as this sounds more generic. It combines the possessive pronouns "his" and "her". Here's a link to the pronoun "they", which, although is not a possessive pronoun, can explain this logic.
The pronoun they can also be used to refer to unspecified people in some often vaguely defined group, as in In Japan they drive on the left. It often refers to the authorities, or to some perceived powerful group, sometimes sinister: They don't want the public to know the whole truth.
It can also be used as a gender neutral third person singular pronoun. This idiomatic use avoids formalising the vagueness or unknown fact by not using the formal phrase, "he or she." For example, formally "he or she drove over the body and disappeared," informally "they (singular) drove over the body and disappeared."
I completely understand your confusion - often times I make this mistake as well. In Bulgarian we would also say "his", because opponent (противник, опонент) is in masculine and we don't mind using non-generic pronouns.
... the combo decks can hold on multiple spells in their hand and you might not always target the right one. In my honest opinion, pulling out minions is way, way better than pulling out spells.
I'll give some examples of already well-known combo decks, because we are familiar with their build and we can imagine the scenarios better:
Let's say, that you are facing a Mecha'thun druid or warlock. Since those decks rely on 2 spells to activate their win-condition, you can wait until the moment comes and pull out a combo piece. The warlock will either lose Bloodbloom or Cataclysm, the druid will lose Naturalize or Innervate. However, since we are sticking with this example, I can say that the combo players will try to play around this tech and will keep multiple spells in their hand, which won't hinder their game-plan anyway. Warlocks can hold onto AoEs or other removals (or a second Bloodbloom) and the druid can hold onto 0-cost spells. If Dirty Rat were in the game, you would have better chances to bait out the beefy minion than one of the correct spells themselves.
And now let's look at the probable future OTK priest decks - I can say prematurely, that those will be heavily spell based. So the chances of your Saboteur casting Mass Resurrection or Mind Blast will be as good as casting Mass Hysteria, Fourbidden words, mass dispell etc etc. And playing a Saboteur after letting the priest minions die, would be suicidal, because with the remaining 4 mana you won't have the possibility to answer a whole board (unless you have minions to back you up).
[edit] So, if you ask me, Mojomaster Zihi will be far superior in control decks (which can generate pressure against the opponent). We should try to build our decks in this direction, if combo grows on popularity.
The Mecha'thun example was there to illustrate the ways of your opponent playing around the epic. I know those archtypes will seize to exist, those were just used as an example.
I kinda want to take my words back regarding what I said, but only to a certain extent.
Back when I was describing the flaws of this tech, I was mainly thinking of Res Priest-type of combo decks, i.e. lists, that run a huge amount of spells and where "discarding" one wouldn't mean a loss for them. I also talked about Mecha'thun decks like warlock and druid, which could play around the Saboteur by holding cheap or multiple spells, so that the minion would target the wrong one.
I don't regret saying those things, but now that we can see the whole RoS set, I think I have to correct myself in some points. Let's start with the Mecha'thun decks again. Since cheap minion destruction spells like Naturalize are going away and not all classes have access to excess mana, people have to find other ways of killing the big boy. A little while ago I remembered, that Mecha'thun Warrior could pull off their combo post-rotation by using The Boomship, Malygos, 2x Inner Rages and Whirlwind. A fellow user (NightCrawl3r) informed me about the new warlock one (featuring Plot Twist, Dollmaster Dorian, Spirit Bomb and Shriek). Since those classes don't have 0-cost spells, which they can safely cast before pulling off the combo, they have to make sure that their hand consists only of the aforementioned combo pieces. And if this is so, then playing the Unseen Saboteur would mean an insta win for you. So if for some reason Mecha'thun decks become popular, you can instantly shut them down by using this card.
The other good usage of the tech is against control decks. You just have to make sure it pulls a big AoE before you play your biggest threats. Because imagine how the warlock has Twisting Nether in their hand and you don't want to go wide and risk losing your precious resources. If you play the Saboteur, you will make a 1:1 resource trade, but just like in chess, if you manage to take the Queen with a smaller figur, then this trade is going to be worth it.
Well we don't know yet a deck like that but if there is a Madame Lazul Priest, This card will see play in the deck actually. With maybe Chameleos ?
I mean you can see what they have and you can try to disrupt them. That's a thing I guess ?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I think this is one of the best and overdue epics Hearthstone has ever printed.
4. Skulking Geist
That is why this card is good.
I talked about this in my post. TL:dr - People will play around the Saboteur by holding more spells in their hand. And since you can't play a second Saboteur on your turn (it costs 6 mana, Dirty Rat costs 2), if you miss your first shot, you will lose the game. That's why I prefer Mojomaster Zihi, because she's more reliable.
I am not native English speaker, i used to think it should be said "..opponent... from HIS (not "thier") hand".
I checked vocabulary, and can't find where did i miss theory.
I believe in English it's better to say their, as this sounds more generic. It combines the possessive pronouns "his" and "her". Here's a link to the pronoun "they", which, although is not a possessive pronoun, can explain this logic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They
I completely understand your confusion - often times I make this mistake as well. In Bulgarian we would also say "his", because opponent (противник, опонент) is in masculine and we don't mind using non-generic pronouns.
I kinda want to take my words back regarding what I said, but only to a certain extent.
Back when I was describing the flaws of this tech, I was mainly thinking of Res Priest-type of combo decks, i.e. lists, that run a huge amount of spells and where "discarding" one wouldn't mean a loss for them. I also talked about Mecha'thun decks like warlock and druid, which could play around the Saboteur by holding cheap or multiple spells, so that the minion would target the wrong one.
I don't regret saying those things, but now that we can see the whole RoS set, I think I have to correct myself in some points. Let's start with the Mecha'thun decks again. Since cheap minion destruction spells like Naturalize are going away and not all classes have access to excess mana, people have to find other ways of killing the big boy. A little while ago I remembered, that Mecha'thun Warrior could pull off their combo post-rotation by using The Boomship, Malygos, 2x Inner Rages and Whirlwind. A fellow user (NightCrawl3r) informed me about the new warlock one (featuring Plot Twist, Dollmaster Dorian, Spirit Bomb and Shriek). Since those classes don't have 0-cost spells, which they can safely cast before pulling off the combo, they have to make sure that their hand consists only of the aforementioned combo pieces. And if this is so, then playing the Unseen Saboteur would mean an insta win for you. So if for some reason Mecha'thun decks become popular, you can instantly shut them down by using this card.
The other good usage of the tech is against control decks. You just have to make sure it pulls a big AoE before you play your biggest threats. Because imagine how the warlock has Twisting Nether in their hand and you don't want to go wide and risk losing your precious resources. If you play the Saboteur, you will make a 1:1 resource trade, but just like in chess, if you manage to take the Queen with a smaller figur, then this trade is going to be worth it.
Lorewalker Cho
Myra's Unstable Element
Unseen Saboteur
That would be so funny. Its 13 mana combo tho.
Cho, Prep, Myras, Saboteur
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
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Prep > Cho -> Myra
else Saboteur casts prep
Ooh you're right. Now I wish I had Cho so I could try this out.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Opened one these today. Who has actually used this garbage?
Fun > Meta
I will do it either today or tomorrow to pull off Schrute's suggested combo.
I was going to do it, but Hysteria was faster than me:
https://youtu.be/LKgfibH-dlg?t=61
Btw the following is a bug, but it shows the Time Warp interaction.
https://youtu.be/msHYVfnbpc8?t=364
Well we don't know yet a deck like that but if there is a Madame Lazul Priest, This card will see play in the deck actually. With maybe Chameleos ?
I mean you can see what they have and you can try to disrupt them. That's a thing I guess ?
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I was thinking of that beltrug charge combo. It's just as disgusting as I imagined. Shudderwock does copy horror battlecries though.
Fun > Meta