So, they are pushing OTK decks and then they are making all those tech cards against OTK decks. I wonder where that will lead to... Maybe control will be king in the new meta?
I think it will simply make control more viable again. These disruption cards are excellent, but some combos simply avoid the effects if you can't play distruption in time. Hecklebot can't summon a Mecha'thun when it's in your hand. Unseen Saboteur might pull the wrong spell if the combo isn't your entire final hand. you still have to draw the cards in time, too.
This is what makes control design healthier than combo (when done correctly): combo essentially does everything it can to draw and stall until it combos, largely ignoring or otherwise stymieing attacks on face, while control makes an effort to out value (with disruption being a measured gamble aside from cards like Mojomaster Zihi). Combo feels bad to play against because they just need to draw into their combo and last long enough, while control must use their resources in a largely reactive way. Aggro vs control is cat and mouse; combo vs control is "How unlucky is my combo draw?"; and aggro vs combo is a race to beat face before stabilization.
I just realized this is getting long and preachy, but suffice it to say that these disruption cards only help control exist again vs combo/otk, which is a difficult archetype to design in a healthy way.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
This? This - and hecklebot - are solidly designed for a healthy meta. This one's understatted enough that it's a proper tech card; heckle is autoinclude in control. High variance card in most situations; only really spell-based combos that don't rely on endless spells to draw, that it hits - and naming those is probably tricksy. Will do great work against something like Holy Wrath pally, where it's telegraphed so obviously, though still a RNG play.
It'a a safety valve for the metagame, and what HS needs (speaking as a combo player).
... the combo decks can hold on multiple spells in their hand and you might not always target the right one. In my honest opinion, pulling out minions is way, way better than pulling out spells.
I'll give some examples of already well-known combo decks, because we are familiar with their build and we can imagine the scenarios better:
Let's say, that you are facing a Mecha'thun druid or warlock. Since those decks rely on 2 spells to activate their win-condition, you can wait until the moment comes and pull out a combo piece. The warlock will either lose Bloodbloom or Cataclysm, the druid will lose Naturalize or Innervate. However, since we are sticking with this example, I can say that the combo players will try to play around this tech and will keep multiple spells in their hand, which won't hinder their game-plan anyway. Warlocks can hold onto AoEs or other removals (or a second Bloodbloom) and the druid can hold onto 0-cost spells. If Dirty Rat were in the game, you would have better chances to bait out the beefy minion than one of the correct spells themselves.
And now let's look at the probable future OTK priest decks - I can say prematurely, that those will be heavily spell based. So the chances of your Saboteur casting Mass Resurrection or Mind Blast will be as good as casting Mass Hysteria, Fourbidden words, mass dispell etc etc. And playing a Saboteur after letting the priest minions die, would be suicidal, because with the remaining 4 mana you won't have the possibility to answer a whole board (unless you have minions to back you up).
[edit] So, if you ask me, Mojomaster Zihi will be far superior in control decks (which can generate pressure against the opponent). We should try to build our decks in this direction, if combo grows on popularity.
The Mecha'thun example was there to illustrate the ways of your opponent playing around the epic. I know those archtypes will seize to exist, those were just used as an example.
Something tells me this is going to be a card that going to lead to lot of trolden moment videos. Besides that , card is cool. Still, there are some cards you don't want to cast free for your opponent, ramp spells, card draw, ext. Still, nice to see spell disruption cards coming in the meta.
Hard to evaluate this card, we will have to wait and see if there are a lot of key spells that we will want to hit with this then I can see it being a popular tech. I can see a Burn Mage deck in the future with some of the new cards so this could be useful. Although the target could still go face...you'll have to make sure you have some good healing on hand if that happens.
Against a Priest this could be disastrous if you hit spells like Cloning Gallery, Mass resurrection (if they had minions die) Mass Hysteria could be bad if you only have minions on your board.
Hitting Secrets is bad.
Only key card that I can see right now that you want to hit is transform spells so your opponent can't use them on your deathrattles or your big minions with powerful effects, most importantly Hakkar.
Depending on how many spells are used that can "accidentally" be used on a wrong target this is interesting. Probably best used on priest where a shadow word pain could be forced on their own minions or something like that.
Basically, this is a super risky tech card. Once deck lists are figured out, then then card becomes auto include or are used if you are weak to certain match ups and its spell based.
Playing this minion and them getting a free Cloning Gallery on YOUR turn is completely back breaking for you. They will then have the opportunity to trade as necessary and you will be giving your opponent alot of tempo.
If this card casts a spell without a target, then this is a huge value swing for you. It's like you discarded a card without a real discard effect.
This is probably closest to a 'discard' spell for your opponent that Hearthstone will ever have.
I like the design, but unlike most people I think its unplayable.
Why? Do you guys remember the OG Yogg-Saron and why it was so good? Because a large portion of spells didnt require a target, they were just good when they were cast. Secrets, draw spells, summon spell, board clears, etc.
When you dont exactly know your opponents hand and just throw this guy, you could easily make one of the opponents beneficial spell make them cost zero. And this is Duskfallen Aviana level of bad.
Sure, there will be some Trolden highlights, and the card might see some tournament play, but in my opinion in ladder its hopeless.
So, apparently, making an enemy discard his Pyroblast is unacceptable for Hearthstone devs but making him Pyroblast his own face is totally fine. Eh....
Let's be real, this card is too unreliable to actually see competitive play. Your opponent will Fireball his own face just as often as yours. For free. That's not good at all.
So, apparently, making an enemy discard his Pyroblast is unacceptable for Hearthstone devs but making him Pyroblast his own face is totally fine. Eh....
Let's be real, this card is too unreliable to actually see competitive play. Your opponent will Fireball his own face just as often as yours. For free. That's not good at all.
That's missing the entire point of the card. It's to disrupt combos and OTKs, not to use up fireballs or deal face damage.
I like the design, but unlike most people I think its unplayable.
Why? Do you guys remember the OG Yogg-Saron and why it was so good? Because a large portion of spells didnt require a target, they were just good when they were cast. Secrets, draw spells, summon spell, board clears, etc.
When you dont exactly know your opponents hand and just throw this guy, you could easily make one of the opponents beneficial spell make them cost zero. And this is Duskfallen Aviana level of bad.
Sure, there will be some Trolden highlights, and the card might see some tournament play, but in my opinion in ladder its hopeless.
Also missing the point. Combos - Mecha'thun in particular - are done at the end of the game when your opponent only has 2/3 cards and can burn through them all in one sweep, thus activating the combo and winning. As long as you play this card correctly it isn't possible to burn something that shouldn't be burned.
So, apparently, making an enemy discard his Pyroblast is unacceptable for Hearthstone devs but making him Pyroblast his own face is totally fine. Eh....
Let's be real, this card is too unreliable to actually see competitive play. Your opponent will Fireball his own face just as often as yours. For free. That's not good at all.
That's missing the entire point of the card. It's to disrupt combos and OTKs, not to use up fireballs or deal face damage.
I like the design, but unlike most people I think its unplayable.
Why? Do you guys remember the OG Yogg-Saron and why it was so good? Because a large portion of spells didnt require a target, they were just good when they were cast. Secrets, draw spells, summon spell, board clears, etc.
When you dont exactly know your opponents hand and just throw this guy, you could easily make one of the opponents beneficial spell make them cost zero. And this is Duskfallen Aviana level of bad.
Sure, there will be some Trolden highlights, and the card might see some tournament play, but in my opinion in ladder its hopeless.
Also missing the point. Combos - Mecha'thun in particular - are done at the end of the game when your opponent only has 2/3 cards and can burn through them all in one sweep, thus activating the combo and winning. As long as you play this card correctly it isn't possible to burn something that shouldn't be burned.
Im not missing the point, I agree that its good against some combo decks. The problem is that its crap against everything else. If 70%+ of your ladder matches are against such combo decks, then you should probably run it, otherwise it will most likely lower your winrate.
I think it will simply make control more viable again. These disruption cards are excellent, but some combos simply avoid the effects if you can't play distruption in time. Hecklebot can't summon a Mecha'thun when it's in your hand. Unseen Saboteur might pull the wrong spell if the combo isn't your entire final hand. you still have to draw the cards in time, too.
This is what makes control design healthier than combo (when done correctly): combo essentially does everything it can to draw and stall until it combos, largely ignoring or otherwise stymieing attacks on face, while control makes an effort to out value (with disruption being a measured gamble aside from cards like Mojomaster Zihi). Combo feels bad to play against because they just need to draw into their combo and last long enough, while control must use their resources in a largely reactive way. Aggro vs control is cat and mouse; combo vs control is "How unlucky is my combo draw?"; and aggro vs combo is a race to beat face before stabilization.
I just realized this is getting long and preachy, but suffice it to say that these disruption cards only help control exist again vs combo/otk, which is a difficult archetype to design in a healthy way.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
This? This - and hecklebot - are solidly designed for a healthy meta. This one's understatted enough that it's a proper tech card; heckle is autoinclude in control. High variance card in most situations; only really spell-based combos that don't rely on endless spells to draw, that it hits - and naming those is probably tricksy. Will do great work against something like Holy Wrath pally, where it's telegraphed so obviously, though still a RNG play.
It'a a safety valve for the metagame, and what HS needs (speaking as a combo player).
Also, listen all'y'all...
I see a lot of people getting hyped over this, so I would repeat my words again:
I'll give some examples of already well-known combo decks, because we are familiar with their build and we can imagine the scenarios better:
Let's say, that you are facing a Mecha'thun druid or warlock. Since those decks rely on 2 spells to activate their win-condition, you can wait until the moment comes and pull out a combo piece. The warlock will either lose Bloodbloom or Cataclysm, the druid will lose Naturalize or Innervate. However, since we are sticking with this example, I can say that the combo players will try to play around this tech and will keep multiple spells in their hand, which won't hinder their game-plan anyway. Warlocks can hold onto AoEs or other removals (or a second Bloodbloom) and the druid can hold onto 0-cost spells. If Dirty Rat were in the game, you would have better chances to bait out the beefy minion than one of the correct spells themselves.
And now let's look at the probable future OTK priest decks - I can say prematurely, that those will be heavily spell based. So the chances of your Saboteur casting Mass Resurrection or Mind Blast will be as good as casting Mass Hysteria, Fourbidden words, mass dispell etc etc. And playing a Saboteur after letting the priest minions die, would be suicidal, because with the remaining 4 mana you won't have the possibility to answer a whole board (unless you have minions to back you up).
[edit] So, if you ask me, Mojomaster Zihi will be far superior in control decks (which can generate pressure against the opponent). We should try to build our decks in this direction, if combo grows on popularity.
The Mecha'thun example was there to illustrate the ways of your opponent playing around the epic. I know those archtypes will seize to exist, those were just used as an example.
Something tells me this is going to be a card that going to lead to lot of trolden moment videos. Besides that , card is cool. Still, there are some cards you don't want to cast free for your opponent, ramp spells, card draw, ext. Still, nice to see spell disruption cards coming in the meta.
I’m looking forward to an opponent playing this on curve and getting itself Mind Controlled.
Forcing out cataclysm with this will feel amazing.
This would possible in wild though, still I admit it will be really hilarious.
Hard to evaluate this card, we will have to wait and see if there are a lot of key spells that we will want to hit with this then I can see it being a popular tech. I can see a Burn Mage deck in the future with some of the new cards so this could be useful. Although the target could still go face...you'll have to make sure you have some good healing on hand if that happens.
Against a Priest this could be disastrous if you hit spells like Cloning Gallery, Mass resurrection (if they had minions die) Mass Hysteria could be bad if you only have minions on your board.
Hitting Secrets is bad.
Only key card that I can see right now that you want to hit is transform spells so your opponent can't use them on your deathrattles or your big minions with powerful effects, most importantly Hakkar.
Amazing card!
If you land on a spellstone on turn 6, I'm not sure....
Depending on how many spells are used that can "accidentally" be used on a wrong target this is interesting. Probably best used on priest where a shadow word pain could be forced on their own minions or something like that.
then Skullking Geist xd
Basically, this is a super risky tech card. Once deck lists are figured out, then then card becomes auto include or are used if you are weak to certain match ups and its spell based.
Playing this minion and them getting a free Cloning Gallery on YOUR turn is completely back breaking for you. They will then have the opportunity to trade as necessary and you will be giving your opponent alot of tempo.
If this card casts a spell without a target, then this is a huge value swing for you. It's like you discarded a card without a real discard effect.
This is probably closest to a 'discard' spell for your opponent that Hearthstone will ever have.
I like the design, but unlike most people I think its unplayable.
Why? Do you guys remember the OG Yogg-Saron and why it was so good? Because a large portion of spells didnt require a target, they were just good when they were cast. Secrets, draw spells, summon spell, board clears, etc.
When you dont exactly know your opponents hand and just throw this guy, you could easily make one of the opponents beneficial spell make them cost zero. And this is Duskfallen Aviana level of bad.
Sure, there will be some Trolden highlights, and the card might see some tournament play, but in my opinion in ladder its hopeless.
So, apparently, making an enemy discard his Pyroblast is unacceptable for Hearthstone devs but making him Pyroblast his own face is totally fine. Eh....
Let's be real, this card is too unreliable to actually see competitive play. Your opponent will Fireball his own face just as often as yours. For free. That's not good at all.
That's missing the entire point of the card. It's to disrupt combos and OTKs, not to use up fireballs or deal face damage.
Also missing the point. Combos - Mecha'thun in particular - are done at the end of the game when your opponent only has 2/3 cards and can burn through them all in one sweep, thus activating the combo and winning. As long as you play this card correctly it isn't possible to burn something that shouldn't be burned.
Seems like a really good disruption card. Good tech against a vast majority of Combo decks.
Im not missing the point, I agree that its good against some combo decks. The problem is that its crap against everything else. If 70%+ of your ladder matches are against such combo decks, then you should probably run it, otherwise it will most likely lower your winrate.
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