I really don't get the hype, that people already call for a nerf.
Not saying the card is weak, but Rogue is still by far the weakest class when it comes to survival, outside of shenanigans with Spectral Cutlass, and Togwaggle will likely not be played before Turn 7, if you even draw it. And even with Preparation, you have to hope for the treasure to work out as intended, whether you are aiming for Zarog's Crown or Wondrous Wand. There is a fair amount of randomness involved either way.
People talk as if you only need this card to win games automatically...
You can *choose* the treasure.
Yeah... so?
You chose your treasure, and what comes out of the treasure is random. You discover a legendary, or you draw one card from your deck multiple times, or your draw three cards that will get reduced to 0 or you pick the kobold and get random legendaries.
Either option may not do what you hope it does. It's far from "I win".
Yea I just edited more stuff in, I misread.
Nobody is talking about winning the game yet (as was the case with shudderwock), but the crazy tempo this provides is insane. Think about it as a 9 mana card. It can be an 11/11 rafaan for 9. It can be 5/5 draw 3 and play them. 9 mana 5/5 discover a legendary summon 2. Or a 9 mana5/5 draw like 6?
All of these woulf be insane 5* cards and would see play. You can *choose* all these options from a matchup.
6-mana "summon a 5/5 and two random legendaries" isn't good enough for you?
Change it to the actual card text: 6 mana, requiring a lackey on board, granting you a 3 mana spell that requires a Preparation in your hand, and the legendary being a discover in a class with many legendaries you don't want to discover. And again, I'm not saying it's not good enough, but I disagree with people thinking this will break the game.
Nobody is talking about winning the game yet (as was the case with shudderwock), but the crazy tempo this provides is insane. Think about it as a 9 mana card. It can be an 11/11 rafaan for 9. It can be 5/5 draw 3 and play them. 9 mana 5/5 discover a legendary summon 2. Or a 9 mana5/5 draw like 6?
All of these woulf be insane 5* cards and would see play. You can *choose* all these options from a matchup.
I'm not even seeing it as a 9 mana card. I will even consider it so that the treasure is likely activated with Preparation. But even as a 7 mana card (I think the chance for a Lackey surviving is very slim), while indeed powerful, it still is a Rogue card. A class that only survives on stuff like Vanish, Backstab and Fan of Knives; a class that struggles to stay alive against most decks that put consistent pressure on the board, and has few means to stay strong in the lategame. Also a class I wouldn't want to discover a legendary minion from, except for Tess maybe.
Togwaggle can make for some very impactful turns, I'm not denying that. But I can't see him as the auto-include legendary that will win you the games with the weaknesses that Rogue has.
I'm not criticizing the card for being weak. I'm just saying, pulling this off is harder than it sounds, and the results are not as consistent and predictable as they may seem. Maybe I'm all wrong and this is the new The Caverns Below, but so what... I'm just saying what I think, and I think the reactions here are mostly unjustified.
6-mana "summon a 5/5 and two random legendaries" isn't good enough for you?
Change it to the actual card text: 6 mana, requiring a lackey on board, granting you a 3 mana spell that requires a Preparation in your hand, and the legendary being a discover in a class with many legendaries you don't want to discover. And again, I'm not saying it's not good enough, but I disagree with people thinking this will break the game.
Lackey is a 1-mana minion, or 0-mana with Shadowstep. By turn 6, it's pretty easy to have drawn a copy of Prep. Togwaggle + Coin + 2 legendaries on turn 6 or 7 will happen more often than you think.
6-mana "summon a 5/5 and two random legendaries" isn't good enough for you?
Change it to the actual card text: 6 mana, requiring a lackey on board, granting you a 3 mana spell that requires a Preparation in your hand, and the legendary being a discover in a class with many legendaries you don't want to discover. And again, I'm not saying it's not good enough, but I disagree with people thinking this will break the game.
Lackey is a 1-mana minion, or 0-mana with Shadowstep. By turn 6, it's pretty easy to have drawn a copy of Prep. Togwaggle + Coin + 2 legendaries on turn 6 or 7 will happen more often than you think.
Agreed. Rogue has many ways to draw cards and what people are calling the high roll turn, to me is not that hard to pull off. I need to look at the numbers, but I believe it's going to happen alot by turn 6 or 7. That's alot of card draw by turn 6.
Turn 6 with a Coin and Prep is all you need to turn an empty board into a board that MUST be dealt with immediately. Getting 2 Legendary minions and a 5/5 to boot is very strong.
Classes that can't deal with instant large boards like the above will lose most matches.
Blizzard always has to release one card that is super OP with each expansion to get people really worked up and interested in it.
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Developed Hearthstone player, have played and beaten highly skilled opponents on numerous occasions. Not that ambitious on ladder. Only play off of win streaks. Love theory more than meta.
6-mana "summon a 5/5 and two random legendaries" isn't good enough for you?
Change it to the actual card text: 6 mana, requiring a lackey on board, granting you a 3 mana spell that requires a Preparation in your hand, and the legendary being a discover in a class with many legendaries you don't want to discover. And again, I'm not saying it's not good enough, but I disagree with people thinking this will break the game.
Nobody is talking about winning the game yet (as was the case with shudderwock), but the crazy tempo this provides is insane. Think about it as a 9 mana card. It can be an 11/11 rafaan for 9. It can be 5/5 draw 3 and play them. 9 mana 5/5 discover a legendary summon 2. Or a 9 mana5/5 draw like 6?
All of these woulf be insane 5* cards and would see play. You can *choose* all these options from a matchup.
I'm not even seeing it as a 9 mana card. I will even consider it so that the treasure is likely activated with Preparation. But even as a 7 mana card (I think the chance for a Lackey surviving is very slim), while indeed powerful, it still is a Rogue card. A class that only survives on stuff like Vanish, Backstab and Fan of Knives; a class that struggles to stay alive against most decks that put consistent pressure on the board, and has few means to stay strong in the lategame. Also a class I wouldn't want to discover a legendary minion from, except for Tess maybe.
Togwaggle can make for some very impactful turns, I'm not denying that. But I can't see him as the auto-include legendary that will win you the games with the weaknesses that Rogue has.
I'm not criticizing the card for being weak. I'm just saying, pulling this off is harder than it sounds, and the results are not as consistent and predictable as they may seem. Maybe I'm all wrong and this is the new The Caverns Below, but so what... I'm just saying what I think, and I think the reactions here are mostly unjustified.
Excuse me sir, you seem to be getting in front of the hype train, I'm gonna have to ask you to vacate the premises.
An amazing re-imagining of one of my favorite meme cards. Just praying that a control rouge will finally see the spotlight, and that this won't result is some dumb combo.
I had to double check to take a look at this card because I thought you get one randomly +1 for every lackey you have, but now that I see that you can choose Wand this just opens up many doors for combo potential. The aforementioned Myra's+Togg scheme on Malygos seems the way to go. Don't think it's busted as people think because it requires a lot of set up before hand.
Step 1. Play a lackey and Togg. Cost: 7 mana.
Step 2. Have or draw Myra's, Malygos, and Togg's scheme. Play Myra's (then what?) Cost: 5 mana.
Step 3. Play Malygos and Togwaggle's scheme. Cost: 10 mana.
Step 4: Play Wonderous Wand and get three copies of Malygos all 0 cost. The rest is self explanatory.
I dunno just doesn't seem good enough as Rogue doesn't have good healing, Specrtal Cutlass remains but people will most likely be teching Ooze if this deck and the new Hunter Legendary sees a lot of play so doesn't sound reliable.. although having two copies of scheme might not be so bad since you can use one copy to shuffle in a lot of Zilliax.
The ceiling on this card is almost out of sight, meaning what can't this card do?
What is the floor, meaning what is the worse case scenario with no OTK or crazy combos in mind?
Turn 7: Play a lackey, then play this. You get to choose a 3 mana card for whatever situation you are in.
Turn 8: Play the 3 mana card and get extreme value.
a. Golden Kobold is used when you have a full hand of nonsense or cards that wont help you right now or desperate for a 6/6 Taunt.
b. Tolin's Goblet is used when your hand is near empty to generate extreme value with multiple copies of a randomly drawn card.
c. Wondrous Wand is used if you have an empty hand but you need to dig for a specific answer or card in your deck. Oh and all the cards you draw are free to play.
d. Zarog's Crown is used when the opponent has no board on the other side or a non threatening board and you want to apply pressure.
So the lowest common result with nothing else in mind is still rather good. Marin was too slow and was a 'win more' card. ideally, Marin was played and then you killed the treasure the same turn. That means you already had an advantage.
This card gives you whatever result you want instantly on the same turn, with a Lackey as the only setup card.
This card also enables other style decks to get more consistency. Wondrous Wand in particular will potentially draw you into your OTK or combo pieces and you could even win on the spot.
Tolin's Goblet allows for infinite value. Play Myra to empty your deck. Play this card and play the scheme on him. You now have a bunch of this card in your deck. Play Goblet to draw Toggwaggle and a hand full of them. Get Wondrous Wand to draw 3 more for free.
But....this is only possible if Aggro decks are not as strong to keep Rogue in check.
This card is strong no matter the meta game, but it will not be played if everyone is running around going face.
If aggro gets so good that control starts to struggle against it, the time to abandon the game might come.... If not this one might take over with a type S deck again time to take a break LoL .... Towaggle is on Rexxar level and we hoped to get rid of such cards. Sigh ...
If aggro gets so good that control starts to struggle against it, the time to abandon the game might come.... If not this one might take over with a type S deck again time to take a break LoL .... Towaggle is on Rexxar level and we hoped to get rid of such cards. Sigh ...
Heistmaster may be comparable with Kazzakus or Marin, but definitely not with the infinite value machine Rexxar...
Somebody should do research if the same „I make strange comparisons to prove that this card will dominate the game“ people are the ones who complain if expansions at the end of a year are not that impactful. :D
not to get super overhyped, but this card seems really, REALLY good
the condition isn't very hard to work with consider rogue has already been revealed to a good lackey generator, and this card is pretty much a mid-game hit so it doesn't fall under "too slow for rogue to combo" or "rogue dies before it can be played"
and the battlecry looks NUTS - adding value to your hand has always been good, especially in rogue - look at Swashburglar, Blink Fox, and Tomb Pillager, and on top of that all of the treasures are pretty much amazing
outside of combos, you have kobold and the crown, which are very swingy and potentially game winning cards
WITH combos, you have cards like goblet that make miracle nuts, and cards like wand that could justify really weird packages like big rogue
again, i'm on the hype train so take that all with a grain of salt, but even if new togg gets slammed into a specific archetype like miracle or shuffle, he's likely going to be an all-star card with it
Everybody's talking about malygos, what about the card itself? Im immediately going to try a Toggwaggle deck which runs the Chef Nomi with Myra's Unstable Element Then you hopefully get Togwaggle's Schemeand Heistbaron Togwaggle, and get infinite treasure. If you have a prep, you can instantly Lackey, togwaggle, togwaggle scheme, prep, draw 3 0 cost togwaggles, all for 8 mana, the turn after you chef nomi.
Yea I just edited more stuff in, I misread.
Nobody is talking about winning the game yet (as was the case with shudderwock), but the crazy tempo this provides is insane. Think about it as a 9 mana card. It can be an 11/11 rafaan for 9. It can be 5/5 draw 3 and play them. 9 mana 5/5 discover a legendary summon 2. Or a 9 mana5/5 draw like 6?
All of these woulf be insane 5* cards and would see play. You can *choose* all these options from a matchup.
Occasionally gives helpful advice.
Change it to the actual card text: 6 mana, requiring a lackey on board, granting you a 3 mana spell that requires a Preparation in your hand, and the legendary being a discover in a class with many legendaries you don't want to discover. And again, I'm not saying it's not good enough, but I disagree with people thinking this will break the game.
I'm not even seeing it as a 9 mana card. I will even consider it so that the treasure is likely activated with Preparation. But even as a 7 mana card (I think the chance for a Lackey surviving is very slim), while indeed powerful, it still is a Rogue card. A class that only survives on stuff like Vanish, Backstab and Fan of Knives; a class that struggles to stay alive against most decks that put consistent pressure on the board, and has few means to stay strong in the lategame. Also a class I wouldn't want to discover a legendary minion from, except for Tess maybe.
Togwaggle can make for some very impactful turns, I'm not denying that. But I can't see him as the auto-include legendary that will win you the games with the weaknesses that Rogue has.
I'm not criticizing the card for being weak. I'm just saying, pulling this off is harder than it sounds, and the results are not as consistent and predictable as they may seem. Maybe I'm all wrong and this is the new The Caverns Below, but so what... I'm just saying what I think, and I think the reactions here are mostly unjustified.
It would be strong without discover.
This is broken
More Cancer to this game
They dont learn....
Lackey is a 1-mana minion, or 0-mana with Shadowstep. By turn 6, it's pretty easy to have drawn a copy of Prep. Togwaggle + Coin + 2 legendaries on turn 6 or 7 will happen more often than you think.
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Agreed. Rogue has many ways to draw cards and what people are calling the high roll turn, to me is not that hard to pull off. I need to look at the numbers, but I believe it's going to happen alot by turn 6 or 7. That's alot of card draw by turn 6.
Turn 6 with a Coin and Prep is all you need to turn an empty board into a board that MUST be dealt with immediately. Getting 2 Legendary minions and a 5/5 to boot is very strong.
Classes that can't deal with instant large boards like the above will lose most matches.
Blizzard always has to release one card that is super OP with each expansion to get people really worked up and interested in it.
Developed Hearthstone player, have played and beaten highly skilled opponents on numerous occasions. Not that ambitious on ladder. Only play off of win streaks. Love theory more than meta.
Seems fun! I can see an OTK combo with this card and with Star Aligner. Looking forward to it.
This I'm so gonna craft golden.
Excuse me sir, you seem to be getting in front of the hype train, I'm gonna have to ask you to vacate the premises.
Craft in gold
Wait for nerf
Get full refund and craft a non nerfed cards.
An amazing re-imagining of one of my favorite meme cards. Just praying that a control rouge will finally see the spotlight, and that this won't result is some dumb combo.
I had to double check to take a look at this card because I thought you get one randomly +1 for every lackey you have, but now that I see that you can choose Wand this just opens up many doors for combo potential. The aforementioned Myra's+Togg scheme on Malygos seems the way to go. Don't think it's busted as people think because it requires a lot of set up before hand.
Step 1. Play a lackey and Togg. Cost: 7 mana.
Step 2. Have or draw Myra's, Malygos, and Togg's scheme. Play Myra's (then what?) Cost: 5 mana.
Step 3. Play Malygos and Togwaggle's scheme. Cost: 10 mana.
Step 4: Play Wonderous Wand and get three copies of Malygos all 0 cost. The rest is self explanatory.
I dunno just doesn't seem good enough as Rogue doesn't have good healing, Specrtal Cutlass remains but people will most likely be teching Ooze if this deck and the new Hunter Legendary sees a lot of play so doesn't sound reliable.. although having two copies of scheme might not be so bad since you can use one copy to shuffle in a lot of Zilliax.
The ceiling on this card is almost out of sight, meaning what can't this card do?
What is the floor, meaning what is the worse case scenario with no OTK or crazy combos in mind?
Turn 7: Play a lackey, then play this. You get to choose a 3 mana card for whatever situation you are in.
Turn 8: Play the 3 mana card and get extreme value.
a. Golden Kobold is used when you have a full hand of nonsense or cards that wont help you right now or desperate for a 6/6 Taunt.
b. Tolin's Goblet is used when your hand is near empty to generate extreme value with multiple copies of a randomly drawn card.
c. Wondrous Wand is used if you have an empty hand but you need to dig for a specific answer or card in your deck. Oh and all the cards you draw are free to play.
d. Zarog's Crown is used when the opponent has no board on the other side or a non threatening board and you want to apply pressure.
So the lowest common result with nothing else in mind is still rather good. Marin was too slow and was a 'win more' card. ideally, Marin was played and then you killed the treasure the same turn. That means you already had an advantage.
This card gives you whatever result you want instantly on the same turn, with a Lackey as the only setup card.
This card also enables other style decks to get more consistency. Wondrous Wand in particular will potentially draw you into your OTK or combo pieces and you could even win on the spot.
Tolin's Goblet allows for infinite value. Play Myra to empty your deck. Play this card and play the scheme on him. You now have a bunch of this card in your deck. Play Goblet to draw Toggwaggle and a hand full of them. Get Wondrous Wand to draw 3 more for free.
But....this is only possible if Aggro decks are not as strong to keep Rogue in check.
This card is strong no matter the meta game, but it will not be played if everyone is running around going face.
If aggro gets so good that control starts to struggle against it, the time to abandon the game might come.... If not this one might take over with a type S deck again time to take a break LoL .... Towaggle is on Rexxar level and we hoped to get rid of such cards. Sigh ...
Heistmaster may be comparable with Kazzakus or Marin, but definitely not with the infinite value machine Rexxar...
Somebody should do research if the same „I make strange comparisons to prove that this card will dominate the game“ people are the ones who complain if expansions at the end of a year are not that impactful. :D
not to get super overhyped, but this card seems really, REALLY good
the condition isn't very hard to work with consider rogue has already been revealed to a good lackey generator, and this card is pretty much a mid-game hit so it doesn't fall under "too slow for rogue to combo" or "rogue dies before it can be played"
and the battlecry looks NUTS - adding value to your hand has always been good, especially in rogue - look at Swashburglar, Blink Fox, and Tomb Pillager, and on top of that all of the treasures are pretty much amazing
outside of combos, you have kobold and the crown, which are very swingy and potentially game winning cards
WITH combos, you have cards like goblet that make miracle nuts, and cards like wand that could justify really weird packages like big rogue
again, i'm on the hype train so take that all with a grain of salt, but even if new togg gets slammed into a specific archetype like miracle or shuffle, he's likely going to be an all-star card with it
Spirit of the Shark shadow step repeat
Everybody's talking about malygos, what about the card itself? Im immediately going to try a Toggwaggle deck which runs the Chef Nomi with Myra's Unstable Element Then you hopefully get Togwaggle's Schemeand Heistbaron Togwaggle, and get infinite treasure. If you have a prep, you can instantly Lackey, togwaggle, togwaggle scheme, prep, draw 3 0 cost togwaggles, all for 8 mana, the turn after you chef nomi.
I dont think you really need a lackey package. Just run one or two miscreants, and hold on to the lackeys until you can togwaggle.