It's cool and I love shaman best of all, but I fear going down the value control road, it's not a flexible strategy, don't want to get caught playing purely defensively with shaman. But we'll see how it goes with the rest of the cards.
That's 12 mana to get the effect going and you can't guarantee the discover outcome.
And 7 mana 5/5 is awfully slow, why give up tempo only to maybe get a chance to recover said tempo on the next turn.
I guess the meta will slow down with the rotation, and this has nice synergy with Hagatha hero card (2 minions in 1 card) . And Cancerwock I guess with 2 good battlecry in 1 card.
I think this is potentially the next The Runespear, or a staple in Hagatha decks. We'll see how good it is to choose targets with "discover and cast shaman spells".
The card has a Kazakus vibe I kinda like it actually. I just hate that this is attached to a vanilla 7 mana 5/5, it's reaaally slow.
In the video at least, it looked like it gave 1 targeted spell, and 1 spell that does not target.
Yeah that would make sense. Multiple targeting spells would get confusing, or ineffective at worst. Speaking of, it'll be interesting to see it work with Murmering Elemental/Bran.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
That's 12 mana to get the effect going and you can't guarantee the discover outcome.
And 7 mana 5/5 is awfully slow, why give up tempo only to maybe get a chance to recover said tempo on the next turn.
Think about this - if Kalimos, Primal Lord was an unconditional battlecry, would you play it? If the answer is yes, there is no reason you'd play this (which comes out on turn 8) and NOT Swampqueen Hagatha, who's effect also comes out on turn 8, consistency aside.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
In the video at least, it looked like it gave 1 targeted spell, and 1 spell that does not target.
Yeah that would make sense. Multiple targeting spells would get confusing, or ineffective at worst. Speaking of, it'll be interesting to see it work with Murmering Elemental/Bran.
I guess you create 2 horrors and each one of them casts 2 spells. And if you go further and combine the latter minions with Brann/Murmuring, those would function as if you cast two spells with 2 Electras.
I feel like not being able to play the Horror on the same turn is kind of a big downside, but then again, given how bad it feels when DK Rexxar pulls a lifesteal+rush comeback out of his green ass I'd say they learned that RNG-based comebacks on demand are a bad concept.
Still a few things that are unclear to me:
-If you pick two targetted spells will they always cast on the same target or do you get to target twice (I guess they#D have to since I don't think the game support double choice yet)?
-since death triggers only after both spells resolve (as seen in the video) would it mean if you picked something like LIghtning Storm + Forked LIghtning there's a possibility that forked lightning would hit an already dead minion?
-What happens if you pick something like Rockbiter weapon + Lava BUrst, since the former can only target friendly characters?
That's 12 mana to get the effect going and you can't guarantee the discover outcome.
And 7 mana 5/5 is awfully slow, why give up tempo only to maybe get a chance to recover said tempo on the next turn.
Think about this - if Kalimos, Primal Lord was an unconditional battlecry, would you play it? If the answer is yes, there is no reason you'd play this (which comes out on turn 8) and NOT Swampqueen Hagatha, who's effect also comes out on turn 8, consistency aside.
Kalimos, however, doesn'T require you to play a vanilla 5/5 on the turn before. You could easily play something like a BLazecaller or any boardclear + a Fire Fly to keep up tempo or defend yourself.
Hagatha effectively forces you to "skip" a turn for later benefit, which is fine for something like Kazakus or Nourish since they come out much earlier (and if you remember the Gadgetzan era you'd know that even that was pretty much not possible since you were being swarmed down by aggro)
HAggy will see play if Shaman gets a control archetype that has enough comeback potential to survive wasting a turn. If not, then this will be too slow even if it is technically a very powerful effect.
That's 12 mana to get the effect going and you can't guarantee the discover outcome.
And 7 mana 5/5 is awfully slow, why give up tempo only to maybe get a chance to recover said tempo on the next turn.
Think about this - if Kalimos, Primal Lord was an unconditional battlecry, would you play it? If the answer is yes, there is no reason you'd play this (which comes out on turn 8) and NOT Swampqueen Hagatha, who's effect also comes out on turn 8, consistency aside.
It's much easier to play any elemental from your elemental deck than it is to play exactly this 7 mana 5/5 that does nothing. I doubt you will play the horror on turn 8 as consistently as you imagine. Maybe you have a board and you built a board control horror. Maybe you have 30 health and you built a healing horror, you're stuck with that. Maybe you don't have a board and you built a spellstone/bloodlust horror. Kalimos? He's ready for anything, as long as you played an elemental the turn before, his effect is predictable and consistent and you only need 1 mana (firefly) to activate.
Not saying Kalimos is better here. But they are very different cards. Playing one doesn't mean playing the other is obvious. Or maybe it does, but only because of shudderwock.
I really like the design of this card and hope it will find some play. I voted playable, because i don't think paying 7 mana for vanila 5/5 body is worth even really good efect later on.
I find this card too slow, you need to give so much tempo for efect that will come next turn at earliest is worth it.
We will see soon. As i said I keep my fingers crossed cose i really like idea behind the card.
how the metagame pans out, since it's obviously terrible vs. Tempo/Aggro
what kind of spells Shaman receives, as there won't be that many left which would be worth to cast
Also, note that the chosen spells are still somewhat random and will apply Overload if you go for those with OL attached to them. I don't think they'll give Shaman another Healing Rain or Tidal Surge so the only way to heal up in the later stages would be to play Omega Mind + a moderately powerful AoE. Remember that Shaman didn't perform poorly during most of the Year of the Raven because of being unable to generate value, he just had no way (Control Shaman has no actual win condition and Shudderwock OTK was dead) to make use of all of it. So, for the moment my vote goes to "playable".
I am curious when this card will be nerfed. I estimate 2 weeks after the expansion release.
It's cool and I love shaman best of all, but I fear going down the value control road, it's not a flexible strategy, don't want to get caught playing purely defensively with shaman. But we'll see how it goes with the rest of the cards.
I don't think so.
That's 12 mana to get the effect going and you can't guarantee the discover outcome.
And 7 mana 5/5 is awfully slow, why give up tempo only to maybe get a chance to recover said tempo on the next turn.
I guess the meta will slow down with the rotation, and this has nice synergy with Hagatha hero card (2 minions in 1 card) . And Cancerwock I guess with 2 good battlecry in 1 card.
I think this is potentially the next The Runespear, or a staple in Hagatha decks. We'll see how good it is to choose targets with "discover and cast shaman spells".
The card has a Kazakus vibe I kinda like it actually. I just hate that this is attached to a vanilla 7 mana 5/5, it's reaaally slow.
Yeah that would make sense. Multiple targeting spells would get confusing, or ineffective at worst. Speaking of, it'll be interesting to see it work with Murmering Elemental/Bran.
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Think about this - if Kalimos, Primal Lord was an unconditional battlecry, would you play it? If the answer is yes, there is no reason you'd play this (which comes out on turn 8) and NOT Swampqueen Hagatha, who's effect also comes out on turn 8, consistency aside.
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I guess you create 2 horrors and each one of them casts 2 spells. And if you go further and combine the latter minions with Brann/Murmuring, those would function as if you cast two spells with 2 Electras.
This card will be played in most Shaman decks, which is to say, not very many decks.
The card is so cool, I love it.
I feel like not being able to play the Horror on the same turn is kind of a big downside, but then again, given how bad it feels when DK Rexxar pulls a lifesteal+rush comeback out of his green ass I'd say they learned that RNG-based comebacks on demand are a bad concept.
Still a few things that are unclear to me:
-If you pick two targetted spells will they always cast on the same target or do you get to target twice (I guess they#D have to since I don't think the game support double choice yet)?
-since death triggers only after both spells resolve (as seen in the video) would it mean if you picked something like LIghtning Storm + Forked LIghtning there's a possibility that forked lightning would hit an already dead minion?
-What happens if you pick something like Rockbiter weapon + Lava BUrst, since the former can only target friendly characters?
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
If we could chose targets for The Runespear just like with this card, it would've been at least decent
Kalimos, however, doesn'T require you to play a vanilla 5/5 on the turn before. You could easily play something like a BLazecaller or any boardclear + a Fire Fly to keep up tempo or defend yourself.
Hagatha effectively forces you to "skip" a turn for later benefit, which is fine for something like Kazakus or Nourish since they come out much earlier (and if you remember the Gadgetzan era you'd know that even that was pretty much not possible since you were being swarmed down by aggro)
HAggy will see play if Shaman gets a control archetype that has enough comeback potential to survive wasting a turn. If not, then this will be too slow even if it is technically a very powerful effect.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
It's much easier to play any elemental from your elemental deck than it is to play exactly this 7 mana 5/5 that does nothing. I doubt you will play the horror on turn 8 as consistently as you imagine. Maybe you have a board and you built a board control horror. Maybe you have 30 health and you built a healing horror, you're stuck with that. Maybe you don't have a board and you built a spellstone/bloodlust horror. Kalimos? He's ready for anything, as long as you played an elemental the turn before, his effect is predictable and consistent and you only need 1 mana (firefly) to activate.
Not saying Kalimos is better here. But they are very different cards. Playing one doesn't mean playing the other is obvious. Or maybe it does, but only because of shudderwock.
Why do I have the feeling that we'll see more of the "Teach" mechanic in the future?
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i think it will deal 1 damage, since the scheme isn't in your hand in the first place.
I'm skeptical just on the basis of the rotation
Rain of Toads, Lightning Storm, Feral Spirit are about it non targeted then with Avalanche Healing Rain and Tidal Surge Volcano gone, no heals too. Horror self damages on aoes btw :/
Beakered Lightning is 1xdamage, Haggata's Scheme would be 2 xdamage next turn.
I really like the design of this card and hope it will find some play. I voted playable, because i don't think paying 7 mana for vanila 5/5 body is worth even really good efect later on.
I find this card too slow, you need to give so much tempo for efect that will come next turn at earliest is worth it.
We will see soon. As i said I keep my fingers crossed cose i really like idea behind the card.
This cards powerlevel is entirely dependant on
Also, note that the chosen spells are still somewhat random and will apply Overload if you go for those with OL attached to them. I don't think they'll give Shaman another Healing Rain or Tidal Surge so the only way to heal up in the later stages would be to play Omega Mind + a moderately powerful AoE. Remember that Shaman didn't perform poorly during most of the Year of the Raven because of being unable to generate value, he just had no way (Control Shaman has no actual win condition and Shudderwock OTK was dead) to make use of all of it. So, for the moment my vote goes to "playable".
you guys are right, i dont know why i even bother anymore.
this card doesn't win you the game on the spot, therefore its 1600 dust and i dont know why i thought otherwise.
building your deck around shitty elementals that don't work and requiring set up > unconditional effect in a deck with actually good cards
apparently
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Super cool design. Fun, interactive. Also, balanced, because of the tempo loss at first. Flavourful for shamen.
Love it. Good job blizzard.
Occasionally gives helpful advice.