Flexibility folks. That is what makes this card good. Flexibility on this is amazing.
Not really, flexibility is cards like Branching Paths or Shadow Visions. These provide truly different options to adjust to your opponent's plays.
This card is more of a Shadow Word: Maybe? For low-attack minions, Shadow Word: Pain is more flexible to play because you don't use up all your mana first. For high-attack minions, Shadow Word: Death is more cost effective. For anything else that is worth spending a ton of mana on, there is Mind Control.
Say an Alexstrasza gets played. Why would I put this card in my deck and spend 8 mana just to kill that instead of putting a Mind Control in my deck and steal it completely for 2 more mana? Or just kill it for 3 mana with Shadow Word: Death? Flexibility would be if this card could do something other than just destroying a minion, which it can't.
Sure, it has a bit more flexibility in destroying minions but not enough to justify being put into a deck. Yes, it gives you a way to deal with 4 attack minions. But unless you end up with exactly 4 mana left, you're paying a high price for removing it. And there will be many cases where you effectively can't use this card because it will deplete all your mana and ruin your turn. You'd rather just have something else to play.
Early game it might be a little better because it could be a 3 mana Shadow Word: Pain when you need an additional low-cost removal card but other than that I can't really see a use good enough for this card to be put into a deck.
Maybe some decks will run 1 copy of this so they have a way to ensure a removal spell against everything but I'd still consider Mind Control myself.
Well it is a very versatile card, but is that versatility strong enough to make it a good card?
It is a very slow card if you want to kill a big minion, you can kill an 8 mana minion for 3 mana with Shadow Word: Death. You gain 5 mana of tempo. You will need to spend around 8 mana to kill and 8 mana minion with this. You gain no tempo and it is a reactive card, so its absolutely not good.
But if we compare it to Shadow Word: Pain, it might be actually better. It can't target minion, but I guess it will always kill the highest attack minion, which in most cases that's exactly what you want to do. For 3 mana you can do what SWP does for 2, 1 extra mana shouldn't make a big difference, versatility will negate that. And on the upside it can kill Hench Clan Thug, it can kill Twilight Drake it can kill Tundra Rhino for 2 mana etc.
So overall I think this card will replace Shadow Word: Pain in priest decks due to its strong versatility.
The best thing about the card is it's almost never a dead draw. It might be an inefficient draw but almost never dead. Shadow Word: Pain is bad in the late game and Shadow Word: Death is bad in the early game and BOTH are bad against 4 attack minions. This card is good in every scenario those cards are bad and good to mediocre in every scenario where those cards are good.
I agree though with your sentiment that this will likely replace Shadow Word: Pain is any deck that would run it.
Really great card to help priest out. Most of my fun Priest decks have to get a little lucky with aggro, this card is flexible enough to keep in the early game or to clear a large board late.
You people aren't seeing the big picture! This may not be as value oriented as pain or death, but it's SO FUCKING FLEXIBLE. No matter what stage of the game, if you draw this, you can use it. It's SO FUCKING GOOD.
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
This is 100% more efficient than SWD at killing 4-attack minions.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Flexibility folks. That is what makes this card good. Flexibility on this is amazing.
Not really, flexibility is cards like Branching Paths or Shadow Visions. These provide truly different options to adjust to your opponent's plays.
This card is more of a Shadow Word: Maybe? For low-attack minions, Shadow Word: Pain is more flexible to play because you don't use up all your mana first. For high-attack minions, Shadow Word: Death is more cost effective. For anything else that is worth spending a ton of mana on, there is Mind Control.
Say an Alexstrasza gets played. Why would I put this card in my deck and spend 8 mana just to kill that instead of putting a Mind Control in my deck and steal it completely for 2 more mana? Or just kill it for 3 mana with Shadow Word: Death? Flexibility would be if this card could do something other than just destroying a minion, which it can't.
Sure, it has a bit more flexibility in destroying minions but not enough to justify being put into a deck. Yes, it gives you a way to deal with 4 attack minions. But unless you end up with exactly 4 mana left, you're paying a high price for removing it. And there will be many cases where you effectively can't use this card because it will deplete all your mana and ruin your turn. You'd rather just have something else to play.
Early game it might be a little better because it could be a 3 mana Shadow Word: Pain when you need an additional low-cost removal card but other than that I can't really see a use good enough for this card to be put into a deck.
Maybe some decks will run 1 copy of this so they have a way to ensure a removal spell against everything but I'd still consider Mind Control myself.
Can Mind Control "kill" a minion on turns 1-9? It is a dead card until you are at 10 mana, this card is not. That is flexibility, it can be decent against any matchup, Mind Control is only good against pure greed.
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
And death is a purely a dead card against aggro. The point to the card is that it's useful, if not efficient at every stage of the game where both pain and death are not AND are completely useless against 4 attack minions at any point in the game. That makes this card quite strong. It's why many inefficient druid cards were strong because they gave flexibility.
Flexibility folks. That is what makes this card good. Flexibility on this is amazing.
Not really, flexibility is cards like Branching Paths or Shadow Visions. These provide truly different options to adjust to your opponent's plays.
This card is more of a Shadow Word: Maybe? For low-attack minions, Shadow Word: Pain is more flexible to play because you don't use up all your mana first. For high-attack minions, Shadow Word: Death is more cost effective. For anything else that is worth spending a ton of mana on, there is Mind Control.
Say an Alexstrasza gets played. Why would I put this card in my deck and spend 8 mana just to kill that instead of putting a Mind Control in my deck and steal it completely for 2 more mana? Or just kill it for 3 mana with Shadow Word: Death? Flexibility would be if this card could do something other than just destroying a minion, which it can't.
Sure, it has a bit more flexibility in destroying minions but not enough to justify being put into a deck. Yes, it gives you a way to deal with 4 attack minions. But unless you end up with exactly 4 mana left, you're paying a high price for removing it. And there will be many cases where you effectively can't use this card because it will deplete all your mana and ruin your turn. You'd rather just have something else to play.
Early game it might be a little better because it could be a 3 mana Shadow Word: Pain when you need an additional low-cost removal card but other than that I can't really see a use good enough for this card to be put into a deck.
Maybe some decks will run 1 copy of this so they have a way to ensure a removal spell against everything but I'd still consider Mind Control myself.
/sigh I didn't say the card was efficient. That is what pain and death are, efficient. I said it was flexible. And it is. Just because cards like branching paths is MORE flexible doesn't mean this one isn't. You're making nonsense arguments. Yes the card requires you to play it in the correct order and obviously there are situations where Death or Pain would be better (as they are more efficient) obviously. I will concede to this much, this cards worth will be determined by the variety of deck types in the meta after rotation. If we have some aggro, some control and some mid-range this cards ability to deal with any minion in all of those categories will make it a superior card. If we have a lot of aggro that doesn't have a lot of 4 cost minions then it won't see any play, if we have a lot of big beefy late game minions then Death will be the normal card to run. But if it's midrange I or a mix I expect we'll see this a lot.
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
And death is a purely a dead card against aggro. The point to the card is that it's useful, if not efficient at every stage of the game where both pain and death are not AND are completely useless against 4 attack minions at any point in the game. That makes this card quite strong. It's why many inefficient druid cards were strong because they gave flexibility.
Thing is, if you know you will be facing a lot of Aggro, you will put Pain in the deck, as most of their minions ususally have 3 or less attack. If you know everyone summons something like The Lich King (just as an example) at some point in the game, you put Death in the deck and are probably looking for some board clears to deal with smaller things. This is the only card that for Priest that can kill a 4 Attack minion without any other requirement, but then again, it depends on the meta if you even need to worry about those.
If every other deck plays Chillwind Yeti (just as an example), then I would probably use this card too. But when only one or two decks have such targets, and those are not even the biggest threats, I'm not so convinced I want to use Forbidden Words.
I might very well be wrong, but I really can't see this as an all that good card. Outside of Arena, I can ususally anticipate what cards my opponent will use, and except for some very specific meta state, I would probably always prefer Death or Pain in my deck. If I need both, I'd probably cut Pain for this, though.
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
And death is a purely a dead card against aggro. The point to the card is that it's useful, if not efficient at every stage of the game where both pain and death are not AND are completely useless against 4 attack minions at any point in the game. That makes this card quite strong. It's why many inefficient druid cards were strong because they gave flexibility.
Thing is, if you know you will be facing a lot of Aggro, you will put Pain in the deck, as most of their minions ususally have 3 or less attack. If you know everyone summons something like The Lich King (just as an example) at some point in the game, you put Death in the deck and are probably looking for some board clears to deal with smaller things. This is the only card that for Priest that can kill a 4 Attack minion without any other requirement, but then again, it depends on the meta if you even need to worry about those.
If every other deck plays Chillwind Yeti (just as an example), then I would probably use this card too. But when only one or two decks have such targets, and those are not even the biggest threats, I'm not so convinced I want to use Forbidden Words.
I might very well be wrong, but I really can't see this as an all that good card. Outside of Arena, I can ususally anticipate what cards my opponent will use, and except for some very specific meta state, I would probably always prefer Death or Pain in my deck. If I need both, I'd probably cut Pain for this, though.
I agree that the meta will determine the cards strength. However if the meta is fairly diverse, then it doesn't matter if you know what your opponent is going to play if you can't adequately assume what your opponent is going to actually be. If you know that 60%-70% of the meta is going to be full of beefy late game minions then yeah, I'll put death in instead. In literally any other meta I'd run this.
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
And death is a purely a dead card against aggro. The point to the card is that it's useful, if not efficient at every stage of the game where both pain and death are not AND are completely useless against 4 attack minions at any point in the game. That makes this card quite strong. It's why many inefficient druid cards were strong because they gave flexibility.
Thing is, if you know you will be facing a lot of Aggro, you will put Pain in the deck, as most of their minions ususally have 3 or less attack. If you know everyone summons something like The Lich King (just as an example) at some point in the game, you put Death in the deck and are probably looking for some board clears to deal with smaller things. This is the only card that for Priest that can kill a 4 Attack minion without any other requirement, but then again, it depends on the meta if you even need to worry about those.
If every other deck plays Chillwind Yeti (just as an example), then I would probably use this card too. But when only one or two decks have such targets, and those are not even the biggest threats, I'm not so convinced I want to use Forbidden Words.
I might very well be wrong, but I really can't see this as an all that good card. Outside of Arena, I can ususally anticipate what cards my opponent will use, and except for some very specific meta state, I would probably always prefer Death or Pain in my deck. If I need both, I'd probably cut Pain for this, though.
I agree that the meta will determine the cards strength. However if the meta is fairly diverse, then it doesn't matter if you know what your opponent is going to play if you can't adequately assume what your opponent is going to actually be. If you know that 60%-70% of the meta is going to be full of beefy late game minions then yeah, I'll put death in instead. In literally any other meta I'd run this.
One strong case for running Death over this is that Anduin rotates out.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
It occurs to me that Priest has a history of cards which reduce the attack of enemy minions, and if we see a couple of those effects in this expansion then this card could be fantastic.
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
And death is a purely a dead card against aggro. The point to the card is that it's useful, if not efficient at every stage of the game where both pain and death are not AND are completely useless against 4 attack minions at any point in the game. That makes this card quite strong. It's why many inefficient druid cards were strong because they gave flexibility.
Thing is, if you know you will be facing a lot of Aggro, you will put Pain in the deck, as most of their minions ususally have 3 or less attack. If you know everyone summons something like The Lich King (just as an example) at some point in the game, you put Death in the deck and are probably looking for some board clears to deal with smaller things. This is the only card that for Priest that can kill a 4 Attack minion without any other requirement, but then again, it depends on the meta if you even need to worry about those.
If every other deck plays Chillwind Yeti (just as an example), then I would probably use this card too. But when only one or two decks have such targets, and those are not even the biggest threats, I'm not so convinced I want to use Forbidden Words.
I might very well be wrong, but I really can't see this as an all that good card. Outside of Arena, I can ususally anticipate what cards my opponent will use, and except for some very specific meta state, I would probably always prefer Death or Pain in my deck. If I need both, I'd probably cut Pain for this, though.
I agree that the meta will determine the cards strength. However if the meta is fairly diverse, then it doesn't matter if you know what your opponent is going to play if you can't adequately assume what your opponent is going to actually be. If you know that 60%-70% of the meta is going to be full of beefy late game minions then yeah, I'll put death in instead. In literally any other meta I'd run this.
One strong case for running Death over this is that Anduin rotates out.
True. But only if you feel like you'd need Anduin in the first place. That is to say if we face 80% aggro decks then Death may see no play at all. It'll just depend! I am excited. I love big end of year rotation time!
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They're entirely different cards. One is AOE, one is spot removal.
"it's very slow if you want to kill an 8-drop."
If your concern is killing an 8-drop, your concern isn't speed. The fact that this can kill:
etc etc, ON CURVE, means this will be a strong consideration at worst.
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that's it, Prieststone is confirmed, not even 4-attack minions can stop them now :^)
on a serious note, Alll forbidden spells saw play back in WotOG. Flexibility is king, this is especially true in Hearthstone.
However, the fact that it eats up all your mana is kind of a huge downside. Either way, this will be run depending on what roams in the meta.
If Ysera or other big value generators with 4-attack are played then this will see play out of necessity (unless we go back to running Mind Controls)
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
won't kill the first 3 on curve due to them being 3-mana (also Shroom Brewer will rotate)
Other than that you are very much correct. Will probably be a 1-of in any control Priest deck even if just because there's space for removals
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
Not really, flexibility is cards like Branching Paths or Shadow Visions.
These provide truly different options to adjust to your opponent's plays.
This card is more of a Shadow Word: Maybe?
For low-attack minions, Shadow Word: Pain is more flexible to play because you don't use up all your mana first.
For high-attack minions, Shadow Word: Death is more cost effective.
For anything else that is worth spending a ton of mana on, there is Mind Control.
Say an Alexstrasza gets played. Why would I put this card in my deck and spend 8 mana just to kill that instead of putting a Mind Control in my deck and steal it completely for 2 more mana? Or just kill it for 3 mana with Shadow Word: Death?
Flexibility would be if this card could do something other than just destroying a minion, which it can't.
Sure, it has a bit more flexibility in destroying minions but not enough to justify being put into a deck.
Yes, it gives you a way to deal with 4 attack minions. But unless you end up with exactly 4 mana left, you're paying a high price for removing it. And there will be many cases where you effectively can't use this card because it will deplete all your mana and ruin your turn. You'd rather just have something else to play.
Early game it might be a little better because it could be a 3 mana Shadow Word: Pain when you need an additional low-cost removal card but other than that I can't really see a use good enough for this card to be put into a deck.
Maybe some decks will run 1 copy of this so they have a way to ensure a removal spell against everything but I'd still consider Mind Control myself.
The best thing about the card is it's almost never a dead draw. It might be an inefficient draw but almost never dead. Shadow Word: Pain is bad in the late game and Shadow Word: Death is bad in the early game and BOTH are bad against 4 attack minions. This card is good in every scenario those cards are bad and good to mediocre in every scenario where those cards are good.
I agree though with your sentiment that this will likely replace Shadow Word: Pain is any deck that would run it.
Really great card to help priest out. Most of my fun Priest decks have to get a little lucky with aggro, this card is flexible enough to keep in the early game or to clear a large board late.
Coin if going second, or yes it on curve if going first (unless your opponent coins their 3-drop, which in Hunter is kind of silly).
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You people aren't seeing the big picture! This may not be as value oriented as pain or death, but it's SO FUCKING FLEXIBLE. No matter what stage of the game, if you draw this, you can use it. It's SO FUCKING GOOD.
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...Or my Custom Elemental Expansion!
Why spend 5+ mana when you can kill almost any big minion for 3?
Granted, it isn't much worse than a Pain, if you want to use it as that, and it has the extra flexibility to go up, and you can finally kill a 4 attack minion, AND it can be a Pain OR a Death depending on the situation. But the bigger the target, the less efficient this card becomes, and it is already rather inefficient.
Also, the metagame ususally tells you, whether Pain or Death should be in your deck. Unless Priest decks have so many good cards that they end up with very few flex spots, so that they would rather cut down on removal and include this over Death or Pain, I doubt this will ever end up as a viable option.
Either that, or SURPRISE, some more basic cards get nerfed. I wonder which one is more likely.
This is 100% more efficient than SWD at killing 4-attack minions.
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Can Mind Control "kill" a minion on turns 1-9? It is a dead card until you are at 10 mana, this card is not. That is flexibility, it can be decent against any matchup, Mind Control is only good against pure greed.
And death is a purely a dead card against aggro. The point to the card is that it's useful, if not efficient at every stage of the game where both pain and death are not AND are completely useless against 4 attack minions at any point in the game. That makes this card quite strong. It's why many inefficient druid cards were strong because they gave flexibility.
Good, ironically, against wall priest lol.
/sigh I didn't say the card was efficient. That is what pain and death are, efficient. I said it was flexible. And it is. Just because cards like branching paths is MORE flexible doesn't mean this one isn't. You're making nonsense arguments. Yes the card requires you to play it in the correct order and obviously there are situations where Death or Pain would be better (as they are more efficient) obviously. I will concede to this much, this cards worth will be determined by the variety of deck types in the meta after rotation. If we have some aggro, some control and some mid-range this cards ability to deal with any minion in all of those categories will make it a superior card. If we have a lot of aggro that doesn't have a lot of 4 cost minions then it won't see any play, if we have a lot of big beefy late game minions then Death will be the normal card to run. But if it's midrange I or a mix I expect we'll see this a lot.
Thing is, if you know you will be facing a lot of Aggro, you will put Pain in the deck, as most of their minions ususally have 3 or less attack. If you know everyone summons something like The Lich King (just as an example) at some point in the game, you put Death in the deck and are probably looking for some board clears to deal with smaller things. This is the only card that for Priest that can kill a 4 Attack minion without any other requirement, but then again, it depends on the meta if you even need to worry about those.
If every other deck plays Chillwind Yeti (just as an example), then I would probably use this card too. But when only one or two decks have such targets, and those are not even the biggest threats, I'm not so convinced I want to use Forbidden Words.
I might very well be wrong, but I really can't see this as an all that good card. Outside of Arena, I can ususally anticipate what cards my opponent will use, and except for some very specific meta state, I would probably always prefer Death or Pain in my deck. If I need both, I'd probably cut Pain for this, though.
I agree that the meta will determine the cards strength. However if the meta is fairly diverse, then it doesn't matter if you know what your opponent is going to play if you can't adequately assume what your opponent is going to actually be. If you know that 60%-70% of the meta is going to be full of beefy late game minions then yeah, I'll put death in instead. In literally any other meta I'd run this.
One strong case for running Death over this is that Anduin rotates out.
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It occurs to me that Priest has a history of cards which reduce the attack of enemy minions, and if we see a couple of those effects in this expansion then this card could be fantastic.
True. But only if you feel like you'd need Anduin in the first place. That is to say if we face 80% aggro decks then Death may see no play at all. It'll just depend! I am excited. I love big end of year rotation time!