Hearthpwn

Quote from SyleSpawn »

You're omitting the fact that Geddon and Rag has immediate effect upon playing though. Their effect takes place before the opponent can counter it.

 

Ragnaros can take down a big/threatening minion or land lethal damage without your opponent having the opportunity to shut it down.

Geddon, same as Ragnaros.

Reaper does not provide anything upon you play it. You'll have to wait till next turn to get something out of it IF it survives. By turn 8, you can be assured that your opponent is most likely holding some sort of removal in hand. I would really not compare Reaper to Rag or Baron.

I did factor that in - that's why Geddon is outstanding when played on a full board.  Any endgame cards that cost the same amount of mana beg to be compared, although some 8-mana cards can be considered 9 or 10-mana two-card combos (grom, for example).

The Reaper does have an immediate unlisted effect on the board.  The invisible text reads: "your opponent is probably stupid if he plays more than a single minion next turn."  Ragnaros encourages your opponent to fill up the board.

YOLO-Reaper vs. YOLO-Rag is the question here. Rag indeed gets that free punch, but your opponent has a pretty easy time playing around him after that punch.  Reaper gets no free punch, but really puts your opponent into a tight spot.

I do agree with your points, Reaper feels like a soft taunt even. I am still a tad bit skeptical about its usefulness compare to the other cards. I would probably see the feedback it brings (if I did not manage to get it myself when its release) to further make my mind up about the card.

Let's not forget it's also a Mech.  I have the feeling in a month or so that's going to mean A LOT.

Hey guys - I just realized something:  The perfect counter to this card is an abomination.

"go ahead - hit it."

Quote from YimmyTheTulip »

Hey guys - I just realized something:  The perfect counter to this card is an abomination.

"go ahead - hit it."

??? in the worst case scenario: 9 health - 4 abomination atk - 2 abomination AOE ... 3 health left 

An if the guy who placed abomination has more minions arround it, even worse ...

care to share the math behind your idea or you just inverted the atk/health of the 4000 ?

Quote from MarcoTomb »

It's funny how if the legendaries are good, everybody loses its mind because "omg this game is more p2w than ever", and if they are bad people complain that they are useless and a waste of legendary slots. I agree none of the legendaries spoiled so far looks like the next Loatheb, but I feel it's a good thing.

This one is a niche card with an interesting effect, as every legendary should be. 

Quote from goodnuffshow »

Hearthstone players are never satisfied. At 8 mana it's too slow, but even a 6 mana card with weaker stats would be considered overpowered because it can get up to a 3 for 1 with every attack. People are even claiming it's overpowered at 8 mana. If the stats were so low to account for its ability players would complain about the stats instead. People claim some cards are bad because they draw removal or can be silenced, as if any other card in the game can't be removed or silenced. Nothing is good enough. 

 It's all about power creep. Players' instinct is to want cards that are clearly better than what they already have available to them. But Blizzard is working hard to keep the game from power creeping (much). Which means all of the cards they come out with are going to look at least a little bit weak compared to (the best) cards we're already used to ... and the players who don't have any game-designer mentality will complain a lot, while the game designer players will nod quietly in approval.

Quote from rexracer »

 I think if this card had charge (with a weaker body, like 5/6), or any "instant value" he will get a lot of play, but I really prefer the way he is.

 My first thought on seeing this card: "Oh, this is what King Krush should have been!" (Meaning take King Krush, add this special ability to him in addition to Charge, and change his stats to 6/9. He would still cost one more mana, be class-specific, and be a Beast instead of a Mech, compared to the Foe Reaper.)

Quote from Cmannen »

They brought the term Adjacent, suddenly they don't feel for using it.

Blizzard.

 One of the advantages they have for making a digital card game rather than a physical-world M:tG clone is that they don't have to have a lawyer edit all the card text to make sure its wording is 100% consistent ...

Quote from YimmyTheTulip »

Hey guys - I just realized something:  The perfect counter to this card is an abomination.

"go ahead - hit it."

I don't get it. What's special about an Abomination against the Foe Reaper? Other than the fact that 8 damage to the things next to the Abom is likely overkill.

Quote from Exu_Peludo »

Quote from YimmyTheTulip »

Hey guys - I just realized something:  The perfect counter to this card is an abomination.

"go ahead - hit it."

??? in the worst case scenario: 9 health - 4 abomination atk - 2 abomination AOE ... 3 health left 

An if the guy who placed abomination has more minions arround it, even worse ...

care to share the math behind your idea or you just inverted the atk/health of the 4000 ?

I was assuming that the opposing board was otherwise empty.  The problem Reaper creates for the opponent is that it forces him to either remove it, or play exactly one minion.  Abomination hurts the rest of the board and brings the Reaper down to 3 health.  That particular amount is significant because it's a frostbolt, lightning bolt, rockbiter weapon, even a wolfrider.  Of course, priest heals mess that up.

Because of that one-minion thing I mentioned, this card snowballs the game if not removed immediately (slightly harder than other 8 drops, due to BGH range).  Abomination kills that momentum.  Obviously straight-up removal is better.  Any single taunt kills that momentum too, but no taunt has 9 attack, so abomination gets the most value in this scenario.

I think those who are writing off this card are jumping the gun.  I think there are decks that will definitely run this.  I could easily see this being a decent card for paladin deck with heavy late game.  If you use your removal early game on the first few waves of aggro, this card can serve as extra removal or face damage to shutdown the rest of the deck. 

I for one am super excited to see how all of this will play out in the months to come. 

This card is good the same moment cards like malygos and gruul become good, which as we already know is not very often. That moment is when they can't easily be traded into and likely won't be killed by hard removal. The moment blizzard nerfs hard removal is the same moment these kinds of cards become playable.

Malygos is "playable" in very specific decks because you can get some immediate value like backstab for 7 or moonfire for 6. Gruul has no combos and is therefore worse, just like this card which does not have any combos either.

9 health might be nice for tanking ragnaros hits but remember gruul also tanks rag hits if he was played first, and gruul can actually kill ragnaros afterwards.

Some considerations: 

Freaking 120+ cards will destroy all our concepts of Deck Building (Only the bases will survive: Aggro, Control etc). So, saying "I don't know how can I fit it" or "This card is too slow" is useless because you don't know what kind of deck people will create once GvG comes. I remember a lot of people saying that Sludge Belcher sucked because it was just a slower Taz'dingo and it's actually one of the best cards from the adventure.

And about Foe, it has an interesting effect with a "fair" amount of mana: Ogre (6 mana) + Power Word: Shield (1 mana) + Betrayal (2 mana) = 9 mana (with an awesome discount of 1 mana). But it sucks that his effect only takes place when attacking.

I can see Foe being pretty awesome in Arena and I really want to test it on Ramp Druid :D 

Give it charge and 5 attack!

Would be much better at 6 mana 4/6 with charge and still better even w/o charge.

Think that the latin saying: "In Medio Virtuos" or roughly translating it, in the middle is the virtue, would be a good aproach to the new card evaluation ...

As already said, there is so much we dont know yet, and even with what we know there is a lot we dont "see" at first glance of the new cards (announced and to be announced), so I think that this card can have good usage in some types of decks, as allways it is weak against some deck types, but may excell against others.

The difference in making this card good or bad is many times a good insight on how and when to play it, you have so many new cards that can help summon it earlier as the existing inervates, the new mech warper card, and even the old and (un)reliable alarm-o-bot, not thinking of a recombulator or piloted card summon ...

So lets give this (and other) cards a fair evaluation 

IMHO: Good for control decks, weak/slow against agroo, not a must have right now as the meta is more agroish, but see a (bright?) future in a nice mech themed druid deck

I find the wording very interesting. "Also damages ... When he attacks."

If it were: "When he attacks, deal his damage to adjacent minions" then that would trigger as he attacks regardless of what happens. IE: he gets put back in hand by a freezing trap. (The pally buff works that way with similar wording) however I don't believe that will be the case here. It appears as though it is not a triggered ability but instead a static ability. He does not have an ability that goes off but instead simply splashes his damage. 

Which also means that a misdirection with him on the board could lead to some very interesting mishaps, including killing himself!

I don't know about this one yet. Sure, it's slow and is only good when your opponent has a big(ish) board state, which is when you want to be fast, not slow. But it could be one of those things where if your opponent doesn't have hard removal for it, they'll trade 2 or 3 for 1 with minions, sine if they let it survive for a turn, you kill 3 things without losing your guy. It might be insane. It might be disappointingly average. It's an interesting effect though. Flamestrike on a stick.

Quote from vikan »

When you pay 8 Mana you NEED an effect that comes the same turn. RIsking wasting 8 mana  is not worth it. 

Yeah, you need an effect that comes THIS TURN. That's why nobody runs Tirion Fordring. 8 mana 6/6 with no effect when he comes down? Trash. Totally. You'd never see that in a Paladin deck. Never.

Well he has an immediate effect - he's a taunt.

Quote from RukiMotomiya »

Quote from vikan »

When you pay 8 Mana you NEED an effect that comes the same turn. RIsking wasting 8 mana  is not worth it. 

Yeah, you need an effect that comes THIS TURN. That's why nobody runs Tirion Fordring. 8 mana 6/6 with no effect when he comes down? Trash. Totally. You'd never see that in a Paladin deck. Never.

I think most people include taunt as an immediate effect. I actually don't disagree with your point that a big beefy minion can still be valuable even if the effect is delayed. I'm just saying that the argument that others are making is not disproven here. The fact of the matter is that every commonly played card above 6 mana has an immediate impact on the board state. If you're going to use up a full turn late game playing something, it kind of needs to be vastly important. And while I'm excited to play with this card, it can't be denied that it is more akin to a Boulderfist Ogre or a Giant (in that its a huge board presence/threat) than to a Ragnaros or Tyrion (which can single handedly swing a game even when played at low life or at a major disadvantage)