I'm voting bad. Giving up card advantage to go all in early game, doesn't seem that viable to me. There are still a lot of removal tools. This card might be better later in the game for combos and for playing more than 10 mana worth of cards.
This is outstanding; it's the kind of card you full mulligan for and Mage has the card draw to back it.
This is what Mana Wyrm died for. I'd expect Tempo Mage to be great as usual post-rotation.
Where is the great tempo-deal with using 2 cards for gaining max an extra +2/+2 on a minion? Elementals never had the problem that they cost too much, it's the requirement that you need to play an elemental last turn that breaks their neck. And just by dropping a bigger minion on board does not prevent you still having issues with real tempo cards out there.
In worst case you draw both evocations and 0 elementals, then you have around 0 tempo on board. And even if you manage to bring out a big minion: multiple small ones are ALWAYS better than having 1 big minion out.
I see in this card anti-tempo. Because mage is no druid: Druid can create mana crystals, mage can't. So you are far far easier out of stream than druid who has it easier to have multiple big minions in their deck.
I'm voting bad. Giving up card advantage to go all in early game, doesn't seem that viable to me. There are still a lot of removal tools. This card might be better later in the game for combos and for playing more than 10 mana worth of cards.
And even then: when exactly are the cases that you need to spend more than 10 mana on elementals: there is no OTK involved in elementals itself.
This card is bad at the beginning of the game because of removals and it gets worse the longer the games go on. So what's the killer-move that makes this combo so bad, except hoping for a good mulligan and throwing out early a big minion (that still takes 2 turns to kill a 1 mana 1/1 with divine shield)
This is outstanding; it's the kind of card you full mulligan for and Mage has the card draw to back it.
This is what Mana Wyrm died for. I'd expect Tempo Mage to be great as usual post-rotation.
Where is the great tempo-deal with using 2 cards for gaining max an extra +2/+2 on a minion? Elementals never had the problem that they cost too much, it's the requirement that you need to play an elemental last turn that breaks their neck. And just by dropping a bigger minion on board does not prevent you still having issues with real tempo cards out there.
In worst case you draw both evocations and 0 elementals, then you have around 0 tempo on board. And even if you manage to bring out a big minion: multiple small ones are ALWAYS better than having 1 big minion out.
I see in this card anti-tempo. Because mage is no druid: Druid can create mana crystals, mage can't. So you are far far easier out of stream than druid who has it easier to have multiple big minions in their deck.
I don’t know. Playing just a slightly bigger thing early on is really good. Turn 1 Yeti used to win games.
Mana Wyrm died for this card. If Mana Wyrm was still 1 mana, this card would be meta-defining. Outside that, it is a card that I don't like to put in my deck or get in any spell generation. It is great for elemental decks but that's about it. The early plays that this card can do shouldn't be underestimated but it is something that I don't want to have if I don't have very few or none elementals yet I feel like I will be seeing this card alot.
The two main mage decks with elementsel ATM run dragons fury and book of specters, both of which have anti-synergy with this card. A new build of mage will need to be built to accommodate this card, and I'm not convinced it will be better then the existing archetypes. But we'll see
This is outstanding; it's the kind of card you full mulligan for and Mage has the card draw to back it.
This is what Mana Wyrm died for. I'd expect Tempo Mage to be great as usual post-rotation.
...<snip>...
I don’t know. Playing just a slightly bigger thing early on is really good. Turn 1 Yeti used to win games.
A long long time ago... Just because it was in vanilla sometimes a gamewinner doesn't make this one in times where you can have 4 minions up on turn 2. And back then we didn't had any 1 mana 1/1 Taunt with Divine Shield or a 3 mana 1/4 taunt... ok this we had but also add another taunt in your hand. A turn 1 3/6 Water Elemental does seem very strong, but in reality... you just used 2 cards for this, you probably only have 3 cards left in your hand and if the enemy get rid of it on turn 2, then you only have 4 cards on turn 2 and there's the really high chance that you simply won't recover from it. And even if there's a 3/6 on the field: what does it matter against the oneslaught that nowadays happens. Yeti used to win games in vanilla; that's so long ago that we call in vanilla. And Yeti back then was a viable card, and a turn 1 yeti was backbreaking. Now... a 4/5 on 1 still need to get over taunts, and there are so many poisonous minions, hard removal, board control, freeze-effects or whatever to stall the board to get rid of it.
But the strenght that's only happened because druid had innervate, a card far far superior to it. Innervate's strength is that you could actually play any card with it: spells, minions or whatever. Here you only have elementals.
I don't think that a conditional innervate is any good; at least not even in the same ballpark where innervate was.
Don't forget that we already had a card that was quite strong, voted high because it reduced cost of a card (and here even permanently), and nobody used it: it's the paladin 5/5 dragon that reduced the mana cost of another dragon permanently by 2.
This isn't meta defining in an "overall gameplay" way but more in a "if you play this archetype, you'll need 2 of these" way, I already see some crazy elemental shenanigans and until half of them rotate along with Jaina hero card, this is gonna be one of those staples.
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Hi i'm Tyler and I play hearthstone and watch anime.
Sometimes i make cards. I'd like to do that for a career one day if ever possible.
I don't share the enthusiasm of playing Water Elemental on turn 1 or similar things. In vanilla that was strong, nowadays it's nothing special. There's a ton of removal, board swarming, poison. Going all in to only hero power later doesn't work, neither does zoo curve approach in mage.
I think the only way to use this card is to have a draw based somewhat elemental deck. You have to swim in cards for it to work. I think it only works for tempo-burn mage. Behold the tools of creation, Aluneth (which won't last long), new expansion's draw cards into Sorcerer's Apprentices, Cosmic Anomaly, Celestial Emissary and burn. If it goes super well (which I doubt), then maybe there could be a place for Mana Wyrm.
Aggro Mage has a lot of ways to refill his hand too (Aluneth, Arcane Intellect, Pyros, perhaps even Bonfire Elemental at the deck's top end). This card gives so much tempo advantage that it will be definitely worth it. It lets you play Cosmic Anomaly and burn spells the same turn.
And no, Book of Specters is not a good card for Elementals, it's only usable in Murlocs. Elementals can get card advantage without crippling your deck. Just put some more removal and burn into your deck and it'll work better.
The two main mage decks with elementsel ATM run dragons fury and book of specters, both of which have anti-synergy with this card. A new build of mage will need to be built to accommodate this card, and I'm not convinced it will be better then the existing archetypes. But we'll see
I could definitely see a tempo focused Elemental Mage seeing play. Did you forget about Bonfire Elemental? Blazecaller?
Old innervate for a deck that I'm not sure wants it.
Old Innervate = very good Elementals =/= very good Book of Specters = very good Other spells in a Specters deck =/= very good
I suppose this can help smooth out elemental chaining...but Book of Specters sort of does that by simply giving you more Elementals to use.
It feels like the best thing you could do with this is go Pyros into Bonfire.
The problem with Elementals is that they're generally pretty low tempo for the first few turns. This helps your T1 and T2 plays immensely with possibilities like T1 Nightmare Amalgam or T2 Fire Plume Phoenix. Like pre-nerf Mana Wyrm, it's a card you want in your opening hand and I don't think it's a huge deal if you end up discarding it later via Book of Specters.
The biggest thing holding it back right now I think is that we're probably about one well-statted 3 cost Elemental short of turn one consistency. It's a lot to ask to find both an Elemental Evocation and a Nightmare Amalgam in your opening hand. While I like curving into Tar Creeper to protect your other minions, it's not all that threatening on turn 1. You'd like to get a higher attack minion out there to start chipping away.
The support may not be there immediately, but at some point I think the early tempo advantage is gonna be too good to pass up and tempo Mage will start winning a lot of games off of these explosive starts.
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I'm voting bad. Giving up card advantage to go all in early game, doesn't seem that viable to me. There are still a lot of removal tools. This card might be better later in the game for combos and for playing more than 10 mana worth of cards.
Where is the great tempo-deal with using 2 cards for gaining max an extra +2/+2 on a minion? Elementals never had the problem that they cost too much, it's the requirement that you need to play an elemental last turn that breaks their neck. And just by dropping a bigger minion on board does not prevent you still having issues with real tempo cards out there.
In worst case you draw both evocations and 0 elementals, then you have around 0 tempo on board. And even if you manage to bring out a big minion: multiple small ones are ALWAYS better than having 1 big minion out.
I see in this card anti-tempo. Because mage is no druid: Druid can create mana crystals, mage can't. So you are far far easier out of stream than druid who has it easier to have multiple big minions in their deck.
And even then: when exactly are the cases that you need to spend more than 10 mana on elementals: there is no OTK involved in elementals itself.
This card is bad at the beginning of the game because of removals and it gets worse the longer the games go on. So what's the killer-move that makes this combo so bad, except hoping for a good mulligan and throwing out early a big minion (that still takes 2 turns to kill a 1 mana 1/1 with divine shield)
I don’t know. Playing just a slightly bigger thing early on is really good. Turn 1 Yeti used to win games.
I know this is now going to be the only random mage spell I will ever get.
Super cycle with Gadgetzan Auctioneer
Mana Wyrm died for this card. If Mana Wyrm was still 1 mana, this card would be meta-defining.
Outside that, it is a card that I don't like to put in my deck or get in any spell generation. It is great for elemental decks but that's about it. The early plays that this card can do shouldn't be underestimated but it is something that I don't want to have if I don't have very few or none elementals yet I feel like I will be seeing this card alot.
this card is hot garbage
The two main mage decks with elementsel ATM run dragons fury and book of specters, both of which have anti-synergy with this card. A new build of mage will need to be built to accommodate this card, and I'm not convinced it will be better then the existing archetypes. But we'll see
A long long time ago... Just because it was in vanilla sometimes a gamewinner doesn't make this one in times where you can have 4 minions up on turn 2. And back then we didn't had any 1 mana 1/1 Taunt with Divine Shield or a 3 mana 1/4 taunt... ok this we had but also add another taunt in your hand. A turn 1 3/6 Water Elemental does seem very strong, but in reality... you just used 2 cards for this, you probably only have 3 cards left in your hand and if the enemy get rid of it on turn 2, then you only have 4 cards on turn 2 and there's the really high chance that you simply won't recover from it. And even if there's a 3/6 on the field: what does it matter against the oneslaught that nowadays happens. Yeti used to win games in vanilla; that's so long ago that we call in vanilla. And Yeti back then was a viable card, and a turn 1 yeti was backbreaking. Now... a 4/5 on 1 still need to get over taunts, and there are so many poisonous minions, hard removal, board control, freeze-effects or whatever to stall the board to get rid of it.
But the strenght that's only happened because druid had innervate, a card far far superior to it. Innervate's strength is that you could actually play any card with it: spells, minions or whatever. Here you only have elementals.
I don't think that a conditional innervate is any good; at least not even in the same ballpark where innervate was.
Don't forget that we already had a card that was quite strong, voted high because it reduced cost of a card (and here even permanently), and nobody used it: it's the paladin 5/5 dragon that reduced the mana cost of another dragon permanently by 2.
This isn't meta defining in an "overall gameplay" way but more in a "if you play this archetype, you'll need 2 of these" way, I already see some crazy elemental shenanigans and until half of them rotate along with Jaina hero card, this is gonna be one of those staples.
Hi i'm Tyler and I play hearthstone and watch anime.
Sometimes i make cards. I'd like to do that for a career one day if ever possible.
I was never a fan of the old innerverate, it was an awful topdeck card, that's why I only ever put 1 in my decks.
Unless you can do an OTK with this I don't see the point.
I don't share the enthusiasm of playing Water Elemental on turn 1 or similar things. In vanilla that was strong, nowadays it's nothing special. There's a ton of removal, board swarming, poison. Going all in to only hero power later doesn't work, neither does zoo curve approach in mage.
I think the only way to use this card is to have a draw based somewhat elemental deck. You have to swim in cards for it to work. I think it only works for tempo-burn mage. Behold the tools of creation, Aluneth (which won't last long), new expansion's draw cards into Sorcerer's Apprentices, Cosmic Anomaly, Celestial Emissary and burn. If it goes super well (which I doubt), then maybe there could be a place for Mana Wyrm.
The card is amazing. Perhaps even Fire Plume Phoenix could become good in Mage with it.
Midrange Elemental Mage has tons of way to draw and generate cards (Bonfire Elemental, Servant of Kalimos, Pyros, Arcane Intellect, Ruby Spellstone) to the point where you are drowning in cards but can't keep up decent tempo. This card will change everything. This card enables turn 2 Water Elemental, turn 3 Bonfire Elemental and turn 5 Blazecaller. It gives you spare mana to keep Elemental chain going while using removal. It lets you play Cosmic Anomaly and removal early. Super powerful.
Aggro Mage has a lot of ways to refill his hand too (Aluneth, Arcane Intellect, Pyros, perhaps even Bonfire Elemental at the deck's top end). This card gives so much tempo advantage that it will be definitely worth it. It lets you play Cosmic Anomaly and burn spells the same turn.
And no, Book of Specters is not a good card for Elementals, it's only usable in Murlocs. Elementals can get card advantage without crippling your deck. Just put some more removal and burn into your deck and it'll work better.
broken af.
Old innervate for a deck that I'm not sure wants it.
Old Innervate = very good
Elementals =/= very good
Book of Specters = very good
Other spells in a Specters deck =/= very good
I suppose this can help smooth out elemental chaining...but Book of Specters sort of does that by simply giving you more Elementals to use.
It feels like the best thing you could do with this is go Pyros into Bonfire.
coin mountain giant kappa
I could definitely see a tempo focused Elemental Mage seeing play. Did you forget about Bonfire Elemental? Blazecaller?
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People keep calling this innervate, seems a lot more like preparation to me. Not that they are hugely different, but still...
The problem with Elementals is that they're generally pretty low tempo for the first few turns. This helps your T1 and T2 plays immensely with possibilities like T1 Nightmare Amalgam or T2 Fire Plume Phoenix. Like pre-nerf Mana Wyrm, it's a card you want in your opening hand and I don't think it's a huge deal if you end up discarding it later via Book of Specters.
The biggest thing holding it back right now I think is that we're probably about one well-statted 3 cost Elemental short of turn one consistency. It's a lot to ask to find both an Elemental Evocation and a Nightmare Amalgam in your opening hand. While I like curving into Tar Creeper to protect your other minions, it's not all that threatening on turn 1. You'd like to get a higher attack minion out there to start chipping away.
The support may not be there immediately, but at some point I think the early tempo advantage is gonna be too good to pass up and tempo Mage will start winning a lot of games off of these explosive starts.