Will help a lot for sure, OTK combo decks never was a problem in Wild, be able to OTK your opponent in freaking turn 6 outracing an aggro deck is the broken element that ruined all.
Kun, Aviana, and Juicy Psychmelon are all balanced in a vacuum. The problems arise when you combine them, which makes it difficult to determine what should be nerfed.
Kun, Aviana, and Juicy Psychmelon are all balanced in a vacuum. The problems arise when you combine them, which makes it difficult to determine what should be nerfed.
I attempted to corroborate a nerf which would fix the issue as a whole without leaving any cards unplayable.
I just wanted to say "it is completely pointless" since aviana kun is never a 2-card combo, but always a 4 or more card combo. One innervate wont matter much. BUT: You're right. The draw effect of the psychmelon gets nerfed simultaneously. And that will likely weaken the deck overall.
Disclaimer: I am presently not playing much wild, so firstly I base my opinion solely on the low (means 15+) rank experience and on my general hearthstone knowledge and secondly, I do not really know whether the combo is actually OP or needs to be OP to compete with the rest of the viable wild decks. But that nerf does not seem over the top and also not completely crippling the deck.
I just wanted to say "it is completely pointless" since aviana kun is never a 2-card combo, but always a 4 or more card combo. One innervate wont matter much. BUT: You're right. The draw effect of the psychmelon gets nerfed simultaneously. And that will likely weaken the deck overall.
Disclaimer: I am presently not playing much wild, so firstly I base my opinion solely on the low (means 15+) rank experience and on my general hearthstone knowledge and secondly, I do not really know whether the combo is actually OP or needs to be OP to compete with the rest of the viable wild decks. But that nerf does not seem over the top and also not completely crippling the deck.
Thank you for your input. I think if you spent some more time in Wild you'd see the issue. The lack of interactivity is reminiscent of Freeze Mage in its prime.
Actually, I wouldn't think so.Why do you (honest question)?
In my opinion it is just one more card you need to havbe in hand ( Innervate ) or you need to use Emperor Thaurissan. Or Dreampetal Florist that hits Aviana . All that seems fair for OTK decks, in particular since Druid has a lot of survivability.
Kun, Aviana, and Juicy Psychmelon are all balanced in a vacuum. The problems arise when you combine them, which makes it difficult to determine what should be nerfed.
It is not difficult to determine what should be nerfed. Aviana Kun has been a combination in this game for almost two years and it was never a problem.
The moment they introduce a Tutor Effect called Juicy Psychmelon, which on it's own is able to draw out almost every one of your combo pieces in the deck and remove any kind of problems that the previous iterations on Aviana Kun decks use to have, like Hand management, requirement to use non specific card draw which made it almost always necessary to stall the game until the end of the deck, and so on, you create a real big problem.
Honestly, it is extremely concerning to me that people are so oblivious to this simple aspect that is causing the problems in Wild.
And by people I don't mean Blizzard, I mean the community, which keep asking for something like Aviana, which was never a problem, to be changed and completely invalidated a lot of possible Combo decks, just because they both dislike the decks existence, but also want to take advantage of the problems Psychmelon is causing to get rid of entire decks for their satisfaction.
Thankfully, Wild is not that popular, and I'm very certain Blizzard will be extremely careful when making changes there, so I am confident they will eventually look at Psychmelon and change it without ruining a lot of perfectly balanced Combo decks that won't be able to use it after nerf, much like they existed and were perfectly fine before the existence of this card.
I do agree that Psychmelon should be nerfed. However, I don't agree with the logic of "if it was balanced before, it's balanced now." If Aviana or Kun didn't exist, obviously nowhere near as many people would be complaining about melon.
Look at Shadowreaper Anduin and Raza the Chained, a similar situation. Raza was balanced without Anduin. Anduin is balanced without original Raza. Whether or not the choice to nerf Raza instead of Anduin was correct is up for debate, but we can all agree that something had to change. They couldn't coexist.
Actually, I wouldn't think so.Why do you (honest question)?
In my opinion it is just one more card you need to havbe in hand ( Innervate ) or you need to use Emperor Thaurissan. Or Dreampetal Florist that hits Aviana . All that seems fair for OTK decks, in particular since Druid has a lot of survivability.
You say “one more card” as if it is nothing. Thats one more card that has to be collected for the combo. That’s one more card that can be milled (Gnomefratu, Coldlight Oracle, Natutalize, ...). That’s one more card that sits in the Druid’s hand doing nothing other than clogging it up. And it means one LESS card both in the deck and the hand that does something useful before the combo.
Aviana is fine. She was never a problem before in the Wild or in Standard. If anything is to be changed, it is Psychmelon.
Not that it will change anything. Wild is an inherently broken format.
Better kill one single card than the entire format.
The format is crap to begin with. Only gonna get worse over time.
The “Wild specialists” cried about Naga Sea Witch over and over. “Just fix that and everything will be OK”. Sure. Till the next broken deck comes along.
Better kill one single card than the entire format.
The format is crap to begin with. Only gonna get worse over time.
The “Wild specialists” cried about Naga Sea Witch over and over. “Just fix that and everything will be OK”. Sure. Till the next broken deck comes along.
Wild have many very strong decks without any problem:
Reno, jades, even shaman, odd rogue, tempo mage, exodia/freeze mage, big priest, deathrattle hunter, control warrior, etc...
It is hard to break a format like that, have to be something insanely OP.
A full board of giants for 5 manas or a OTK deck outracing aggro decks are examples and when happens need to be fixed.
I don't want and believe the majority of the players agree with me a 9 or 10 cards making a 2.000 cards collection useless because don't have competition.
Better kill one single card than the entire format.
The format is crap to begin with. Only gonna get worse over time.
The “Wild specialists” cried about Naga Sea Witch over and over. “Just fix that and everything will be OK”. Sure. Till the next broken deck comes along.
Wild have many very strong decks without any problem:
Reno, jades, even shaman, odd rogue, tempo mage, exodia/freeze mage, big priest, deathrattle hunter, control warrior, etc...
It is hard to break a format like that, have to be something insanely OP.
A full board of giants for 5 manas or a OTK deck outracing aggro decks are examples and when happens need to be fixed.
I don't want and believe the majority of the players agree with me a 9 or 10 cards making a 2.000 cards collection useless because don't have competition.
Many of the decks you mention have win rates higher than the Druid decks that utilize JP. This is the problem with Wild. The disparity between the best decks and the rest is too great. You are either playing something broken, or you are playing trash. Wild hinders deck diversity.
Odd Rogue has a 57% win rate according to the latest VS report. How is that not broken? This would never be allowed in Standard. But I can’t recall a single Wild Meta that didn’t have a 55+% win rate Deck.
Better kill one single card than the entire format.
The format is crap to begin with. Only gonna get worse over time.
The “Wild specialists” cried about Naga Sea Witch over and over. “Just fix that and everything will be OK”. Sure. Till the next broken deck comes along.
Yeah, because standard players are soooo different
Kun, Aviana, and Juicy Psychmelon are all balanced in a vacuum. The problems arise when you combine them, which makes it difficult to determine what should be nerfed.
It is not difficult to determine what should be nerfed. Aviana Kun has been a combination in this game for almost two years and it was never a problem.
The moment they introduce a Tutor Effect called Juicy Psychmelon, which on it's own is able to draw out almost every one of your combo pieces in the deck and remove any kind of problems that the previous iterations on Aviana Kun decks use to have, like Hand management, requirement to use non specific card draw which made it almost always necessary to stall the game until the end of the deck, and so on, you create a real big problem.
Honestly, it is extremely concerning to me that people are so oblivious to this simple aspect that is causing the problems in Wild.
And by people I don't mean Blizzard, I mean the community, which keep asking for something like Aviana, which was never a problem, to be changed and completely invalidated a lot of possible Combo decks, just because they both dislike the decks existence, but also want to take advantage of the problems Psychmelon is causing to get rid of entire decks for their satisfaction.
Thankfully, Wild is not that popular, and I'm very certain Blizzard will be extremely careful when making changes there, so I am confident they will eventually look at Psychmelon and change it without ruining a lot of perfectly balanced Combo decks that won't be able to use it after nerf, much like they existed and were perfectly fine before the existence of this card.
Yeah this nerf seems good. Also nerf that melon to at least 7 mana? why the hell is costs that low? any disadvantage? nope.
problem is druid can now;
draw perfectly.
ramp fast. usually opponent is at 6 mana lol when droood is 10.
has answers to everything. you draw combo? then use other cards to armor up!
mulch, naturalize, spellstone, swipe easily controls the board. Also Poison seeds. lol.
opponent gone wide? spreading plague!
opponent doesnt go wide? but tall? well there arent any decks that can pressure opponent and go tall effectively. but even then there are naturalize, spellstone, swipe, wrath, mulch. And again HAVING FUCK TON OF ARMOR you can take some hits no problem.
But Yellow! How they can manage to do this everytime? Well, you know they can draw insane amounts of cards, right? Yeah..
Personally I would hit Kun - ability to generate 10 mana is the opener of stupid combos, having Aviana with discounts/innervates only still leaves some combo potential, but not as reliable and stupid as it is. Maybe his "refresh mana crystals" should be "refund this minions cost"? Not sure about wording but that's my idea.
Oh and spellstone should be 2/3/4 dmg instead of 2/4/6, killing 6 drops for 1 mana is disgusting.
It is my opinion that bumping Aviana's cost to 10 would solve a lot of the problems in Wild.
At ten mana, Aviana/Kun becomes a 3 card combo instead of 2. Druids would also need to free up a slot (or two) for Innervate.
Juicy Psychmelon would no longer guarantee the combo is pulled. It would be Aviana OR Kun instead of both.
I'd like to hear others' thoughts on the matter.
Will help a lot for sure, OTK combo decks never was a problem in Wild, be able to OTK your opponent in freaking turn 6 outracing an aggro deck is the broken element that ruined all.
Yes please. Personally, I would prefer to see a harsher nerf to her, completely disabling the Kun combo but I feel like this is the next best thing.
Kun, Aviana, and Juicy Psychmelon are all balanced in a vacuum. The problems arise when you combine them, which makes it difficult to determine what should be nerfed.
Might be a good idea. This druid deck will be slower for sure. Also druids might wanna use Twig of the World Tree instead of Kun.
I attempted to corroborate a nerf which would fix the issue as a whole without leaving any cards unplayable.
Which, of course, can be countered.
I just wanted to say "it is completely pointless" since aviana kun is never a 2-card combo, but always a 4 or more card combo. One innervate wont matter much. BUT: You're right. The draw effect of the psychmelon gets nerfed simultaneously. And that will likely weaken the deck overall.
Disclaimer: I am presently not playing much wild, so firstly I base my opinion solely on the low (means 15+) rank experience and on my general hearthstone knowledge and secondly, I do not really know whether the combo is actually OP or needs to be OP to compete with the rest of the viable wild decks. But that nerf does not seem over the top and also not completely crippling the deck.
Thank you for your input. I think if you spent some more time in Wild you'd see the issue. The lack of interactivity is reminiscent of Freeze Mage in its prime.
Horrid idea. Kills the card.
Actually, I wouldn't think so.Why do you (honest question)?
In my opinion it is just one more card you need to havbe in hand ( Innervate ) or you need to use Emperor Thaurissan. Or Dreampetal Florist that hits Aviana . All that seems fair for OTK decks, in particular since Druid has a lot of survivability.
Better kill one single card than the entire format.
I do agree that Psychmelon should be nerfed. However, I don't agree with the logic of "if it was balanced before, it's balanced now." If Aviana or Kun didn't exist, obviously nowhere near as many people would be complaining about melon.
Look at Shadowreaper Anduin and Raza the Chained, a similar situation. Raza was balanced without Anduin. Anduin is balanced without original Raza. Whether or not the choice to nerf Raza instead of Anduin was correct is up for debate, but we can all agree that something had to change. They couldn't coexist.
You say “one more card” as if it is nothing. Thats one more card that has to be collected for the combo. That’s one more card that can be milled (Gnomefratu, Coldlight Oracle, Natutalize, ...). That’s one more card that sits in the Druid’s hand doing nothing other than clogging it up. And it means one LESS card both in the deck and the hand that does something useful before the combo.
Aviana is fine. She was never a problem before in the Wild or in Standard. If anything is to be changed, it is Psychmelon.
Not that it will change anything. Wild is an inherently broken format.
The format is crap to begin with. Only gonna get worse over time.
The “Wild specialists” cried about Naga Sea Witch over and over. “Just fix that and everything will be OK”. Sure. Till the next broken deck comes along.
Wild have many very strong decks without any problem:
Reno, jades, even shaman, odd rogue, tempo mage, exodia/freeze mage, big priest, deathrattle hunter, control warrior, etc...
It is hard to break a format like that, have to be something insanely OP.
A full board of giants for 5 manas or a OTK deck outracing aggro decks are examples and when happens need to be fixed.
I don't want and believe the majority of the players agree with me a 9 or 10 cards making a 2.000 cards collection useless because don't have competition.
Many of the decks you mention have win rates higher than the Druid decks that utilize JP. This is the problem with Wild. The disparity between the best decks and the rest is too great. You are either playing something broken, or you are playing trash. Wild hinders deck diversity.
Odd Rogue has a 57% win rate according to the latest VS report. How is that not broken? This would never be allowed in Standard. But I can’t recall a single Wild Meta that didn’t have a 55+% win rate Deck.
Yeah, because standard players are soooo different
This ^
Always expect the unexpectable!
Yeah this nerf seems good. Also nerf that melon to at least 7 mana? why the hell is costs that low? any disadvantage? nope.
problem is druid can now;
draw perfectly.
ramp fast. usually opponent is at 6 mana lol when droood is 10.
has answers to everything. you draw combo? then use other cards to armor up!
mulch, naturalize, spellstone, swipe easily controls the board. Also Poison seeds. lol.
opponent gone wide? spreading plague!
opponent doesnt go wide? but tall? well there arent any decks that can pressure opponent and go tall effectively. but even then there are naturalize, spellstone, swipe, wrath, mulch. And again HAVING FUCK TON OF ARMOR you can take some hits no problem.
But Yellow! How they can manage to do this everytime? Well, you know they can draw insane amounts of cards, right? Yeah..
Even dirty rat doesnt really work. :/
Personally I would hit Kun - ability to generate 10 mana is the opener of stupid combos, having Aviana with discounts/innervates only still leaves some combo potential, but not as reliable and stupid as it is. Maybe his "refresh mana crystals" should be "refund this minions cost"? Not sure about wording but that's my idea.
Oh and spellstone should be 2/3/4 dmg instead of 2/4/6, killing 6 drops for 1 mana is disgusting.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game