Not sure if this has been tried before, my search for "nerf" yielded an incredible number of threads I simply could not go through. Anyway, instead of the innumerable, daily "X card needs a nerf" threads, which quite often are born of salt/a bad matchup/people only adopting one playstyle and hating on every other playstyle, I thought we could have a central repository for all discussions around proposed/wanted card nerfs. Hopefully, this will stop the proliferation of daily IDENTICAL threads and make it easier for the mods.
Posts don't have to have a format, but ideally, state the following and throw it out there for debate:
1- Card you think should be nerfed (or boosted) 2 - Pragmatically, why you think the card should be nerfed 3 - What amendment to the card should be made 4 - Provide any supporting evidence for your position (be it HSreplay, VS charts, etc)
I expect a lot of people to have differing opinions, so please always try to use the quote function when replying to a discussion, otherwise, there will be crossed wires with different discussions going on about different cards. Standard and Wild are, obviously, both to be taken into consideration in the debate.
Be civil, don't call each other hoofwanking thundercunts, and keep the real salt in the salt thread. Over to you, folks!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
Just to start, I wanted to see what others think about the Rogue quest;
I don't really like the design of it, instant win against some decks. But I don't know if the quest is exactly the problem, it may be enabling the combo to be stronger but cards like Sonya, Valeera and Zola seem to be the biggest agressors of the deck.
Just to start, I wanted to see what others think about the Rogue quest;
I don't really like the design of it, instant win against some decks. But I don't know if the quest is exactly the problem, it may be enabling the combo to be stronger but cards like Sonya, Valeera and Zola seem to be the biggest agressors of the deck.
I see a lot of calls for The Caverns Below to be nerfed, the problem is, it would be the 3rd time in a row, and it's still finding a way to help rogue be at the top of the meta. I struggle to see how that card could indeed directly be nerfed any further; the stats gain isn't hugely overpowered anymore, and the number of minions you need to play with the same name requires a decent draw, survival, and quite a decent skill level to pull off.
Equally, if Sonya Shadowdancer is nerfed, how would she be nerfed? Will mana cost really be enough?
Is this build alone enough reason to nerf a DK, that, this archetype aside, is rather weak in comparison to the mage or Warlock one? It's a toughie!
Personally, I don't think the dominance of the build will last, just like the last time round. It wasn't the nerf that killed it, it was the adapting and more aggressive meta, which killed the player before they could pull off the combo. GI seems to be the main culprit, and personally I still don't think it deserves a nerf, especially with mana cost. It'll just end up boosting even decks too.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
Just to start, I wanted to see what others think about the Rogue quest;
I don't really like the design of it, instant win against some decks. But I don't know if the quest is exactly the problem, it may be enabling the combo to be stronger but cards like Sonya, Valeera and Zola seem to be the biggest agressors of the deck.
I see a lot of calls for The Caverns Below to be nerfed, the problem is, it would be the 3rd time in a row, and it's still finding a way to help rogue be at the top of the meta. I struggle to see how that card could indeed directly be nerfed any further; the stats gain isn't hugely overpowered anymore, and the number of minions you need to play with the same name requires a decent draw, survival, and quite a decent skill level to pull off.
Equally, if Sonya Shadowdancer is nerfed, how would she be nerfed? Will mana cost really be enough?
Is this build alone enough reason to nerf a DK, that, this archetype aside, is rather weak in comparison to the mage or Warlock one? It's a toughie!
Personally, I don't think the dominance of the build will last, just like the last time round. It wasn't the nerf that killed it, it was the adapting and more aggressive meta, which killed the player before they could pull off the combo. GI seems to be the main culprit, and personally I still don't think it deserves a nerf, especially with mana cost. It'll just end up boosting even decks too.
This is my main problem with the quest's design. Making the buff 3/3 makes it almost unplayable, changing the requirement to be 6 minions doesn't change anything (It just makes the vs. Aggro matchup even harder for quest rogue).
I have tinkered with a Nerf to Sonya but I don't know if it would be a good one, changing the minion to be a 2 mana 2/2. It looses flavor with the other card that makes 1 mana 1/1 copies of something but it could be a good nerf.
Valeera IMHO is not deserving of a nerf, the whole thing with it is the Infinite Combo with Zola and that can't be nerfed (Only changed and that change wouldn't be good IMO)
*The whole design with The Caverns Bellow is a mess that shouldn't be in the game.*
This is the only nerf I need. This thread nerfs the hassle many of us go through with having to see constant nerf threads pop up. It's also an indirect buff to Hearthpwn.com, which is interesting to think about.
The meta should feel much nicer to play within. Nice job, Blizzard.
This is the only nerf I need. This thread nerfs the hassle many of us go through with having to see constant nerf threads pop up. It's also an indirect buff to Hearthpwn.com, which is interesting to think about.
The meta should feel much nicer to play within. Nice job, Blizzard.
Just to start, I wanted to see what others think about the Rogue quest;
I don't really like the design of it, instant win against some decks. But I don't know if the quest is exactly the problem, it may be enabling the combo to be stronger but cards like Sonya, Valeera and Zola seem to be the biggest agressors of the deck.
I see a lot of calls for The Caverns Below to be nerfed, the problem is, it would be the 3rd time in a row, and it's still finding a way to help rogue be at the top of the meta. I struggle to see how that card could indeed directly be nerfed any further; the stats gain isn't hugely overpowered anymore, and the number of minions you need to play with the same name requires a decent draw, survival, and quite a decent skill level to pull off.
Equally, if Sonya Shadowdancer is nerfed, how would she be nerfed? Will mana cost really be enough?
Is this build alone enough reason to nerf a DK, that, this archetype aside, is rather weak in comparison to the mage or Warlock one? It's a toughie!
Personally, I don't think the dominance of the build will last, just like the last time round. It wasn't the nerf that killed it, it was the adapting and more aggressive meta, which killed the player before they could pull off the combo. GI seems to be the main culprit, and personally I still don't think it deserves a nerf, especially with mana cost. It'll just end up boosting even decks too.
This is my main problem with the quest's design. Making the buff 3/3 makes it almost unplayable, changing the requirement to be 6 minions doesn't change anything (It just makes the vs. Aggro matchup even harder for quest rogue).
I have tinkered with a Nerf to Sonya but I don't know if it would be a good one, changing the minion to be a 2 mana 2/2. It looses flavor with the other card that makes 1 mana 1/1 copies of something but it could be a good nerf.
Yep, 3/3 just makes it a dead card. Expand on the Sonya nerf for a sec? What other card are you talking about? Wouldn't making it a 2-cost be even worse, or have I missed something?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
The most obvious choice for a nerf at the moment is Sonya Shadowdancer, in my opinion. I wouldn't touch the mana cast, though. I would change the text to, "After a friendly minion dies, at the end of the turn add a 1/1 copy to your hand. It costs (1)."
This is the only nerf I need. This thread nerfs the hassle many of us go through with having to see constant nerf threads pop up. It's also an indirect buff to Hearthpwn.com, which is interesting to think about.
The meta should feel much nicer to play within. Nice job, Blizzard.
Just to start, I wanted to see what others think about the Rogue quest;
I don't really like the design of it, instant win against some decks. But I don't know if the quest is exactly the problem, it may be enabling the combo to be stronger but cards like Sonya, Valeera and Zola seem to be the biggest agressors of the deck.
I see a lot of calls for The Caverns Below to be nerfed, the problem is, it would be the 3rd time in a row, and it's still finding a way to help rogue be at the top of the meta. I struggle to see how that card could indeed directly be nerfed any further; the stats gain isn't hugely overpowered anymore, and the number of minions you need to play with the same name requires a decent draw, survival, and quite a decent skill level to pull off.
Equally, if Sonya Shadowdancer is nerfed, how would she be nerfed? Will mana cost really be enough?
Is this build alone enough reason to nerf a DK, that, this archetype aside, is rather weak in comparison to the mage or Warlock one? It's a toughie!
Personally, I don't think the dominance of the build will last, just like the last time round. It wasn't the nerf that killed it, it was the adapting and more aggressive meta, which killed the player before they could pull off the combo. GI seems to be the main culprit, and personally I still don't think it deserves a nerf, especially with mana cost. It'll just end up boosting even decks too.
This is my main problem with the quest's design. Making the buff 3/3 makes it almost unplayable, changing the requirement to be 6 minions doesn't change anything (It just makes the vs. Aggro matchup even harder for quest rogue).
I have tinkered with a Nerf to Sonya but I don't know if it would be a good one, changing the minion to be a 2 mana 2/2. It looses flavor with the other card that makes 1 mana 1/1 copies of something but it could be a good nerf.
Yep, 3/3 just makes it a dead card. Expand on the Sonya nerf for a sec? What other card are you talking about? Wouldn't making it a 2-cost be even worse, or have I missed something?
I was talking about making the Sonya Copy a 2 mana 2/2 making it harder to do 6 Stonetusk Boar in one turn. Sonya's effect is like Shadowcaster. So it would lose the flavor, I don't know if this is the right way to go to be honest.
The most obvious choice for a nerf at the moment is Sonya Shadowdancer, in my opinion. I wouldn't touch the mana cast, though. I would change the text to, "After a friendly minion dies, at the end of the turn add a 1/1 copy to your hand. It costs (1)."
Now THAT's a good shout. I think that might work if she had her health boosted a little to survive immediate removal and have the chance of surviving a turn. Very decent nerf idea.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
This is the only nerf I need. This thread nerfs the hassle many of us go through with having to see constant nerf threads pop up. It's also an indirect buff to Hearthpwn.com, which is interesting to think about.
The meta should feel much nicer to play within. Nice job, Blizzard.
Just to start, I wanted to see what others think about the Rogue quest;
I don't really like the design of it, instant win against some decks. But I don't know if the quest is exactly the problem, it may be enabling the combo to be stronger but cards like Sonya, Valeera and Zola seem to be the biggest agressors of the deck.
I see a lot of calls for The Caverns Below to be nerfed, the problem is, it would be the 3rd time in a row, and it's still finding a way to help rogue be at the top of the meta. I struggle to see how that card could indeed directly be nerfed any further; the stats gain isn't hugely overpowered anymore, and the number of minions you need to play with the same name requires a decent draw, survival, and quite a decent skill level to pull off.
Equally, if Sonya Shadowdancer is nerfed, how would she be nerfed? Will mana cost really be enough?
Is this build alone enough reason to nerf a DK, that, this archetype aside, is rather weak in comparison to the mage or Warlock one? It's a toughie!
Personally, I don't think the dominance of the build will last, just like the last time round. It wasn't the nerf that killed it, it was the adapting and more aggressive meta, which killed the player before they could pull off the combo. GI seems to be the main culprit, and personally I still don't think it deserves a nerf, especially with mana cost. It'll just end up boosting even decks too.
This is my main problem with the quest's design. Making the buff 3/3 makes it almost unplayable, changing the requirement to be 6 minions doesn't change anything (It just makes the vs. Aggro matchup even harder for quest rogue).
I have tinkered with a Nerf to Sonya but I don't know if it would be a good one, changing the minion to be a 2 mana 2/2. It looses flavor with the other card that makes 1 mana 1/1 copies of something but it could be a good nerf.
Yep, 3/3 just makes it a dead card. Expand on the Sonya nerf for a sec? What other card are you talking about? Wouldn't making it a 2-cost be even worse, or have I missed something?
you know, with all the problems this card has caused, and the amount of nerfing it has gone through, and still could use, maybe it should be a dead card nerfed into the ground.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
you know, with all the problems this card has caused, and the amount of nerfing it has gone through, and still could use, maybe it should be a dead card nerfed into the ground.
Is it really such a problem though? It's not even THAt competitive both on all rank and Legend (see attached). Surely it should be dominant in the meta to actually be considered a problem?
ATTACHMENTS
Quest Rogue All Ranks
Quest Rogue Legend
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
Is it really such a problem though? It's not even THAt competitive both on all rank and Legend (see attached). Surely it should be dominant in the meta to actually be considered a problem?
I think looking at this type of data here can give us a better view:
Imo the best way to nerf quest rogue is to make the quest more of a buff instead of an aura. This would limit how much power quest rogue could bring since buffs wouldn't be copied by cards like zola, sonya, or bounce effects. Namely I would make it say something along the lines of "Give all your minions on the battlefield, in your hand, and in your deck +4/+4". The deck would still have the power of playing cheap giant minions but with that change alot of what makes quest rogue unfair isn't there anymore since you can't bounce the minions anymore (at least if you want them to be big).
On a side note even though quest rogue isn't top tier it's still a problem deck due to how polarized the deck is in its matchups. A deck shouldn't have 20/80 and 80/20 matchups because it turns hearthstone games into a coin flip because the deck either loses or wins depending on what it queue'd into and not based on more skill testing factors. In fact several decks are like this currently with the other big culprit being odd warrior who also is very polarized in it's matchup spread.
I'd hate to see a cool card like Sonya Shadowdancer get nerfed over that dumb quest. All of the complaints about her seem to involve bouncing those 1/1 Stonetusk Boars, and if that's the case, then change the boar or the quest. Sonya herself is a fun card, offering a lot of entertaining options for players, and it seems to me that the game needs MORE of that, not less.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Hi dear community,
Not sure if this has been tried before, my search for "nerf" yielded an incredible number of threads I simply could not go through. Anyway, instead of the innumerable, daily "X card needs a nerf" threads, which quite often are born of salt/a bad matchup/people only adopting one playstyle and hating on every other playstyle, I thought we could have a central repository for all discussions around proposed/wanted card nerfs. Hopefully, this will stop the proliferation of daily IDENTICAL threads and make it easier for the mods.
Posts don't have to have a format, but ideally, state the following and throw it out there for debate:
1- Card you think should be nerfed (or boosted)
2 - Pragmatically, why you think the card should be nerfed
3 - What amendment to the card should be made
4 - Provide any supporting evidence for your position (be it HSreplay, VS charts, etc)
I expect a lot of people to have differing opinions, so please always try to use the quote function when replying to a discussion, otherwise, there will be crossed wires with different discussions going on about different cards. Standard and Wild are, obviously, both to be taken into consideration in the debate.
Be civil, don't call each other hoofwanking thundercunts, and keep the real salt in the salt thread. Over to you, folks!
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
Just to start, I wanted to see what others think about the Rogue quest;
I don't really like the design of it, instant win against some decks. But I don't know if the quest is exactly the problem, it may be enabling the combo to be stronger but cards like Sonya, Valeera and Zola seem to be the biggest agressors of the deck.
I see a lot of calls for The Caverns Below to be nerfed, the problem is, it would be the 3rd time in a row, and it's still finding a way to help rogue be at the top of the meta. I struggle to see how that card could indeed directly be nerfed any further; the stats gain isn't hugely overpowered anymore, and the number of minions you need to play with the same name requires a decent draw, survival, and quite a decent skill level to pull off.
Equally, if Sonya Shadowdancer is nerfed, how would she be nerfed? Will mana cost really be enough?
Is this build alone enough reason to nerf a DK, that, this archetype aside, is rather weak in comparison to the mage or Warlock one? It's a toughie!
Personally, I don't think the dominance of the build will last, just like the last time round. It wasn't the nerf that killed it, it was the adapting and more aggressive meta, which killed the player before they could pull off the combo. GI seems to be the main culprit, and personally I still don't think it deserves a nerf, especially with mana cost. It'll just end up boosting even decks too.
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
Please nerf spreading plague to the ground. One of the reason why druid can stall the game. You can't build up a big board because "ME PLAGUE ME WIN"
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken..
This is my main problem with the quest's design. Making the buff 3/3 makes it almost unplayable, changing the requirement to be 6 minions doesn't change anything (It just makes the vs. Aggro matchup even harder for quest rogue).
I have tinkered with a Nerf to Sonya but I don't know if it would be a good one, changing the minion to be a 2 mana 2/2. It looses flavor with the other card that makes 1 mana 1/1 copies of something but it could be a good nerf.
Valeera IMHO is not deserving of a nerf, the whole thing with it is the Infinite Combo with Zola and that can't be nerfed (Only changed and that change wouldn't be good IMO)
*The whole design with The Caverns Bellow is a mess that shouldn't be in the game.*
This is the only nerf I need. This thread nerfs the hassle many of us go through with having to see constant nerf threads pop up. It's also an indirect buff to Hearthpwn.com, which is interesting to think about.
The meta should feel much nicer to play within. Nice job, Blizzard.
Dust refund when?
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
if druid lost spreading plague control druid would leave the meta.
if control druid leaves the meta then all druid will leave as token druid does not work.
if druid leaves the meta then aggro will be everywhere.
if aggro runs everywhere we will ask for more tools to help control decks beat aggro.
if we get control tools to beat aggro then control cancer is everywhere.
then we go back to the start.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
XD love it
C'mon son, make an effort! Also, just don't build up a wide board. It's never a good idea before board-clear/taunt spam turns.
Yep, 3/3 just makes it a dead card. Expand on the Sonya nerf for a sec? What other card are you talking about? Wouldn't making it a 2-cost be even worse, or have I missed something?
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
6 mana giggling inventor... maybe not so op but I dont like when a card and its counters are used in every deck. Would be okay if it was a class card
The most obvious choice for a nerf at the moment is Sonya Shadowdancer, in my opinion.
I wouldn't touch the mana cast, though. I would change the text to, "After a friendly minion dies, at the end of the turn add a 1/1 copy to your hand. It costs (1)."
I was talking about making the Sonya Copy a 2 mana 2/2 making it harder to do 6 Stonetusk Boar in one turn. Sonya's effect is like Shadowcaster. So it would lose the flavor, I don't know if this is the right way to go to be honest.
Now THAT's a good shout. I think that might work if she had her health boosted a little to survive immediate removal and have the chance of surviving a turn. Very decent nerf idea.
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
you know, with all the problems this card has caused, and the amount of nerfing it has gone through, and still could use, maybe it should be a dead card nerfed into the ground.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
ok, i know he said to quote whoever you are replying to, but we should really delete some of the post that's irreverent to what we want to say.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
You can remove the 'Quote every message' as an option, if that's what you're talking about.
Is it really such a problem though? It's not even THAt competitive both on all rank and Legend (see attached). Surely it should be dominant in the meta to actually be considered a problem?
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
I think looking at this type of data here can give us a better view:
https://hsreplay.net/decks/7Qpb6Y8FmV0J5LEo3FuB1b/ you can find it here ^^
Dear OP, I just have one question. What is a hoofwanking thundercunt and how do I get one in my bedroom?
Imo the best way to nerf quest rogue is to make the quest more of a buff instead of an aura. This would limit how much power quest rogue could bring since buffs wouldn't be copied by cards like zola, sonya, or bounce effects. Namely I would make it say something along the lines of "Give all your minions on the battlefield, in your hand, and in your deck +4/+4". The deck would still have the power of playing cheap giant minions but with that change alot of what makes quest rogue unfair isn't there anymore since you can't bounce the minions anymore (at least if you want them to be big).
On a side note even though quest rogue isn't top tier it's still a problem deck due to how polarized the deck is in its matchups. A deck shouldn't have 20/80 and 80/20 matchups because it turns hearthstone games into a coin flip because the deck either loses or wins depending on what it queue'd into and not based on more skill testing factors. In fact several decks are like this currently with the other big culprit being odd warrior who also is very polarized in it's matchup spread.
I'd hate to see a cool card like Sonya Shadowdancer get nerfed over that dumb quest. All of the complaints about her seem to involve bouncing those 1/1 Stonetusk Boars, and if that's the case, then change the boar or the quest. Sonya herself is a fun card, offering a lot of entertaining options for players, and it seems to me that the game needs MORE of that, not less.