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On the other hand, when you play Miracle and you successfully set your Auctioneer you might draw so many cards that: 1st you start discarding cards because your hand is full. 2nd you mill your deck and suffer from Fatigue (and that goes pretty fast) so it's not only to your advantage (as a lv60 Rogue I can say that 90% of the time it's a Win, but it's not automatic win)
So yes sure let's start nerfing all the goods cards (or more precisely: cards that we don't use in our favorite deck and makes us loose). The game will become terribly boring, and only bots will play it. I love this game as I used to love MTG in my young days, I accept to spent money for it, I also accept to loose.
Balance/nerf doomguard and Flare first, then see if the nerf to auctioneer is needed, imho it isn't since that's the only card that holds together an otherwise horrible class, seriosuly if rogue has to pay 2 for shiv when it used to cost 1 why does hunter get to pay 1 for flare which is a spell that does far more than shiv will ever do,
At first glance, that sounds ridiculous. But in reality, it would have drawing power equal to something like Divine Favor or even Arcane Intellect. I think that would be a good, balanced card. Another thing awesome about it, is it would essentially be most effective at the end of a turn, when all mana is expended. Could be nice to see something like this happen.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
i've said in other threads before before but i always felt gadgetzan's effect should only let you draw at the end of your turn. so instead of playing a spell, draw, and that potentially being a spell that you can use for defensive purposes, instead have the player be forced to use what they have and draw at the end of the turn so they are forced to play smarter and more conservative.
if it does get the nerf to heal instead, i'd love to see what kind of decks gadgetzan would help create or help balance out. a control rogue with a nice health regen combo would be pretty interesting to see since rogue has decent control potential. Also, I agree with gloomisawesome, a combo card that lets you draw for each card played would be interesting. maybe have it be a 5 cost like gadgetzan so that when you do play it, you aren't getting a super large amount out of it, but its still enough to make it worth playing.
I started playing Rogue this month and my experience is that it is terrible against aggro and very good against control. The reason it is good against control is the Auctioneer and the card draw. If you take it away it will be still terrible against aggro and will be weak against control as well. I believe it is equal to killing the class. If the new expansion brings more life to the Rogue class you can change Auctioneer, but doing it today would be stupid. Also I played 35 games total in ranked this season and I did not meet a single Rogue, this should tell you something about the class. I met with every other class, even multiple paladins and mages.
Completely agree. Miracle is so much harder to pull off these days, it really doesn't need a nerf. I have only played Ramp druid this season and I havn't lost to a miracle yet, so you don't need a super aggro deck to beat it.
In addition, I also really like the mechanic of Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
Don't you think Leeroy nerf is more than enough?
I'm essentially playing Miracle (lv 60, >250 victory in ranked) but I got better success rate with other decks, so Auctioneer is not OP, nor an automatic win.
BTW most of my games are against zoo. I see very few Rogue at all, please leave my favorite class alive.
Noone is questioning that the best draw mechanic in the game is the miracle. What people want to point out that laddering with Rogue is very very difficult, it is underrepresented in the meta. Why do anyone want to nerf a deck which is not popular, nor OP? Yes, it is very strong in a certain situation, but it is not what it was before when there was no Loatheb, no Leeroy nerf, almost no deathrattles, etc
Also the Hunter nerf was stupid, they should not have touched the Buzzard, they should have changed Unleash instead. That was and still is my opinion. They turned the hunter into this aggro cancer which is not fun to play and still very strong. But when they nerfed the hunter, it was at least popular and strong, which you cannot say about rogue at the moment.
We do not know what the expansion will bring, it might change things, but noone knows about it anything yet, so why do we even discuss it?
The rumored auctioneer change, if true, would almost certainly be because some new spells in the expansion would be utterly broken with him. Which would explain why such changes were found when testing the expansion. I doubt it has much to do with the current power of miracle rogue, although it may be a sign that drawing your deck in an explosive spell combo, balanced or not, is not an archetype Blizzard really cares to support, any more than freeze mage is.
You cannot look at only card draw, you need to look at the whole deck. Hunter was the strongest and most popular deck and this is why it got nerfed, not because it had good card draw. Rogue is not popular and nor OP.
Technically it's not drawing 10 cards alone, since you're playing cards to draw cards. Also, if you fill your deck with enough trash to draw 10 cards off Gadgetzan Auctioneer in one turn, be my guest and draw those cards. Meanwhile I'll happily take free wins against a deck that's built around trash cycling through itself.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer is fine, there's a reason why exactly one class can make it worthwhile.
To be honnest I don't understand the Starving Buzzard nerf, It never bothered me, just Shiv it and problem solved, I have more issue with aggro deck in general: IMO they're stupid as hell (need little reflexion only)
For Leeroy: I know it's used by other class and I'm fine with it, the nerf only affect Miracle, because of the Shadowstep thing (and for the record I never had the "chance" to throw the Leeroy+2x shadowstep + 2x Cold blood)
How successfull are you with Malygos? I tried it few times and never worked for me, I prefer the Token version (Violet teacher) + Arcane golem to replace Leeroy
This is what that guy meant when said it limits new card design. The whole concept of the the class revolves around combo so rogue needs low cost spells/minions to function as combo activators. The problem is the interaction between low cost spells and Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
Right now Gadgetzan Auctioneer's text reads something like this: Add "draw a card" to all your already amazingly cost efficient low cost spells.
So, from my point of view, if Blizzard doesn't change Gadgetzan Auctioneer all next cheap rogue spells will have to be utter garbage to compensate the free "draw a card" that Gadgetzan Auctioneer may provide.
Either that, or they start using minions as rogue's main combo activators, but filling your deck with low cost minions without enough card draw to support would be pointless.
I am not saying the card is OP, I just think no card should cause this much trouble in balancing a whole class.
The difference between gimmick and sinergy is only consistency. Mrglglrglglglglglglgl!!!
The problem is, not only are many low cost spells already pretty bad, you generally want to actually play the few that aren't, so when you get to play Gadgetzan, you already played most of the cards away that combo with it. Unless, of course, these cards have card draw themselves. However, if that's the case, you're just adding even more card draw to a deck that doesn't really need it.
As someone said - you're simply cycling through trash without actually doing anything.
Gadgetzan is the typical example of a card that seems strong at first glance, but needs so specific circumstances that it very rarely is of any use at all. I tried to make him work with a Mages, Druids, Shamans, but he is always outperformed by Azure Drake since it's just so much more solid.
The only deck that could make this card useful was Miracle rogue, and even there it wasn't due to gadgetzan itself, it was because Leeroy + 2x Shadowstep + 2x Cold Blood being really efficient finishers, on top of a few strong combo cards, like SI:Agent, so you didn't mind that the rest of the deck was mostly trash. But Leeroy isn't as strong anymore, and Gadgetzan in general got a decent counter in Loatheb, so I don't think he should be nerfed.
If anything, they should make a few more decent low cost spells to make him viable again, coupled with a few other ways to counter him(like making mill more viable), so that we see more different deck archetypes than aggro, midrange, control and more aggro.
I strongly disagree with that. Massive card cycling is OP even if what you're cycling is "trash". Just ponder on the fact that most of those "trash" cards would be considered great cards if you added "draw a card" to their text.
Plus, you still are digging ultra fast trhough your deck to collect the pieces you need for an OTK. Which, in my opinion (and I think you agree), was/is the strongest part of the miracle rogue deck. All the effects of all the crappy cards you cycled barely for free are just bonus.
Again, I don't think the card is OP and I don't have a problem with miracle rogue. It is just that, as long as Gadgetzan Auctioneer remains as it is, whenever Blizzard thinks of a new cheap spell, they will have to be concerned with it's interaction with Gadgetzan Auctioneer and no card should cause this much trouble in developing new cards.
The difference between gimmick and sinergy is only consistency. Mrglglrglglglglglglgl!!!
in no world does auctioneer need nerf. miracle is barely viable in my opinion at this point anyways
If the problem is a bunch of cheap rogue spells in the next expansion it doesn't change the argument. How is rogue supposed to win using cheap spells without being able to draw? This is the problem with tempo rogue, you can maintain tempo easily if you use your cheap spells, but you run out of cards by turn 5 or 6 and Sprint on 7 relinquishes tempo, losing you the game.
Playing a deck full of cheap spells isn't viable without the draw, so why would Blizzard add more of them for rogue? It's possible that Druid or Shaman are getting more cheap spells and they are worried about those decks drawing, but then IMO they should just make Auctioneer a rogue-specific card. Miracle is legitimately one of the most difficult decks in the game to play post Leeroy, it is not OP, and it is not over-represented in the meta. There is just no objective reason to nerf it.
I think that receiving the cards after the turn / or that the card would cost more mana would be interesting changes but I don't think that the card is too OP, and I don't think this card necessary needs a nerf. Since I love that there are many creative ways of play various decks. Miracle / Malygod are interesting decks and instead of nerfing these decks people who face lots of miracle rogues should think what they can do and how they should play to win against them. Yes, miracle tends to be good, because the players who run them are playing smart, you just have to turn the tide against them.
It isn't about rogue. It's any class. I can draw 3-4 cards in shaman off of Auctioneer, as can almost any class. Changing auctioneer isn't a "let's kill miracle rogue" thing. If they do it, it's (as others have said) to allow creative room to create all sorts of spells. They said the same thing with nerfing buzzard. They couldn't make any good beasts so long as buzzard was easily playable. Remeber that even if they nerf/change Auctioneer, that doesn't mean they won't come up with other draw engine cards.