If it's not a build-around I really don't see the point of including the card. I don't think you will have the luxury of playing this and waiting around to draw your Antonidas. The tempo loss would be simply too great. Consider that this could be another cycle card or stall card. In the worst case scenario where you need to stall this just sits in your hand; in the best case scenario I think you'd be better off with a cycle card to get your combo pieces more quickly.
Also, Skull of the Man'ari is more close to Florist than this card. This card literally does nothing for you on the turn it is played, and you get value after you draw minions from your deck. Thus you are not guaranteed anything immediately. Skull works on minions in your hand, essentially allowing them to be played for free on the very next turn 100% of the time (provided you have a minion in hand). Florist also does this - it works on minions in your hand immediately, allowing them to be played the next turn for 7 mana less.
It's a big deal that this is not guaranteed repayment until you draw a minion, while Florist and Skull gives you value guaranteed on the turn after. And what's more with Florist and Skull you can guarantee what you get their value on, with this you can't.
Easy meta-defining card, but not in the way that many people have been stating. This isn't ideal for a combo deck like a quest mage because this is dependent on you not drawing your combo pieces before you play this card. However, it is an absolutely amazing card in a minion-heavy mage deck, like elemental mage, where is just lets you flood the board with stats.
Also, imagine the result if you are playing a thief rogue and you manage to discover/copy this card. With preparation to speed it out (turn 3 with coin + prep), you basically just win. This isn't going to be common, but we will remember when it happens.
at first look this seems amazing for a number of reasons, good in quest mage, good with antonidas, good with aluneth, amazing to discover from glyph and lets not forget everyone seems to love playing malygos decks these days so why not make a malygos mage deck with this card, get your malygos to cost 1 and just pew pew your opponents face with fireballs, frostbolts, arcane missiles etc. lol
As some who played a LOT of quest Druid, I don't think this card will be good.
Except it's not a good comparison. Quest Druid requires a lot of steps and mana to complete. This requires drawing it and playing it. Also, it can be tutored by Raven. It's a lot different.
I do think it's going to be harder to use effectively than a lot of people think, however.
I smell a tier 2 or 3 deck brewing.. Stargazer Luna and this can sort of make this deck playable but it seems inconsistent on paper... Maybe its the late game finisher of a zoo-ish tempo-ish style of deck
I feel like this will be solid but maybe not as good or not in the way some people are thinking. I don't think combo is the way to go. I've seen alex and maly mentioned but there cost is too high to baleful banker reliably, and they're one offs so if you draw them then there is no combo.
I'm thinking this just goes in a minion heavy value deck. Book of specters becomes a call to arms with no cap on minion cost, stargazer luna would let you literally fill your board with minions of any cost. With ravens and/or grand activist you could somewhat reliably have this in the late game, the question is how do you build the deck so you survive to the late game and wont have a lot of dead cards early.
I've been thinking about a tempo deck trying to use this as some people suggest; personally I think it doesn't fit over there either.
Rule no 1 of using this in a tempo deck: you NEVER, EVER want to cast this using actual mana. It costs 7, and does nothing for tempo. That's very bad. That means you always want to have this cast by Grand Archivist. Don't run Ravens, you don't want to draw this. Even with double Grand Archivist, you have a 33% chance this finds your way into your hand before the Grand Archivists. In those games this card is useless.
Then a natural problem arises. Since this is a tempo deck and not a combo/stall/control deck, you want to ensure that you have a consistent early game start. Control decks can come back from a bad early game through drawing AoE and heal cards, tempo decks can't. So that means putting a lot of early game minions. That conflicts with this card: the payoff from this card is that you get to play minions for cheap, yet the majority of your deck is already low costed to the point where it hardly makes a difference. And you're going to have to run some really good cycle to justify it as well, because tempo decks tend to run out of steam in the mid game, and no one cares that you played a 1 mana Sea Giant or a 10 mana Sea Giant if that's all you're playing that turn.
Overall I say even in a tempo deck this card is not worth running; and that's not even mentioning Big decks - Mage can't ramp, so the earliest you see this consistently is t7 (yeah, you could Glyph it, but let's be honest - that's not going to be happening often enough). And on t8 you get to play something big if you're lucky enough to have drawn a minion and have 7 mana left over while holding all those 8 drops in your hand. When we look at Big decks in the past, Big Priest, for example, starts cheating out Lich Kings and Obsidian Statues and Y'Shaarjs by t5. This is way too slow compared to that.
Okay seriously though, if combos beautifully with virtually every combo minion ever played. just discounting Malygos or Archmage Antonidas would be brokenly good, but discounting everything?
Aviana wasn't played for her 5/5 body, that's for sure. So for the "downside" of not having a body that can be killed, it costs two less mana?
The only saving grace here is that it doesn't work on minions in your hand and you can have only one copy in your deck, so you might not draw it until no combo pieces are left in your deck... but I think mages have plenty of combos that are nuts with this card and still playable without this card.
At best, you pull this off on turn 7 (turn 5 if you discover it with Primordial Glyph but that isn't consistent) but even then, you are doing nothing at all on turn 7.
Exodia Mage? You are trying to convince me that a Mage deck would run something like Baleful Banker to shuffle back in minions?
Talking about the minion heavy builds: how are you going to control the board against flood decks? Love Kibler's Elemental Mage but the deck suffers against decks that go wide. If everyone is worried that this set will make the meta combo based, aggro will be the dominant counter to it. This deck wouldn't be able to survive long enough to play Luna's Pocket Galaxy let alone sacrificing a whole turn to play it.
I will reserve judgement. Although it looks crazy on paper. I do remember how everyone lost their shit when Troggzor the Earthinator was revealed and he turned out to be mostly trash.
Wild Yogg-Saron , Hope's End buff!
Big Minion Mage
If it's not a build-around I really don't see the point of including the card. I don't think you will have the luxury of playing this and waiting around to draw your Antonidas. The tempo loss would be simply too great. Consider that this could be another cycle card or stall card. In the worst case scenario where you need to stall this just sits in your hand; in the best case scenario I think you'd be better off with a cycle card to get your combo pieces more quickly.
Also, Skull of the Man'ari is more close to Florist than this card. This card literally does nothing for you on the turn it is played, and you get value after you draw minions from your deck. Thus you are not guaranteed anything immediately. Skull works on minions in your hand, essentially allowing them to be played for free on the very next turn 100% of the time (provided you have a minion in hand). Florist also does this - it works on minions in your hand immediately, allowing them to be played the next turn for 7 mana less.
It's a big deal that this is not guaranteed repayment until you draw a minion, while Florist and Skull gives you value guaranteed on the turn after. And what's more with Florist and Skull you can guarantee what you get their value on, with this you can't.
Easy meta-defining card, but not in the way that many people have been stating. This isn't ideal for a combo deck like a quest mage because this is dependent on you not drawing your combo pieces before you play this card. However, it is an absolutely amazing card in a minion-heavy mage deck, like elemental mage, where is just lets you flood the board with stats.
Also, imagine the result if you are playing a thief rogue and you manage to discover/copy this card. With preparation to speed it out (turn 3 with coin + prep), you basically just win. This isn't going to be common, but we will remember when it happens.
at first look this seems amazing for a number of reasons, good in quest mage, good with antonidas, good with aluneth, amazing to discover from glyph and lets not forget everyone seems to love playing malygos decks these days so why not make a malygos mage deck with this card, get your malygos to cost 1 and just pew pew your opponents face with fireballs, frostbolts, arcane missiles etc. lol
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
Except it's not a good comparison. Quest Druid requires a lot of steps and mana to complete. This requires drawing it and playing it. Also, it can be tutored by Raven. It's a lot different.
I do think it's going to be harder to use effectively than a lot of people think, however.
I thought this was in Orion's belt.
Phant4sm#1722
I smell a tier 2 or 3 deck brewing.. Stargazer Luna and this can sort of make this deck playable but it seems inconsistent on paper... Maybe its the late game finisher of a zoo-ish tempo-ish style of deck
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I feel like this will be solid but maybe not as good or not in the way some people are thinking. I don't think combo is the way to go. I've seen alex and maly mentioned but there cost is too high to baleful banker reliably, and they're one offs so if you draw them then there is no combo.
I'm thinking this just goes in a minion heavy value deck. Book of specters becomes a call to arms with no cap on minion cost, stargazer luna would let you literally fill your board with minions of any cost. With ravens and/or grand activist you could somewhat reliably have this in the late game, the question is how do you build the deck so you survive to the late game and wont have a lot of dead cards early.
I bet this is gonna be the most Beautiful Golden Card.
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
I've been thinking about a tempo deck trying to use this as some people suggest; personally I think it doesn't fit over there either.
Rule no 1 of using this in a tempo deck: you NEVER, EVER want to cast this using actual mana. It costs 7, and does nothing for tempo. That's very bad. That means you always want to have this cast by Grand Archivist. Don't run Ravens, you don't want to draw this. Even with double Grand Archivist, you have a 33% chance this finds your way into your hand before the Grand Archivists. In those games this card is useless.
Then a natural problem arises. Since this is a tempo deck and not a combo/stall/control deck, you want to ensure that you have a consistent early game start. Control decks can come back from a bad early game through drawing AoE and heal cards, tempo decks can't. So that means putting a lot of early game minions. That conflicts with this card: the payoff from this card is that you get to play minions for cheap, yet the majority of your deck is already low costed to the point where it hardly makes a difference. And you're going to have to run some really good cycle to justify it as well, because tempo decks tend to run out of steam in the mid game, and no one cares that you played a 1 mana Sea Giant or a 10 mana Sea Giant if that's all you're playing that turn.
Overall I say even in a tempo deck this card is not worth running; and that's not even mentioning Big decks - Mage can't ramp, so the earliest you see this consistently is t7 (yeah, you could Glyph it, but let's be honest - that's not going to be happening often enough). And on t8 you get to play something big if you're lucky enough to have drawn a minion and have 7 mana left over while holding all those 8 drops in your hand. When we look at Big decks in the past, Big Priest, for example, starts cheating out Lich Kings and Obsidian Statues and Y'Shaarjs by t5. This is way too slow compared to that.
I just want to see this card in golden, must be looking freaking amazing.
...
Malygos = Best card in the game
Favorite Cards: 1. Lord Jaraxxus | 2. Malygos| 3. Edwin VanCleef | 4. Zephrys the Great| 5. Deathwing
Combos beautifully with Star Aligner.
Hahahaha...
Okay seriously though, if combos beautifully with virtually every combo minion ever played. just discounting Malygos or Archmage Antonidas would be brokenly good, but discounting everything?
Aviana wasn't played for her 5/5 body, that's for sure. So for the "downside" of not having a body that can be killed, it costs two less mana?
The only saving grace here is that it doesn't work on minions in your hand and you can have only one copy in your deck, so you might not draw it until no combo pieces are left in your deck... but I think mages have plenty of combos that are nuts with this card and still playable without this card.
Calling it now: This is this set's The Marsh Queen / Lady in White
At best, you pull this off on turn 7 (turn 5 if you discover it with Primordial Glyph but that isn't consistent) but even then, you are doing nothing at all on turn 7.
Exodia Mage? You are trying to convince me that a Mage deck would run something like Baleful Banker to shuffle back in minions?
Talking about the minion heavy builds: how are you going to control the board against flood decks? Love Kibler's Elemental Mage but the deck suffers against decks that go wide. If everyone is worried that this set will make the meta combo based, aggro will be the dominant counter to it. This deck wouldn't be able to survive long enough to play Luna's Pocket Galaxy let alone sacrificing a whole turn to play it.
Elemental Mage can actually be a thing now?
You do not truly know someone, until you fight them.....
Amazing
I will reserve judgement. Although it looks crazy on paper. I do remember how everyone lost their shit when Troggzor the Earthinator was revealed and he turned out to be mostly trash.
I'll run this in my Big Spell Mage in Wild. Being able to drop a Dragoncaller Alana and a Loatheb on the same turn in the late game will be brutal
This is actually amazing in Control Mage.......