I'm familiar with it since the start of K&K, but Zilliax would have made the combo a bit too consistent and thus problematic. I purposely mentioned the pre-nerfed Warsong Commander as an example. It's really stupid to lose a game just because you put your opponent low on health, but couldn't kill them immediately, and they punish you for it. Mortal Strike and Hooked Reaver are one thing, but a full heal and potential board clear/OTK burst are another. I'm going to agree, that this combo wouldn't have been as strong as the pre-nerfed Warson commander deck was, but it's still kinda annoying nevertheless.
Look, similar interactions are being nerfed mainly due to the fact, that they are limiting space design. Remember when the lifesteal mechanic was introduced? Before that if there was an Auchenai Soulpriest with a Mistress of Pain/Wickerflame Burnbristle on the board, the latter cards would have created an "infinite" loop, which would have ended the game on the spot. Dreadsteed would have also caused an "infinite" loop when activating the Defile's (14) triggers over and over again, which would have led to a super board clear with a free body for only 6 mana. The Shadowboxer-Zilliax combo is still pretty strong even it's not an OTK on its own. The ability to fully heal your hero and to impact the board for 9 mana (2+5+HP) and making a board presence is still pretty darn good. Such combos are just problematic. Fun, but problematic.
Dunno, this is just my opinion.
I really like your opinions and reasoning behind your posts Kovachut, but I don,t agree with you on this one. You can't talk about Wild experience because you are far more familiar with Standart(so your Wild deckbuilding experienc is pretty limited) To me it just seems unfair that they are nerfing wacky cards that might have powerfull combo while other problems exist. (mana cheating stuff like. Voidcaller, Kingsbane in Wild, and so on). I can make it even further when I say that these Dreadsteed or Shadowboxer shennanigans can be countered by Rats or Deathlords wehich are already runned even in some midrangey decks. For me, it feels like official description of Wild is fadding away with nerfs like this. Blizzard can't just nerf all the possible interactions. Wild will be still far more powerfull than Standart. I'm just putting there the slogan of the Wild format9slogan of basically any eternal format):
So they changed a near useless card because of interactions with upcoming cards that might actually ve playable and people cry like babies? This community is a sad joke at times...
It's called feedback. Not sure what world you live in where you believe that if you aren't happy with something that you just stay silent & expect a business to read your mind & simply know that their decision negatively affects your play experience.
You don't nerf something without knowing that it actually represents a severe problem (Plus wild is an eternal format. You don't see Yu-Gi-Oh & Magic going around nerfing cards in such a format because they released a card in a new expansion). T5 has constantly been wrong about cards before & their interpretations about a card that was going to supposedly be good or bad (Just look at how they felt Valeera the Hollow would be received, or how they didn't expect Shudderwock to be received). The same concept applies to this theorycrafted combo.
It’s always unfortunate to see old cards like this have to get nerfs to prevent broken combos, like what happened with Dreadsteed. But if Shadowboxer had to go for the greater good, then I can accept that.
You don't see Yu-Gi-Oh & Magic going around nerfing cards in such a format because they released a card in a new expansion).
Yes. Yes you do. YGO often banned OCG cards before they were released in the TCG. Also, it's silly to compare a digital CCG to a cardboard one in this instance.
I'd rather have pre-emptive nerfing than be waiting around like with patches or naga sea witch. It just sorta sucks to see an already weak card getting the shaft becuase they want to prioritise the new set, but I understand it.
I'd rather have pre-emptive nerfing than be waiting around like with patches or naga sea witch. It just sorta sucks to see an already weak card getting the shaft becuase they want to prioritise the new set, but I understand it.
pretty much exactly what I wanted to say here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I was afraid, that someone was going to mention it. Well, true. I AM a Standard player, I have left the wild format long time ago, because I was disgusted by some cards (like Tunnel Trogg). There's no denying that I'm kinda unexperienced there and thus I won't properly judge what's acceptable and what's not. But I have an opinion. I have a vague notion of what I would have not tolerated if I'd stood there. The first thing, which comes through my mind is the pre-nerfed Giantlock. Even though some say, that it didn't have a high win-rate back then, I know that I would have lost my mind if I always died on turn 5 w/o being able to respond to my opponent's cheesy plays properly and being punished for it.
But anyway, wacky or not - if a card takes part of a super powerful combo, which can either hinder the playability of other decks/archtypes (just like Jade Druid did back in MSOG or Quest Rogue in UnGoro) or even push out other cards with a similar effect, then we have a problem. It's also sad for me to say goodbye to those fun cards, but if this means opening more space for future ones, then I can accept it. Dreadsteed in combination with Defile would have created the ultimate board clear, which would have been relatively cheap and at the same time really strong against sticky boards (Deathrattles, Taunt Druid). If the devs allowed it to stay, then we warlocks would have been really oppressive against any board centered deck and our control decks would have been the preferred ones in those metas. Defile would have caused 14 damage on the spot and it would have nullified the domino board-state condition (and with it the idea behind the design). Shadowboxer would have been like a Reno Jackson with the addition of doing some pings to the opponent's board/face and w/o the no-duplicates requirement. It would have caused an OTK, if the priest player played two of them on the same turn, in order to double the damage and making it a 3-card combo.
In comparison - current OTK/TTK decks require a lot of set-up:
- Freeze Mage - bunch of spells + Emperor's ticks. - Maly Druid - Aviana + Kun + Maly + Faceless and/or lots of burn. - Togwaggle Druid - Aviana + Kun + Togwaggle + 2x Naturalize/ Azalina and having drawn most of your deck - Exodia Mage - 5 combo pieces + quest reward or Emperor's tick. - Anyfin Paladin (for me it's still a combo deck, kinda) - lots of cycle and combo pieces, which also need to die. - Velen Ressurection Priest - -//- - Shudderwock - a lot of cycle and pieces. - Maly Rogue/Shaman - -//- - Exodia Paladin (kinda weak) -//-
Soo I think that the nerfs to those cards were reasonable.
For me, it feels like official description of Wild is fadding away with nerfs like this.
I personally think that changes to problematic interactions in general just allow more decks to breath freely. I agree that it feels unfair, if some cards get nerfed, while others not. That's something, which the devs have to put in their bucket list. Either this or to give us more tools to deal with them, or to create a whole new format, where it contains all cards with their pre-nerf versions. This format can be deservedly called wild, while the current wild format could be renamed to Eternal or something else. This way everyone can be happy.
My issue with this is the fact that only 1 class is taken into consideration. And that class is already pretty weakened. Outside of Big Priest (pretty boring and skillless deck honestly), there is only Reno Priest and Inner Fire Priest varriations as a Tier 2 decks. It seems unfair to me that other classes are getting away with other comboes such as Glinda+Mechwarper+Zillax on Turn 9 for trully huge board, while OTK potential of Priest requires 2 Shadowboxers and opponents clear board. (And Warlocks really don't deserve another combo, they already have N'Zoth,Guldan,Cubes and all this other stuff) I mean I can counter some of these interactions, but so I can counter the Priest one. I can't see the logic behind this Blizzard's move and it just shows that they are clearly like some classes more than other ones. I'm Kabal main, and overall all class player (Playing stuff like Big Rogue, Reno Hunter,Cube Hunter and so on), so I will try other classes playing too, but it just really hurts my heart how Priest gets another hit by a nerfbat.
On a Defile topic i will just copy my analization of it's interaction with Dreadsteed in modern Wild from another thread. While I agree it would be powerfull, It wouldn't be powerfull enough to dominate Wild meta. It would be like middle Tier 2 due to the fact what other Wild decks are capable off:
Just think about it: Even though there is full boarclear at 6 mana, Defile is still looped at max 20 or 14 triggers (I can't remember now correctly). And while it is still a pretty powerfull boarclear at 6 mana, don't forget about board wipes like Pyro+Equality or Doomsayer+Treachery which are slightly worse against Dethrattle minnions. Also the deck which will run this combo won't have N'Zoth or Guldan as a finisher because Dreadsteed messes up their ressurection pool really a lot. 7 or 6 1/1 in late game is not impressive at all especially in Wild mode. Did I mention how shitty is this card as a standalone one? It is a 4 mana 1/1 vulnerable to silence,transform effect and basically agasint any minion that have 2 health (So he can't trade with it efficiently). "But FirePaladin, they changed it so stupid OTK with Kniffe Jugglers won't happen". I disagree with that. First Point: As I mentioned, there are ton of Silence and Transform effect in Wild. Second Point: there are combo disruptive cards so it is not easy to pull up. Even if the pull it up it is not OTK with 1 Dreadsteed. The only reason why it is working with Patrons and Necrotic Geist is the fact that mulltiple Patrons and Ghouls tokens are summoned at the same time so Juggler gets multiple triggers from 1 round of Defile.
The community wants fun and broken combos in Wild as long it doesn´t hit them, but once this combo becomes a big part of the meta decks it isn´t fun anymore because it´s broken and not fun to play against. I can already see the poor souls who would cry in every social media about how insane the new interaction with the new expansion and Shadowboxer is.
"Nerfing" Tess Greymane was such a big deal for everyone because blizzard didn´t wanted to give the full dust back. Now Blizzard decides to nerf a card because it will be too strong in the new expansion and gives the full dust back but everyone is still pissed. GOd damn i feel bad for Blizzard.
Since it's getting late in my country, I will try to answer your post tomorrow. But I came here just to respond quickly to the warlock Glinda combo:
Do you seriously think it's that impressive? There were a lot of people (incl. myself), who pointed out its flaws. It's kinda impressive because Glinda multiplies the minions, but it's a 3-card combo, which doesn't kill the opponent on the spot, it's super slow (n' clunky) and it can be countered by many board clears. Not to mention, that @ 9 mana most of us can respond to it adequately (unlike the pre-nerfed Naga combo).
Also also, as others mentioned this isn't as powerful as the pre-nerfed Naga combo. In the past the warlock player could play bunch of giants on turn 5, which was exceptionally strong due to the fact, that the opponent may not have the ability to answer it. Partly because they wouldn't have the needed cards to do so, but also because they wouldn't have the needed mana. However the current combo can be countered in several ways:
Warrior - Brawl, whirlwind effect + reckless flurry (and hopefully having the needed armour) Hunter - concede (or some OP zombeast) Paladin - Equality + Pyro + 2 cheap spells, enter the coliseum Shaman - devolve* Rogue - vanish Druid - Poison Seeds Mage - concede (this or nova+doomsayer, but normally you will have some tools to deal with him) Warlock - twisting Priest - Anduin, Psychic, spirit lash+lightbomb, mass dispell + Kazakus Potions
I highly doubt that the devs will implement a charging mech, so there won't be any OTK scenarios any time soon. This combo can only work against mid-range and some control ones.
The community wants fun and broken combos in Wild as long it doesn´t hit them, but once this combo becomes a big part of the meta decks it isn´t fun anymore because it´s broken and not fun to play against. I can already see the poor souls who would cry in every social media about how insane the new interaction with the new expansion and Shadowboxer is.
"Nerfing" Tess Greymane was such a big deal for everyone because blizzard didn´t wanted to give the full dust back. Now Blizzard decides to nerf a card because it will be too strong in the new expansion and gives the full dust back but everyone is still pissed. GOd damn i feel bad for Blizzard.
They nerf a good card interaction, and we want this combo to stay, you don't?
Kind of sad, i really wanted to try it with Zylliax, but i think is right. I genuinely thought that if a GvG was gonna be nerfed it would have been Mechwarper. Ok, is not an OTK, but 9 mana, 3 card destroy opponent board, heal yourself to max life and threaten lethal next turn if opponent as no board clear (psychic scream / twisting nether / mass dispel / devolve / anduin / spiris lash + lightbomb) it doesnt looks "fine" to me.
It can go off as an OTK deck with Wrathguard, Treachery and Emperor Thaurissan but that is off the topic and it requires the deck to be build around it :P. I don't know how viable it would be though. Sometimes decks that were supposed to be memeing appeared like a strong ones. (TogAzalina, Big Rogue and others at the beginning)
In my opinion this combo(not OTK one) is problematic because you can jam it into Renolock quite easily and it becomes another powerfull thing. Im aware that some classes can clear this board. But don't forget that you have to clear also multiple Kazakus Potions, Guldan and N'Zoth while dodging Rats and Gnomefratus. Reno decks milking out full potential are really scary decks ( I can tell that by myself because I have different builds of Reno decks in 5 classes). Adding another 3 card combo like this is really too much.
I'm going out for a jog. Once I come back, I will reply to your post.
But this 3-card combo in Reno decks??? Don't you think it's really greedy. You will just dilute your deck with bunch of clunky/expensive cards. And which ones will you cut, in order to make room for this combo?
Kind of sad, i really wanted to try it with Zylliax, but i think is right. I genuinely thought that if a GvG was gonna be nerfed it would have been Mechwarper. Ok, is not an OTK, but 9 mana, 3 card destroy opponent board, heal yourself to max life and threaten lethal next turn if opponent as no board clear (psychic scream / twisting nether / mass dispel / devolve / anduin / spiris lash + lightbomb) it doesnt looks "fine" to me.
Not fine for sure. But as you mentioned: there are many board clears for this. You also forgot: Poison Seeds (with the new treant-cards it's quite interresting), brawl (you can't buff so many cards until rope hits that a brawl would not prevent lethal), Equality-shenanigans and who know what class gets a board clear this turn (in a expansion with lot of bombs I would not be surprised; also one card art already shows a board clear)
And to get exactly this combo would require exactly this 3 cards, not too hard in warlock, but consistent enough?
I'm going out for a jog. Once I come back, I will reply to your post.
But this 3-card combo in Reno decks??? Don't you think it's really greedy. You will just dilute your deck with bunch of clunky/expensive cards. And which ones will you cut, in order to make room for this combo?
Sry I can't wait anymore. It is past midnight there so I'm gonna answer your question. I gotta take my dogs for a walk and get some sleep before studying xD
Reno decks in general are highly synergetic machines, that are looking for a cards that might be good enough to be run by themselves, but even more powerfull in a comboes. (As a result: You can see lineups in Kabal Reno: Brann+Kazakus+Banker/Zola/Soulcaster, Brann+Rat+Banker etc.,Deathrattle shennanigans in Reno Hunter, And strong Battlecries in Reno Shudder Shaman.) But all these cards are also good as a standalone cards (except clear combo enablers like Play Dead). Now if we apply this on Renolock, we now can see one of the reasons why it is Tier 1 deck in Wild at this moment while 3 other Reno decks are at Tier 2, and 1 Reno deck at High Tier 3 (Reno Shaman). It is because of his Hero Power. He can literally have 0 draw in cards, and still have enough cards in hand. Diversity of combinations with Reno cards and his tapping Hero Power, result in a disgusting machine that can bully anything (Trust me, I've managed to outplay Kingsbane Mill Rogue not only with Renolock, but also with Reno Mage). Of course he will be that unstopabble in the right hands (same as prenerfed Razakus and Cubelock), but even people with a medium knowledge how to pilot this deck can archieve the big results. Now where can put the 3 card combo in this deck? Because Renolock doesn't run carddraw (except Kobold Librarian and sometimes Mortal Coil), he have instead some other cards that might be Tech cards, or other questionable ones (Like ,Spellbreaker,Ooze,Mountain Giant, Dark Peddler, Lesser Spellstone, Mortal Coil, Shadowflame,Demonfire and so on). By cutting them out and putting that 3 copmbo cards, you are not gonna hurt your deck because of the few next reasons that I'm gonna describe: 1. Mechwarper is still a good body for 2 mana. It can be easily played against board contesting decks at turn 2 without any regret ( another examples are Gnomeferatu and Plated Beetle). 2. Glinda is a card that can be comboed with the others like Banker,Gnomferatu and Rat. With a discount from Emperror that is ran in any solid Renolock even wider varriations appear. 3. Zillax is a solid Control card by itself with providing you with 3 heal and getting silenced/removed at worst, and healing for 6 and removing 2 midrangey things at best. As a perfect example, let's look at this Renolock deck with most stats at HS.Replay:
If we remove 3 cards such as Mountain Giant,Corrupting Mist,Spellbreaker,Darbomb or Shadowfalme for a 3 card combo which are also good as a standalones. It wouldn't be greedy at all. It would just improve the winrate and add another powerfull thing which Renolock can do.
Edit: Few more sentences added to make more clear what am I talking about.
I really like your opinions and reasoning behind your posts Kovachut, but I don,t agree with you on this one. You can't talk about Wild experience because you are far more familiar with Standart(so your Wild deckbuilding experienc is pretty limited) To me it just seems unfair that they are nerfing wacky cards that might have powerfull combo while other problems exist. (mana cheating stuff like. Voidcaller, Kingsbane in Wild, and so on). I can make it even further when I say that these Dreadsteed or Shadowboxer shennanigans can be countered by Rats or Deathlords wehich are already runned even in some midrangey decks. For me, it feels like official description of Wild is fadding away with nerfs like this. Blizzard can't just nerf all the possible interactions. Wild will be still far more powerfull than Standart. I'm just putting there the slogan of the Wild format9slogan of basically any eternal format):
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
It's called feedback. Not sure what world you live in where you believe that if you aren't happy with something that you just stay silent & expect a business to read your mind & simply know that their decision negatively affects your play experience.
You don't nerf something without knowing that it actually represents a severe problem (Plus wild is an eternal format. You don't see Yu-Gi-Oh & Magic going around nerfing cards in such a format because they released a card in a new expansion). T5 has constantly been wrong about cards before & their interpretations about a card that was going to supposedly be good or bad (Just look at how they felt Valeera the Hollow would be received, or how they didn't expect Shudderwock to be received). The same concept applies to this theorycrafted combo.
It’s always unfortunate to see old cards like this have to get nerfs to prevent broken combos, like what happened with Dreadsteed. But if Shadowboxer had to go for the greater good, then I can accept that.
Whoops. I totally forgot the Rush part. You are right.
Yes. Yes you do. YGO often banned OCG cards before they were released in the TCG. Also, it's silly to compare a digital CCG to a cardboard one in this instance.
I'd rather have pre-emptive nerfing than be waiting around like with patches or naga sea witch. It just sorta sucks to see an already weak card getting the shaft becuase they want to prioritise the new set, but I understand it.
pretty much exactly what I wanted to say here.
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
I was enjoying to play this deck, I'm a bit pissed now.
Shadowboxer was my favorite card since GvG. I hate you blizzard.
Now I have to change something with Wild Pyromancer ...
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I was afraid, that someone was going to mention it. Well, true. I AM a Standard player, I have left the wild format long time ago, because I was disgusted by some cards (like Tunnel Trogg). There's no denying that I'm kinda unexperienced there and thus I won't properly judge what's acceptable and what's not. But I have an opinion. I have a vague notion of what I would have not tolerated if I'd stood there. The first thing, which comes through my mind is the pre-nerfed Giantlock. Even though some say, that it didn't have a high win-rate back then, I know that I would have lost my mind if I always died on turn 5 w/o being able to respond to my opponent's cheesy plays properly and being punished for it.
But anyway, wacky or not - if a card takes part of a super powerful combo, which can either hinder the playability of other decks/archtypes (just like Jade Druid did back in MSOG or Quest Rogue in UnGoro) or even push out other cards with a similar effect, then we have a problem. It's also sad for me to say goodbye to those fun cards, but if this means opening more space for future ones, then I can accept it. Dreadsteed in combination with Defile would have created the ultimate board clear, which would have been relatively cheap and at the same time really strong against sticky boards (Deathrattles, Taunt Druid). If the devs allowed it to stay, then we warlocks would have been really oppressive against any board centered deck and our control decks would have been the preferred ones in those metas. Defile would have caused 14 damage on the spot and it would have nullified the domino board-state condition (and with it the idea behind the design). Shadowboxer would have been like a Reno Jackson with the addition of doing some pings to the opponent's board/face and w/o the no-duplicates requirement. It would have caused an OTK, if the priest player played two of them on the same turn, in order to double the damage and making it a 3-card combo.
In comparison - current OTK/TTK decks require a lot of set-up:
- Freeze Mage - bunch of spells + Emperor's ticks.
- Maly Druid - Aviana + Kun + Maly + Faceless and/or lots of burn.
- Togwaggle Druid - Aviana + Kun + Togwaggle + 2x Naturalize/ Azalina and having drawn most of your deck
- Exodia Mage - 5 combo pieces + quest reward or Emperor's tick.
- Anyfin Paladin (for me it's still a combo deck, kinda) - lots of cycle and combo pieces, which also need to die.
- Velen Ressurection Priest - -//-
- Shudderwock - a lot of cycle and pieces.
- Maly Rogue/Shaman - -//-
- Exodia Paladin (kinda weak) -//-
Soo I think that the nerfs to those cards were reasonable.
I personally think that changes to problematic interactions in general just allow more decks to breath freely. I agree that it feels unfair, if some cards get nerfed, while others not. That's something, which the devs have to put in their bucket list. Either this or to give us more tools to deal with them, or to create a whole new format, where it contains all cards with their pre-nerf versions. This format can be deservedly called wild, while the current wild format could be renamed to Eternal or something else. This way everyone can be happy.
Here's the thing: this is not a nerf, it's a buff. In most cases it's preferable for random damage to hit minions instead of the enemy's face.
That is especially true in the case of cheap cards that are often played early in the game.
My issue with this is the fact that only 1 class is taken into consideration. And that class is already pretty weakened. Outside of Big Priest (pretty boring and skillless deck honestly), there is only Reno Priest and Inner Fire Priest varriations as a Tier 2 decks. It seems unfair to me that other classes are getting away with other comboes such as Glinda+Mechwarper+Zillax on Turn 9 for trully huge board, while OTK potential of Priest requires 2 Shadowboxers and opponents clear board. (And Warlocks really don't deserve another combo, they already have N'Zoth,Guldan,Cubes and all this other stuff) I mean I can counter some of these interactions, but so I can counter the Priest one. I can't see the logic behind this Blizzard's move and it just shows that they are clearly like some classes more than other ones. I'm Kabal main, and overall all class player (Playing stuff like Big Rogue, Reno Hunter,Cube Hunter and so on), so I will try other classes playing too, but it just really hurts my heart how Priest gets another hit by a nerfbat.
On a Defile topic i will just copy my analization of it's interaction with Dreadsteed in modern Wild from another thread. While I agree it would be powerfull, It wouldn't be powerfull enough to dominate Wild meta. It would be like middle Tier 2 due to the fact what other Wild decks are capable off:
Just think about it: Even though there is full boarclear at 6 mana, Defile is still looped at max 20 or 14 triggers (I can't remember now correctly). And while it is still a pretty powerfull boarclear at 6 mana, don't forget about board wipes like Pyro+Equality or Doomsayer+Treachery which are slightly worse against Dethrattle minnions. Also the deck which will run this combo won't have N'Zoth or Guldan as a finisher because Dreadsteed messes up their ressurection pool really a lot. 7 or 6 1/1 in late game is not impressive at all especially in Wild mode. Did I mention how shitty is this card as a standalone one? It is a 4 mana 1/1 vulnerable to silence,transform effect and basically agasint any minion that have 2 health (So he can't trade with it efficiently). "But FirePaladin, they changed it so stupid OTK with Kniffe Jugglers won't happen". I disagree with that. First Point: As I mentioned, there are ton of Silence and Transform effect in Wild. Second Point: there are combo disruptive cards so it is not easy to pull up. Even if the pull it up it is not OTK with 1 Dreadsteed. The only reason why it is working with Patrons and Necrotic Geist is the fact that mulltiple Patrons and Ghouls tokens are summoned at the same time so Juggler gets multiple triggers from 1 round of Defile.
Source
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Makes me wonder what cards are planned that makes the beast and elemental tags too strong on the other nerfed cards.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
The community wants fun and broken combos in Wild as long it doesn´t hit them, but once this combo becomes a big part of the meta decks it isn´t fun anymore because it´s broken and not fun to play against. I can already see the poor souls who would cry in every social media about how insane the new interaction with the new expansion and Shadowboxer is.
"Nerfing" Tess Greymane was such a big deal for everyone because blizzard didn´t wanted to give the full dust back.
Now Blizzard decides to nerf a card because it will be too strong in the new expansion and gives the full dust back but everyone is still pissed. GOd damn i feel bad for Blizzard.
Since it's getting late in my country, I will try to answer your post tomorrow. But I came here just to respond quickly to the warlock Glinda combo:
Do you seriously think it's that impressive? There were a lot of people (incl. myself), who pointed out its flaws. It's kinda impressive because Glinda multiplies the minions, but it's a 3-card combo, which doesn't kill the opponent on the spot, it's super slow (n' clunky) and it can be countered by many board clears. Not to mention, that @ 9 mana most of us can respond to it adequately (unlike the pre-nerfed Naga combo).
They nerf a good card interaction, and we want this combo to stay, you don't?
The goal of all life is death.
Kind of sad, i really wanted to try it with Zylliax, but i think is right.
I genuinely thought that if a GvG was gonna be nerfed it would have been Mechwarper. Ok, is not an OTK, but 9 mana, 3 card destroy opponent board, heal yourself to max life and threaten lethal next turn if opponent as no board clear (psychic scream / twisting nether / mass dispel / devolve / anduin / spiris lash + lightbomb) it doesnt looks "fine" to me.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I'm going out for a jog. Once I come back, I will reply to your post.
But this 3-card combo in Reno decks??? Don't you think it's really greedy. You will just dilute your deck with bunch of clunky/expensive cards. And which ones will you cut, in order to make room for this combo?
Not fine for sure. But as you mentioned: there are many board clears for this. You also forgot: Poison Seeds (with the new treant-cards it's quite interresting), brawl (you can't buff so many cards until rope hits that a brawl would not prevent lethal), Equality-shenanigans and who know what class gets a board clear this turn (in a expansion with lot of bombs I would not be surprised; also one card art already shows a board clear)
And to get exactly this combo would require exactly this 3 cards, not too hard in warlock, but consistent enough?
Sry I can't wait anymore. It is past midnight there so I'm gonna answer your question. I gotta take my dogs for a walk and get some sleep before studying xD
Reno decks in general are highly synergetic machines, that are looking for a cards that might be good enough to be run by themselves, but even more powerfull in a comboes. (As a result: You can see lineups in Kabal Reno: Brann+Kazakus+Banker/Zola/Soulcaster, Brann+Rat+Banker etc.,Deathrattle shennanigans in Reno Hunter, And strong Battlecries in Reno Shudder Shaman.) But all these cards are also good as a standalone cards (except clear combo enablers like Play Dead). Now if we apply this on Renolock, we now can see one of the reasons why it is Tier 1 deck in Wild at this moment while 3 other Reno decks are at Tier 2, and 1 Reno deck at High Tier 3 (Reno Shaman). It is because of his Hero Power. He can literally have 0 draw in cards, and still have enough cards in hand. Diversity of combinations with Reno cards and his tapping Hero Power, result in a disgusting machine that can bully anything (Trust me, I've managed to outplay Kingsbane Mill Rogue not only with Renolock, but also with Reno Mage). Of course he will be that unstopabble in the right hands (same as prenerfed Razakus and Cubelock), but even people with a medium knowledge how to pilot this deck can archieve the big results. Now where can put the 3 card combo in this deck? Because Renolock doesn't run carddraw (except Kobold Librarian and sometimes Mortal Coil), he have instead some other cards that might be Tech cards, or other questionable ones (Like ,Spellbreaker,Ooze,Mountain Giant, Dark Peddler, Lesser Spellstone, Mortal Coil, Shadowflame,Demonfire and so on). By cutting them out and putting that 3 copmbo cards, you are not gonna hurt your deck because of the few next reasons that I'm gonna describe: 1. Mechwarper is still a good body for 2 mana. It can be easily played against board contesting decks at turn 2 without any regret ( another examples are Gnomeferatu and Plated Beetle). 2. Glinda is a card that can be comboed with the others like Banker,Gnomferatu and Rat. With a discount from Emperror that is ran in any solid Renolock even wider varriations appear. 3. Zillax is a solid Control card by itself with providing you with 3 heal and getting silenced/removed at worst, and healing for 6 and removing 2 midrangey things at best. As a perfect example, let's look at this Renolock deck with most stats at HS.Replay:
https://hsreplay.net/decks/od9Ecrue7uUUSkKZ8GoEbf/#gameType=RANKED_WILD
If we remove 3 cards such as Mountain Giant,Corrupting Mist,Spellbreaker,Darbomb or Shadowfalme for a 3 card combo which are also good as a standalones. It wouldn't be greedy at all. It would just improve the winrate and add another powerfull thing which Renolock can do.
Edit: Few more sentences added to make more clear what am I talking about.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks