Hearthpwn

Quote from Irini >>

Quote from FirePalyHSplayer >>

Quote from Irini >>

Sorry for your bad performances. Played 14-7 with it this season, including my last two games today for rank 53 legend with 40mins to go. Overall 69-34 with it since I made the deck in December.

 So it is basically 50% winrate.  Does it sound for you like a Barnes on turn 4 every game? Doest sound for you like Barnes highrolling either Rag or Y'Shaarj instead od Obsidian Statue which is really mediocre against Control even on early turns? The Big Priest that I've played had a little bit higher winrate after tweaks that I've made. 

Neither reading comprehension nor math seem to be your strong suit. Discussing with someone who changes all facts to his liking is futile. I am out of this.

 Oh the irony and hypocrisy of your last post...) Anyway. See you later

Quote from dzquetzal >>

Quote from FirePalyHSplayer >>

Quote from dzquetzal >>

Guys, Barnes increases the winrate of the deck by 18.5% when drawn.
No single card should have that much of an impact (and nothing else comes close from what I've seen). 

 If you like to relly on HS.Replay stats, it also shows that the Big Priest with 15 000 games played has winrate only 60% at best. Which is really not that much compared to Shamans,Rogues and Paladins. Why do you consider them fair? Because losing to a topdeck when you are playing agaisnt them feels more fair? Do you like to lose to Loatheb that locks your AOE for one turn or against turn 4 7/7 or 8/8 Draenei Carver? Or even against Aluneth Mage? Look at what this deck is capable of Turn 4 What is the deal? Why are you not against these types of decks? Tell me it is not just because based on Barnes winrate when played. Please. I already explained in first few pages how much he actually crippled the deck to actually benefit that much from Barnes, why no one answered to this yet?

 Again, overall win rate is not the issue. It's the difference drawing a single card in mulligan makes. The deck is something like 55-58% when it doesn't draw Barnes in Mulligan (too lazy to do exact math now, but you get the point), yet 80% when it does (61% is the average WR, with and without Barnes in mulligan).
The one card single-handedly boosts the winrate by 18% compared to the average, actually over 20% compared to the case of not drawing it.
Drawing Reno (one of the swingiest cards ever) has only a 6% impact in Renolock. Let that sink in.

It's the card that's the main problem, not the deck.
The data shows it clearly.

As for your other question, why I consider those other decks listed fair - who said that I do? I thought Pirate Warrior was too much in its prime, I also think Secret Mage is too much when it highrolls (and most of the ridiculous stuff it pulls is way before Aluneth - bigger problems is e.g. Mana Wyrm, or board flooding followed by Kirin Tor + counterspell on T3 when the opponent has no coin - these scenarios are crazier than PW was).
Yes, there are other ridiculous decks, but they work as packages (Secret Mage), and some of them probably deserve a look and some tweaking, some cards definitely look out of place when it comes to power level for the cost.

No one says everything else is fine. Barnes is just an obvious low-hanging fruit candidate that has, and needs, an easy fix.

 If you are talking only based on swingy potential of the card and how it improves your winrate, then I understand your point :)

The issue with Barnes is that is a totally highroll card, so it may be very frustrating to lose against it just because it gets played on curve. Instead of summoning a token (that can be resurrected again and again for it's trigger) a good fix may be to make Barnes itself takes the abilities of a random minion in your deck. In that way if it get resurrected it will just be a vanilla minion 3/4 while retaining the ability to put on the field a powerfull effect when played.

I really hate facing this card on ladder and they have it on turn 4 way more often than you would think. If Barnes is played on curve there's only little you can do in that situation and it takes the fun out of this game. I think Wild is great but the only bad thing about it is Barnes. I'm stumped how just one card can ruin an entire format.

Quote from ZiombalaBoms >>

What if barnes instead of summoning 1/1 copy,

would summon totally new minion (just like craft zombeast in Deathstalker Rexxar does)

with 1/1 stats + card text.

In that case any resurrect effect will summon 1/1 stats.

 Yeah a good nerf and one that has been previously suggested ,Barnes summons a 1/1 "Actor" that gains the text and subtype of a minion in the deck upon summoning but returns as a 1/1 when resurrected .

Best 2nd option imo after nerfing Resurrect and Eternal Servitude .

Look, I know Big Priest is a problem deck for Wild and Barnes is a major card in terms of the power level of the deck, but I'm going to be honest, Big Priest does not even need Barnes, in fact, you could build a Big Priest deck without Barnes and probably have a similar win-rate.

We could nerf Barnes in a hundred different ways, in fact here's a short list of the various ideas I've seen put forth for a Barnes nerf;

• Increase Barnes mana cost to either 5 or 6
• Barnes summons a 1/1 copy of a random minion (This was from a very salty thread)
• Barnes summons a 1/1 token with the abilities of a random minion in your deck (Basically OP's idea)
• Barnes gains the abilities of a random minion in your deck (This was the most thematic one imo considering Barnes is suppose to be an actor)

All of these things have been suggested, people have argued against the various ideas and all that, but here's the thing. You could remove Barnes from Big Priest and probably do just as good, you would still have Shadow Essence, Resurrect, Eternal Servitude, all the various giant minions that Big Priest likes to summon, as well as many board clears and removal spells necessary.

In the end, any change to Barnes just removes Barnes from Big Priest and maybe from the other decks that run Barnes (this depends on the change though) and Big Priest remains mostly the same. If any change is made to Barnes, it should be to remove the highroll factor from Big Priest in an attempt to put in it line with the other decks while not actually affecting the power level, so the last two options I mentioned above would probably be the best ones (imo).

How about it recruits the actual minion in your deck and it becomes a 1/1

This still leaves the problem that current Barnes (at least in Big Priest), where if you take a minion or a copy of a minion from your deck, the minion that gets reanimated later is an exact copy of the original minion, no stat changes or anything else attached to it. I like the idea as it means that the player won't be able to draw or recruit that minion later (this is mostly for interaction with Y'Sharrg in Big Priest and similar decks), but it does not solve the core issue of Barnes in the terms of Wild's meta, specifically with Big Priest.

You can never change that situation without changing the graveyard system. As I said in another thread, they should introduce the real graveyard, so you can only res the exact minion that dies and only one copy. That will solve the problem of big priest forever.

Instead of changing a core mechanic like how the graveyard works (I think that that will requires tons of time to be implemented), they should just make the minion summoned by Barnes a 0/1 token named like "puppet" that take the ability of a random minion in your deck.