Personally, I think it's either Deathstalker Rexxar and Shadowreaper Anduin, simply because Bloodreaver Gul'dan needs good demons to be good, and Frost Lich Jaina needs a couple more elementals to work, and I'm rating these based on individual strengths, and Build-A-Beast really can't be out-valued, and Voidform is very useful. So what do you guys think (I didn't put in a poll since there weren't enough answer slots)?
Lifesteal Water Elementals are insane though when you get them going. Malfurion is also really good. But as far as Rexxar goes, I would agree with you. It also has the advantage of being very cheap at 6 mana and the aoe it has wipes littles weenies away. Witchwood made Rexxar even better than it was before.
Personally, I think it's either Deathstalker Rexxar and Shadowreaper Anduin, simply because Bloodreaver Gul'dan needs good demons to be good, and Frost Lich Jaina needs a couple more elementals to work, and I'm rating these based on individual strengths, and Build-A-Beast really can't be out-valued, and Voidform is very useful. So what do you guys think (I didn't put in a poll since there weren't enough answer slots)?
I can't disagree more with this statement. Gul'dan is by far the best DK out there. The hero power is 6 hp difference every turn. That's the reason you see him being played in every warlock out there (even if it revives only a couple 4/4's without taunt or anything special). The hero power is just THAT good.
On the 2nd place I will put Jaina - because the Lifesteal she gives to all elementals and the ability to generate more of them make her very hard to deal with if you are not a combo deck and the opponent drew her in a timely fashion.
Rexxar is only good if you can't get control of the board and let him get tons of value out of his hero power. But for him to do that - he is basically limited to hero power + play the zombeast. So, if you can single target remove the beast and push dmg to the face he will be forced to pick some suboptimal taunts just to survive and if you repeat that for 1-2 more turns - he is usually dead.
Anduin is okay, but no way near his past glory of the unnerfed Raza. The hero power is good for finishing games with 2x Mindblasts and 3x Hero powers for 16dmg, but all those druids or warriors or big spell mages can easily get out of this range, so he is no way near the power level of the other 4 dks - the 3 mentioned above and ...
Hagatha - in my opinion she is on 3rd place, right after Gul'Dan and Jaina, just because her hero power is a passive and does not require mana to activate. So, you can play you minions and get those freezes or removals for the enemy side of the board. Or some BL or Windfury to close the game if some minion sticks. The 3dmg AoE BC is also a nice board clear which compensates for her high cost.
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“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
Shadowreaper Anduin is not nearly as good as it was before pre Raza the Chained nerf. That's because the damage from your hero power is limited based on your hand size (and if you can't draw quickly, that's quite limited damage for a meta where most decks can generate armour or heal), and managing the mana can be clunky. You can use the HP to try to control the board or shoot for lethal, but you have to be in a winning position for that to work out. The battlecry is often not enough, because big threats aren't that common in the meta outside Mountain Giant, so if you're losing, the DK often won't help you catch up.
Deathstalker Rexxar crushes midrange decks, and can often outvalue control. It has a decent catchup mechanic due to the attached aoe, so it works from a losing position. Definitely a great DK.
Bloodreaver Gul'dan is amazing. Yes, it requires good demons, but warlock has them, so what's your point? Also, it has the biggest catchup mechanic. Go from an empty board to taunts or charges or even Despicable Dreadlord for psuedo-aoe. Then the hero power creates a 6 health difference every turn, and 3 heal every turn for 2 mana means that if they can't push for lethal soon or combo you, you'll be safely out of range after a few turns of not only clearing their board with the HP, but healing.
Frost Lich Jaina can be huge even from a losing position as well. Creates immediate board presence with a 3/6 that freezes, meaning it can trade up and prevent damange next turn while simulatenously healing. 3/6's are very awkward to remove, and creating them is really easy with various mage cards and smart trading. After a few turns, opponents will have a very awkward time trading, and you'll be able to heal completely back up quite quickly. Oh, and to the OP who says that it needs more good elementals to work: It requires no elemenals to work. The HP being able to generate Water Elementals is enough. BSM runs no elementals other than Arcane Artificer for armour gain, and sometimes Baron Geddon for mass healing and aoe. The DK is still the win condition without any additional elementals in the deck.
Not even going to talk about Thrall, Deathseer. Lost too much synergy, too much rng with badly statted minions in the mix. You can evolve from 1 to 7 cost minions and every minion can be a 1/1.
Scourgelord Garrosh has a flamestrike on a stick for three turns and a synergestic HP. However, losing armour game in the late gain is meh, and the whirlwin synergy is currently very lackluster. Weapon helps catchup, but without armour gain, it's risky. Also, weapon removal can really screw you over.
Malfurion the Pestilent is great because it can create stall and HP on the same turn. Not as good as warlock's HP, not as polarizing as mage's, and much less value than hunter's, but it's a very balanced one that helps druid manage either their board or health very well. I'd argue that it's even better than priest's DK HP, because it's flexible.
Uther of the Ebon Blade is 15 healing on a stick plus 5 armour and improved tokens. Yes, the weapon can catch you up on a lot of health, but if you're losing and the opponent is wide on the board, 9 mana for a 5/3 lifesteal weapon that only trades a single minion at a time is too slow. 2/2 tokens are also not valuable enough in the lategame, and if you're not runnning some exodia combo, you'll never summon 4. More of a win-more card or a card that only helps if you're on parity with your opponent. I like it, but not generating value, weapon only being able to trade one minion at a time, and the biggest benefit being healing is not nearly as good as what some of the other DK's can do.
Valeera the Hollow is gimicky. The stealth gives you one turn to catchup for spending 9 mana for nothing, but rogue doesn't have good aoe's. The HP is only useful if the deck has some sort of gameplan involved, whether that be buffing Kingsbane or milling the opponent. Too deck dependent.
Hagatha the Witch is not a DK but I'll talk about it as well. Creates amazing value and often helps stabilize the board. The ability to maintain card advantage and create value for doing what you would do anyway is amazing, and even shaman, as a non-control deck, can often match control decks for value because of it.
In short, a good DK should be able to make an immediate impact by creating board presence or catching back up. After that, it should help out in the rest of the game by either generating value or threatening infinite damage/healing. If those aren't ticked off, it's either very gimicky, or too slow and hence win-more.
Can we just not compare one Hero card to another for like, forever? There are some many angles how you can compare them and even then they are not comparable. For example you can take it from the perspective of 29 crappy cards+ DK, then Rexxar is obviously the king, followed by Thrall which will change your crappy cards to the ones that cost 3 more and Malfurion that has overall good heropower and battlecry. If we look at it from perspective in the decks, then obviously Kabal Hero cards are broken af. If we look at them form the angle of what only DK card does without the support, then Uther and Valeera are pretty powerfull too. You just can't compare them. Afterall, that is the reason why each of these Deathknights sees plays in one or both competitive formats.
Can we just not compare one Hero card to another for like, forever? There are some many angles how you can compare them and even then they are not comparable. For example you can take it from the perspective of 29 crappy cards+ DK, then Rexxar is obviously the king, followed by Thrall which will change your crappy cards to the ones that cost 3 more and Malfurion that has overall good heropower and battlecry. If we look at it from perspective in the decks, then obviously Kabal Hero cards are broken af. If we look at them form the angle of what only DK card does without the support, then Uther and Valeera are pretty powerfull too. You just can't compare them. Afterall, that is the reason why each of these Deathknights sees plays in one or both competitive formats.
I respectfully disagree. I think it's unreasonable to only compare cards that belong to the same exact niche. Then how would we ever compare cards?
Each DK has a battlecry. We can compare their impact and power level. Each DK has a hero power. We can compare them in terms of flexibility, value, etc. Each DK offers opportunities in terms of synergy. We can compare the potential of the synergies as well as the availability of those synergies.
For instance, are we really not allowed to compare Scourgelord Garrosh and Bloodreaver Gul'dan? I can say that demon synergy is more powerful than whirlwind synergy. I can say that 3 damage and lifestyle does much more in a game than whirlwind. I can say that creating a board that can both be offensive and defensive is often better than equipping an aoe weapon, since it catches up if you're behind and puts you further ahead if you were winning anyway. I just compared two DK'S, and sure, I can't compare them in a perfectly objective way like saying dealing 2 damage is better than dealing 1 damage for the same mana cost, but no one is going to say "Oh I can't say the warlock DK is better than the warrior DK because they cannot he compared, period." Sure, maybe the warrior DK will become better than the warlock DK in the future given new tools, but we can always look at them in perspective of the current support and what they offer.
Had his entire deck not been nerfed then we would still be under the reign of Shadowreaper Anduin. (In Wild)
Thing is, it wasn't Shadowreaper Anduin that was op. It was a zero mana version of his HP that was.
Like with any other card, it needs support. Deathstalker Rexxar is super cool but has never seen any serious play. Bloodreaver Gul’Dan would also be crappy if there were no good demons in the game.
So we are back with: Had the deck not been nerfed, then we would still be under Shadowreaper’s reign.
Had his entire deck not been nerfed then we would still be under the reign of Shadowreaper Anduin. (In Wild)
Thing is, it wasn't Shadowreaper Anduin that was op. It was a zero mana version of his HP that was.
Like with any other card, it needs support. Deathstalker Rexxar is super cool but has never seen any serious play. Bloodreaver Gul’Dan would also be crappy if there were no good demons in the game.
So we are back with: Had the deck not been nerfed, then we would still be under Shadowreaper’s reign.
Yeah you're right. Raza the Chained was insane support for Shadowreaper Anduin because every single card got a battlecry of deal 2 damage attached to it. The default DK hero power is relatively well balanced.
Had his entire deck not been nerfed then we would still be under the reign of Shadowreaper Anduin. (In Wild)
Thing is, it wasn't Shadowreaper Anduin that was op. It was a zero mana version of his HP that was.
Like with any other card, it needs support. Deathstalker Rexxar is super cool but has never seen any serious play. Bloodreaver Gul’Dan would also be crappy if there were no good demons in the game.
So we are back with: Had the deck not been nerfed, then we would still be under Shadowreaper’s reign.
Yeah you're right. Raza the Chained was insane support for Shadowreaper Anduin because every single card got a battlecry of deal 2 damage attached to it. The default DK hero power is relatively well balanced.
True and true :) Or more accurate: I agree and I agree :)
Infinity Lifesteal Water Elementals for 2 mana > nearly everything. The only way to really deny it is not having anything on the board, which few decks can do effectively. Jaina has so many ways to bring something down to 1 health. And you can't even Silence the Lifesteal.
Gul'dan is close second due to the self heal of the hero power and it dealing 3 damage.
DK hunter become very strong with so many beasts with rush, poison and lifesteal, hunter get more tools to survive the midgame.
That said nothing come closer to warlock DK, the tournaments just prove that.
1- Warlock, by far.
2- Mage, hunter, Hagatha draw in this spot, hunter is not powerful like the other two but you have to put the reduced cost in balance too.
3- Priest and druid.
4- Shaman, this one can be the more powerful but lack support, like hunter before the new expansion, alone is not that great.
5- Rogue, paladin and warrior, all 3 sucks terrible when compared with other DK's, lack in battlecry, long time value or is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overcosted making them unplayable, rogue and paladin should cost 8 and warrior hero power must be an addition to armor up, you give 1 damage to all minions AND get 2 armor.
Why ? Because it is IMO the most flexible of the Death Knights. Just look at the other ones :
Deathstalker Rexxar is the best value generator out of the DK in the late game, however it's a little too slow despite having a nice battlecry to control the board and 6 mana cost, and it is dependent on the beast pool. Right now it is good since we're at the start of the rotation and WW brought good beasts, but crappy beasts later on can dilute the pool significantly making it less reliable. Also, losing the 2 face damage can be detrimental if you are missing lethal by little.
Frost Lich Jaina is crazy in the late game just like Rexxar, but she's at times way too slow, does not help you stabilize immediately unless you have elementals on the board, and the opponent can play around the HP to prevent Water Elementals from popping.
Uther of the Ebon Blade is awesome for any Control Paladin, but not only is the archetype not viable right now, but it is also too slow against aggro. The HP is nice but it is easy for the opponent to deal with a 2/2 in the late game.
Shadowreaper Anduin, once a terror prior to the Raza nerf, is now just a good card. Battlecry can swing a game but also be useless, and the HP help you close the game but you lose healing, which is risky against aggro.
Valeera the Hollow can create good combos and buy you an extra turn, however it is too costly against aggro and more often than not the opponent will generate a big board to kill you after you played the DK
Thrall, Deathseer is the fastest of the DK, however it is too dependent on you having many minions on the board and too RNG to be reliable. Not to mention losing the totem generator for a class reliant on buffing a board.
Hagatha the Witch is similar to Rexxar in terms on impact on the board and value generation, even better in this aspect since you don't have to pay anything for the value, however just like Rexxar it is too random to reliably work, too dependent on the Shaman spell pool which can evolve over time to the worse and dilute it.
Bloodreaver Gul'dan is the most impactful DK, often swings a game around and has a crazy HP to boot, however it relies on you having played and killed relevant demons prior to playing him, and he can be too slow at times against faster decks.
Scourgelord Garrosh is great with whirlwind synergy and can easily wipe the enemy board 3 times in a row, however losing the armor generation can bite you in the @ss, and it relies on other cards to realize its full potential.
Malfurion however ? He is fast enough to matter against aggro, especially with ramp, has a flexible Choose one of against every deck, the HP allows you to either survive or press the attack, isn't reliant on other cards to be entirely functional (maybe Fandral, but it's a bonus, not a necessity), and will always stay relevant. The only decks not running him are specific ones reliant on beast synergy. Malfurion may not be the most spectacular, but oh boy is he reliable every time.
Can we just not compare one Hero card to another for like, forever? There are some many angles how you can compare them and even then they are not comparable. For example you can take it from the perspective of 29 crappy cards+ DK, then Rexxar is obviously the king, followed by Thrall which will change your crappy cards to the ones that cost 3 more and Malfurion that has overall good heropower and battlecry. If we look at it from perspective in the decks, then obviously Kabal Hero cards are broken af. If we look at them form the angle of what only DK card does without the support, then Uther and Valeera are pretty powerfull too. You just can't compare them. Afterall, that is the reason why each of these Deathknights sees plays in one or both competitive formats.
I respectfully disagree. I think it's unreasonable to only compare cards that belong to the same exact niche. Then how would we ever compare cards?
Each DK has a battlecry. We can compare their impact and power level. Each DK has a hero power. We can compare them in terms of flexibility, value, etc. Each DK offers opportunities in terms of synergy. We can compare the potential of the synergies as well as the availability of those synergies.
For instance, are we really not allowed to compare Scourgelord Garrosh and Bloodreaver Gul'dan? I can say that demon synergy is more powerful than whirlwind synergy. I can say that 3 damage and lifestyle does much more in a game than whirlwind. I can say that creating a board that can both be offensive and defensive is often better than equipping an aoe weapon, since it catches up if you're behind and puts you further ahead if you were winning anyway. I just compared two DK'S, and sure, I can't compare them in a perfectly objective way like saying dealing 2 damage is better than dealing 1 damage for the same mana cost, but no one is going to say "Oh I can't say the warlock DK is better than the warrior DK because they cannot he compared, period." Sure, maybe the warrior DK will become better than the warlock DK in the future given new tools, but we can always look at them in perspective of the current support and what they offer.
I can see and understand the points that you are making but I'm still not convinced. While we can make an comparasment based on the current meta and synergies altogether with their battlecries and hero powers, we still cant compare them as a standalone cards. Because as a standalone cards, they are not comparable. Standalone Guldan is pretty shitty card. Standalone Anduin is pretty shitty card. Standalone Valeera is pretty shitty card. Yet all of them are see play and some of them are even the best in some categories. Guldan is obviously broken with Demons, while Valeera is powerfull with any cards. Rexxar as a standalone card can go everywhere. Then there are hero cards like Anduin and Hagatha that benefit from having cards in your deck. Then there are cards like Garosh which can be board swingy and benefit from damage synergy like Patrons. Every Hero card is powerfull and there is a reason that its played in its class. The strongest one can't be defined simply because there are too many categories and one Hero card cant be the best in all of them. Like if it's standalone card: Rexxar,Malfurion and Uther together with jaina wins. Is it card that relies around synergy and stuff? Then Guldan, Anduin and other ones. And so on and on in every category that you can possibly think of.
Personally, I think it's either Deathstalker Rexxar and Shadowreaper Anduin, simply because Bloodreaver Gul'dan needs good demons to be good, and Frost Lich Jaina needs a couple more elementals to work, and I'm rating these based on individual strengths, and Build-A-Beast really can't be out-valued, and Voidform is very useful. So what do you guys think (I didn't put in a poll since there weren't enough answer slots)?
Rexxar comes out on top. Followed closely by Jaina.
Lifesteal Water Elementals are insane though when you get them going. Malfurion is also really good. But as far as Rexxar goes, I would agree with you. It also has the advantage of being very cheap at 6 mana and the aoe it has wipes littles weenies away. Witchwood made Rexxar even better than it was before.
In an hypothetical scenario where the dk is the only card in you deck Rexxar would be the best standalone card
Top deck is cheat
I can't disagree more with this statement. Gul'dan is by far the best DK out there. The hero power is 6 hp difference every turn. That's the reason you see him being played in every warlock out there (even if it revives only a couple 4/4's without taunt or anything special). The hero power is just THAT good.
On the 2nd place I will put Jaina - because the Lifesteal she gives to all elementals and the ability to generate more of them make her very hard to deal with if you are not a combo deck and the opponent drew her in a timely fashion.
Rexxar is only good if you can't get control of the board and let him get tons of value out of his hero power. But for him to do that - he is basically limited to hero power + play the zombeast. So, if you can single target remove the beast and push dmg to the face he will be forced to pick some suboptimal taunts just to survive and if you repeat that for 1-2 more turns - he is usually dead.
Anduin is okay, but no way near his past glory of the unnerfed Raza. The hero power is good for finishing games with 2x Mindblasts and 3x Hero powers for 16dmg, but all those druids or warriors or big spell mages can easily get out of this range, so he is no way near the power level of the other 4 dks - the 3 mentioned above and ...
Hagatha - in my opinion she is on 3rd place, right after Gul'Dan and Jaina, just because her hero power is a passive and does not require mana to activate. So, you can play you minions and get those freezes or removals for the enemy side of the board. Or some BL or Windfury to close the game if some minion sticks. The 3dmg AoE BC is also a nice board clear which compensates for her high cost.
“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
Shadowreaper Anduin is not nearly as good as it was before pre Raza the Chained nerf. That's because the damage from your hero power is limited based on your hand size (and if you can't draw quickly, that's quite limited damage for a meta where most decks can generate armour or heal), and managing the mana can be clunky. You can use the HP to try to control the board or shoot for lethal, but you have to be in a winning position for that to work out. The battlecry is often not enough, because big threats aren't that common in the meta outside Mountain Giant, so if you're losing, the DK often won't help you catch up.
Deathstalker Rexxar crushes midrange decks, and can often outvalue control. It has a decent catchup mechanic due to the attached aoe, so it works from a losing position. Definitely a great DK.
Bloodreaver Gul'dan is amazing. Yes, it requires good demons, but warlock has them, so what's your point? Also, it has the biggest catchup mechanic. Go from an empty board to taunts or charges or even Despicable Dreadlord for psuedo-aoe. Then the hero power creates a 6 health difference every turn, and 3 heal every turn for 2 mana means that if they can't push for lethal soon or combo you, you'll be safely out of range after a few turns of not only clearing their board with the HP, but healing.
Frost Lich Jaina can be huge even from a losing position as well. Creates immediate board presence with a 3/6 that freezes, meaning it can trade up and prevent damange next turn while simulatenously healing. 3/6's are very awkward to remove, and creating them is really easy with various mage cards and smart trading. After a few turns, opponents will have a very awkward time trading, and you'll be able to heal completely back up quite quickly. Oh, and to the OP who says that it needs more good elementals to work: It requires no elemenals to work. The HP being able to generate Water Elementals is enough. BSM runs no elementals other than Arcane Artificer for armour gain, and sometimes Baron Geddon for mass healing and aoe. The DK is still the win condition without any additional elementals in the deck.
Not even going to talk about Thrall, Deathseer. Lost too much synergy, too much rng with badly statted minions in the mix. You can evolve from 1 to 7 cost minions and every minion can be a 1/1.
Scourgelord Garrosh has a flamestrike on a stick for three turns and a synergestic HP. However, losing armour game in the late gain is meh, and the whirlwin synergy is currently very lackluster. Weapon helps catchup, but without armour gain, it's risky. Also, weapon removal can really screw you over.
Malfurion the Pestilent is great because it can create stall and HP on the same turn. Not as good as warlock's HP, not as polarizing as mage's, and much less value than hunter's, but it's a very balanced one that helps druid manage either their board or health very well. I'd argue that it's even better than priest's DK HP, because it's flexible.
Uther of the Ebon Blade is 15 healing on a stick plus 5 armour and improved tokens. Yes, the weapon can catch you up on a lot of health, but if you're losing and the opponent is wide on the board, 9 mana for a 5/3 lifesteal weapon that only trades a single minion at a time is too slow. 2/2 tokens are also not valuable enough in the lategame, and if you're not runnning some exodia combo, you'll never summon 4. More of a win-more card or a card that only helps if you're on parity with your opponent. I like it, but not generating value, weapon only being able to trade one minion at a time, and the biggest benefit being healing is not nearly as good as what some of the other DK's can do.
Valeera the Hollow is gimicky. The stealth gives you one turn to catchup for spending 9 mana for nothing, but rogue doesn't have good aoe's. The HP is only useful if the deck has some sort of gameplan involved, whether that be buffing Kingsbane or milling the opponent. Too deck dependent.
Hagatha the Witch is not a DK but I'll talk about it as well. Creates amazing value and often helps stabilize the board. The ability to maintain card advantage and create value for doing what you would do anyway is amazing, and even shaman, as a non-control deck, can often match control decks for value because of it.
In short, a good DK should be able to make an immediate impact by creating board presence or catching back up. After that, it should help out in the rest of the game by either generating value or threatening infinite damage/healing. If those aren't ticked off, it's either very gimicky, or too slow and hence win-more.
My list would look like this:
1:Bloodreaver Gul'dan
2:Frost Lich Jaina.
3: Malfurion the Pestilent
4: Deathstalker Rexxar (barely loses out to druid imo, could go both ways)
5: Shadowreaper Anduin
6: Scourgelord Garrosh
7: Valeera the Hollow
8: Uther of the Ebon Blade
9: Thrall, Deathseer.
If I were to include Hagatha the Witch in my list, I would put it at number three above Malfurion the Pestilent.
I welcome people to tell me how abosolutley wrong I am. This is just a list I came up with, curious what other people think.
Jaina, my reason is simple every mage dungeon run where i pick Jaina. i win, woth other Dks i have mixed or bad (hi thrall) results.
I forget, which is the one that summons 5 free doomguards when you play it? I think that might be the OP one.
Had his entire deck not been nerfed then we would still be under the reign of Shadowreaper Anduin. (In Wild)
Unpopular choice: Valeera. She is so awesome and her hero power is unique. Such a cool concept and fitting for rogue.
Thing is, it wasn't Shadowreaper Anduin that was op. It was a zero mana version of his HP that was.
Can we just not compare one Hero card to another for like, forever? There are some many angles how you can compare them and even then they are not comparable. For example you can take it from the perspective of 29 crappy cards+ DK, then Rexxar is obviously the king, followed by Thrall which will change your crappy cards to the ones that cost 3 more and Malfurion that has overall good heropower and battlecry. If we look at it from perspective in the decks, then obviously Kabal Hero cards are broken af. If we look at them form the angle of what only DK card does without the support, then Uther and Valeera are pretty powerfull too. You just can't compare them. Afterall, that is the reason why each of these Deathknights sees plays in one or both competitive formats.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I respectfully disagree. I think it's unreasonable to only compare cards that belong to the same exact niche. Then how would we ever compare cards?
Each DK has a battlecry. We can compare their impact and power level. Each DK has a hero power. We can compare them in terms of flexibility, value, etc. Each DK offers opportunities in terms of synergy. We can compare the potential of the synergies as well as the availability of those synergies.
For instance, are we really not allowed to compare Scourgelord Garrosh and Bloodreaver Gul'dan? I can say that demon synergy is more powerful than whirlwind synergy. I can say that 3 damage and lifestyle does much more in a game than whirlwind. I can say that creating a board that can both be offensive and defensive is often better than equipping an aoe weapon, since it catches up if you're behind and puts you further ahead if you were winning anyway. I just compared two DK'S, and sure, I can't compare them in a perfectly objective way like saying dealing 2 damage is better than dealing 1 damage for the same mana cost, but no one is going to say "Oh I can't say the warlock DK is better than the warrior DK because they cannot he compared, period." Sure, maybe the warrior DK will become better than the warlock DK in the future given new tools, but we can always look at them in perspective of the current support and what they offer.
Like with any other card, it needs support. Deathstalker Rexxar is super cool but has never seen any serious play. Bloodreaver Gul’Dan would also be crappy if there were no good demons in the game.
So we are back with: Had the deck not been nerfed, then we would still be under Shadowreaper’s reign.
Yeah you're right. Raza the Chained was insane support for Shadowreaper Anduin because every single card got a battlecry of deal 2 damage attached to it. The default DK hero power is relatively well balanced.
True and true :) Or more accurate: I agree and I agree :)
Infinity Lifesteal Water Elementals for 2 mana > nearly everything. The only way to really deny it is not having anything on the board, which few decks can do effectively. Jaina has so many ways to bring something down to 1 health. And you can't even Silence the Lifesteal.
Gul'dan is close second due to the self heal of the hero power and it dealing 3 damage.
DK hunter become very strong with so many beasts with rush, poison and lifesteal, hunter get more tools to survive the midgame.
That said nothing come closer to warlock DK, the tournaments just prove that.
1- Warlock, by far.
2- Mage, hunter, Hagatha draw in this spot, hunter is not powerful like the other two but you have to put the reduced cost in balance too.
3- Priest and druid.
4- Shaman, this one can be the more powerful but lack support, like hunter before the new expansion, alone is not that great.
5- Rogue, paladin and warrior, all 3 sucks terrible when compared with other DK's, lack in battlecry, long time value or is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overcosted making them unplayable, rogue and paladin should cost 8 and warrior hero power must be an addition to armor up, you give 1 damage to all minions AND get 2 armor.
Best DK IMO : Malfurion the Pestilent
Why ? Because it is IMO the most flexible of the Death Knights. Just look at the other ones :
Deathstalker Rexxar is the best value generator out of the DK in the late game, however it's a little too slow despite having a nice battlecry to control the board and 6 mana cost, and it is dependent on the beast pool. Right now it is good since we're at the start of the rotation and WW brought good beasts, but crappy beasts later on can dilute the pool significantly making it less reliable. Also, losing the 2 face damage can be detrimental if you are missing lethal by little.
Frost Lich Jaina is crazy in the late game just like Rexxar, but she's at times way too slow, does not help you stabilize immediately unless you have elementals on the board, and the opponent can play around the HP to prevent Water Elementals from popping.
Uther of the Ebon Blade is awesome for any Control Paladin, but not only is the archetype not viable right now, but it is also too slow against aggro. The HP is nice but it is easy for the opponent to deal with a 2/2 in the late game.
Shadowreaper Anduin, once a terror prior to the Raza nerf, is now just a good card. Battlecry can swing a game but also be useless, and the HP help you close the game but you lose healing, which is risky against aggro.
Valeera the Hollow can create good combos and buy you an extra turn, however it is too costly against aggro and more often than not the opponent will generate a big board to kill you after you played the DK
Thrall, Deathseer is the fastest of the DK, however it is too dependent on you having many minions on the board and too RNG to be reliable. Not to mention losing the totem generator for a class reliant on buffing a board.
Hagatha the Witch is similar to Rexxar in terms on impact on the board and value generation, even better in this aspect since you don't have to pay anything for the value, however just like Rexxar it is too random to reliably work, too dependent on the Shaman spell pool which can evolve over time to the worse and dilute it.
Bloodreaver Gul'dan is the most impactful DK, often swings a game around and has a crazy HP to boot, however it relies on you having played and killed relevant demons prior to playing him, and he can be too slow at times against faster decks.
Scourgelord Garrosh is great with whirlwind synergy and can easily wipe the enemy board 3 times in a row, however losing the armor generation can bite you in the @ss, and it relies on other cards to realize its full potential.
Malfurion however ? He is fast enough to matter against aggro, especially with ramp, has a flexible Choose one of against every deck, the HP allows you to either survive or press the attack, isn't reliant on other cards to be entirely functional (maybe Fandral, but it's a bonus, not a necessity), and will always stay relevant. The only decks not running him are specific ones reliant on beast synergy. Malfurion may not be the most spectacular, but oh boy is he reliable every time.
I can see and understand the points that you are making but I'm still not convinced. While we can make an comparasment based on the current meta and synergies altogether with their battlecries and hero powers, we still cant compare them as a standalone cards. Because as a standalone cards, they are not comparable. Standalone Guldan is pretty shitty card. Standalone Anduin is pretty shitty card. Standalone Valeera is pretty shitty card. Yet all of them are see play and some of them are even the best in some categories. Guldan is obviously broken with Demons, while Valeera is powerfull with any cards. Rexxar as a standalone card can go everywhere. Then there are hero cards like Anduin and Hagatha that benefit from having cards in your deck. Then there are cards like Garosh which can be board swingy and benefit from damage synergy like Patrons. Every Hero card is powerfull and there is a reason that its played in its class. The strongest one can't be defined simply because there are too many categories and one Hero card cant be the best in all of them. Like if it's standalone card: Rexxar,Malfurion and Uther together with jaina wins. Is it card that relies around synergy and stuff? Then Guldan, Anduin and other ones. And so on and on in every category that you can possibly think of.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks