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One thing is for sure imo, Blizzard thinking that nobody would complain and that such complains would take such a huge wave of comments on reddit twitter etc is just mindboggling. I mean from the fact that she has a text like Yogg to the fact that the devs intended her to be Pre-Nerf Yogg and now isnt its incredible that they would think this change would go unoticed.
btw im seeing claims for Jungle giants and Lynessa to be refunded and Im actually inclined that Lynessa should indeed be refunded as well.
Let the games begin!
Do you have control over what Tess does?
Yes.
You can choose to not play any spells you received from the opponents class that do more than 6 damage total, that silence, transform, destroy etc. before you play tess. This way, you are guaranteed she won't stop casting.
But you cannot convince me that having to play that way versus not having to play that way doesn't make the card worse. This change made the card worse, and I don't get how that's not obvious to everyone.
Whether or not Blizzard should give dust every time they make changes to a card? That's up to them and I'm not going to complain if they don't. But I'd consider it dangerous to not do so. Some people (like me) actually do spend money on this game. Some people have spent some of that money on Tess Greymane. I'm not inclined to buy something knowing it may get worse at any time. Since I'm already not that excited about the witchwood, things like these really do factor into my decision to spend money on this game again or not.
My contribution to this thread is done, since my experience matters less than yours.
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i dont think anybody is disputing that argument. it is very true. it just doesnt nullifie the fact that her power level is lower cause of this and usually reducing a cards power even by a micro size nerf is a nerf and usually they handout dust for that. Its Blizzard choice to refund but not seeing it as a nerf is just ludicrious. if all of a sudden im 0,1mm shorter that wont impact my ability to reach certain stuff in 99.99999% of the time but indeed makes me shorter. Same with Tess she is weaker=nerfed in HS history
It may cross the line of what's technically defined as a nerf but its so fringe that it does not warrant free dust.
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So the only nerfs worthy of refunds are for meta defining cards like Yogg, Call to Arms and such?
true true, but ive also read about the fact that devs said Tess worked as pre-nerf Yogg and now its post nerf yogg so thats kind of betraying the customers confidence on the devs, not to mention theres a LOT of paying customers that feel screwed with this. mainly cause they were outright lied to or the teams beta testing is incredibly low as Tess should have been for consistency purposes working as Post nerf Yogg from the start.
So we have a team that betrayed paying customers and reduced a cards lvl that was already low tier, add that the ranks and ranks of f2p base that have the card either packed or crafted and of course they demand that 1600 dust cause for them (myself included) is like a can of water in the middle of the desert. Only by going f2p can u feel the pain. I was a paying customer for 6 months splashing around 40 euros per week didnt even do the daily quests cause i didnt need that but now holly shit first thing i do each day is those daily gold quest.
it hurts it really does
Dust refunds are warranted when the fundamental function of the card is changed. This is not one of those cases.
edit: 'fundamental function' includes mana cost changes, as those are a direct power decrease, which in turn changes the way they function.
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So Yog shouldn't have been refunded?
well in Yoggs case u didnt know what he was gonna cast so he could pyroblast enemy for the win but if before he would poly himself and then pyroblast enemy that would feel like cheating. this way he polys himself and doesnt do nothing else. Tess u actually do know what shes casting and if she polys herself then pyroblasts enemy face its the same type of unfair feeling. I understand what Kaladin means here.
Doestn change the fact its a nerf to Tess tho
Yogg was changed in a big way. What pre nerf Yogg did was cast as many spells as you loaded up, often resetting the board, gaining you life, and summoning minions, regardless of what he did to himself. Post nerf Yogg, there was a sweet spot around 6 to 10 spells because after that, it was increasingly likely Yogg just died. The end result of what Yogg did in most cases was fundamentally changed.
The end result of Tess in most cases remains untouched.
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I agree that Yogg was much more powerful and more fundamentally changed.
But in essence, Tess can do the same thing: Depending on what you get, pre-"improvement", you could reset the board, gain life and summon minions regardless of what she did to herself. Now, as with post-nerf Yogg, she can't because what she ends up doing to herself matters, specially if it happens first. When it previously didn't. Worse, as she was specifically said to be intended to work as pre-nerf Yogg.
Fringe or not (based on what data?), she is worse because of these changes.
The chance of you getting a card that can screw up Tess is very small, not to mention is completely under your control to add that to the card pool or not. The 'essence' of Tess is not even close to similar to Yogg.
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holly shit dude did u take the time to crunch those figures or did u get it in somekind of website\app?
cause if u did those numbers by yourself than i commend u on it. Although that leaves a question hovering around: why did u take all that trouble for? doest it matter that hard that ur opinion his sound with a good basis, or is there an underlying reason, a more sinister one at that?
Tess was nerfed, and it doesn't matter how fringe it is, it is still less powerful. It was intended to work as pre-nerf Yogg, and they now changed it to nerfed Yogg. There are several people who crafted Tess thinking this would stay the same as they were publicly told it would work like that, but it doesn't work like that, which you could argue to be deception.
Personally I'm not sure why this is a debate, people crafted a card thinking it would work one way, but it didn't work that way because it got nerfed. It's not what they crafted for. A dust refund would be obvious considering it is a straight up nerf, unless Blizzard changed their refund policies, which would also be bad considering it would be unannounced.
Did it by hand because I was curious to see if the math supported what I suspected to be true.
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nice i like the commitment, so u must be good at math, therefor u must be good at HS. The creator of Magic was a math teacher i think, the circle is now complete ;)
still a nerf btw (sorry i had to say it ahah)
Still a nerf indeed...
Using his numbers, even with Mage hiving a 6% chance of getting a spell that could kill Tess (let's say Polymorph), then even with 7 minions on board she still has a ~14% to 2% chances (14 minions) of hitting herself with it and not casting anything else.
The numbers seem low to warrant a "fringe case", "do not cast X if you need Tess to do Y and not die" but do you know what the number for all this was before the "gameplay improvement"? Zero.
Strong argument here indeed. Kaladin the ball is yours, take it away
The problem is not just about a nerf, but the fact a card was changed. Some people dedicated several hours/days of their life to craft a card that "they wanted", and if the card "they wanted" changed in any way, then there should be a refunded.
Rob Dawg