So untill yesterday I was just fine with all these spiteful nonsense out there as it is not something you can't beat (obviously if they don't go Keleseth t2, Spiteful t6 and t7). Untill today...
I've had this game in middle Legend, not a big deal I was far from more than 1 HCT point so I was just chilling with homebrew decks. I was playing against Spiteful Druid. T6 Spiteful Summoner into Deathwing, I tried to place taunts in its way and hopefully topdeck my Hadronox. However, he played Wild Growth on whatever turn 11 or 12 and I was like WTF. I didn't draw my win condition so I lost, not a big deal, it happens in Hearthstone. But I was curious so I added him into friendlist to ask him for a purpose of that Wild Growth.
Well and now the fun part. He told me that he doesn't have Keleseth so he replaced it with Wild Growth ... I mean really?
How many of you guys who never hit a Legend would never do such a stupid thing. I don't think any 2-drop can match powerlevel of Keleseth, but making your Spiteful which is basically your wincondition summoning Doomsayer?
I don't think Hearthstone is the most skillfull card game out there, and if you don't agree you should try mother of all, MtG. But, I always thought being good in hearthstone needs you to think. You can win one game even against a pro player but if you compare winrate after 1000 games you will be far behind. And now there is a spiteful summoner which, i hate this word, is an autopilot deck. If you are a good programmer and you will code a software which will play the highest possible card each turn, the result will be pretty much the same.
We need to address this issue to Blizzard somehow, not because spiteful decks are incredibly OP, they are not, winrate is somewhere on tier 1/2 border, but it is just the most antiskill deck that has ever been in Hearthstone.
no meta decks take skill right now if you have not noticed.
I don't agree with you. Even most hated Cubelocks needs high amount of skill and game knowledge to play it properly. Not speaking about other control decks. And yeah If you think aggro deck don't require thinking you are wrong. You have way less possible plays to think about than with control decks, that's true, but even small good decisions make those winrate percents better.
Grinding ladder or competetive HS in nutshell is not about that single game where you highroll or not. It's about hundreds/thousands of games which tear good players apart of those casual.
Your complaint doesn't really make much sense to me. Did he climb to legend using Spiteful Summoner? Sounds like he built the deck recently, Maybe he made a dumb mistake building the deck (I know I have before making Keleseth or Spell Hunter decks) but there isn't anything in your post that indicates he climbed to legend using the deck or even climbed anywhere at all besides screwing around in a match or two. How does this scenario support your hyperbolic claim that the Spiteful Summoner archetype is "the most antiskill deck that has ever been in Hearthstone"?
Your complaint doesn't really make much sense to me. Did he climb to legend using Spiteful Summoner? Sounds like he built the deck recently, Maybe he made a dumb mistake building the deck (I know I have before making Keleseth or Spell Hunter decks) but there isn't anything in your post that indicates he climbed to legend using the deck or even climbed anywhere at all besides screwing around in a match or two. How does this scenario support your hyperbolic claim that the Spiteful Summoner archetype is "the most antiskill deck that has ever been in Hearthstone"?
If you are Spiteful Druid player please don't take it personaly. I fully understand it, it is just a powerful deck in this meta and everybody wants to win. After all, if you check HCT Taipei Decklist, many, if not most of players has Spiteful Druid in lineup.
All I wanted to say is that this card allows players with little game knowledge to climb ranks which otherwise would be out of range for them. Yes, he said, he climbed Legend with it, he built it just when rotation kicked in and since he had seen a deck on hsreply where he missed only one card he decided to build it and managed to climbed 12-Legend with it. In my opinion it is just unfair against those who plays/build other deck archetypes because just everything and I mean everything is harder to build or pilot. If you have only one deck that is easier to pilot bring it in and we can discuss it.
I've been in Hearthstone since Beta and in my opinion curvedecks are just the easiest decks to pilot. Spiteful Summoner whatever deck is just a king of all curvedecks.
Deck without spells just with random minions which do "spell stuffs" like AoE, theft, mana cheat, freeze etc. and pray for highroll seems really unhealthy to me from a design perspective, don't you think so?
I think you should consider yourself lucky. He had a 33% chance of a 2 drop. That's more than most of us get! We all have to live with a 100% chance of a 10 drop.
He isn't salty for losing, and he probably would be happy that his opponent put in such a bad card replacement for Keleseth. His point is that the very fact that someone so bad at deckbuilding that he would replace a Keleseth with Wild Growth IN A SPITEFUL DECK could be at legend. It's indicative of the ease of climbing with certain decks, which means skill is not rewarded as much as netdecking, big collections, and luck.
There had always been deck that can be played by a bot to Legend (think of old Pirate Warrior, just to say one) and Spiteful archetype is one of them: play on curve, hit face, hope in highroll. Maybe some of them may requires little more decision making than others, but all have very little thinking involved in comparison to what is commonly called "Control".
That's is how HS is, unfortunatly. So there is no chance of seeing this type of decks disappear one day or another: when one of them rotate out or become underperforming then another will pop up.
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For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
no meta decks take skill right now if you have not noticed.
I don't agree with you. Even most hated Cubelocks needs high amount of skill and game knowledge to play it properly. Not speaking about other control decks. And yeah If you think aggro deck don't require thinking you are wrong. You have way less possible plays to think about than with control decks, that's true, but even small good decisions make those winrate percents better.
Grinding ladder or competetive HS in nutshell is not about that single game where you highroll or not. It's about hundreds/thousands of games which tear good players apart of those casual.
You're pretty defensive.. Literally no reason for their comment to invalidate you THAT much.
This game has gone through some bad metas. But right now we're sitting with cards which make Dr Boom and Sludge Belcher look like absolute shite.
I get your point but I think it's an issue with the game itself rather than just that deck. I was playing against a Hadronox druid that stupidly ran 8 other Beasts in the deck. It didn't matter though because both Witching Hours rezzed Hadronox anyways. I tried to add him after the game but he didn't respond.
The problem is that this game is not punishing enough with mistakes. Design should be carried in a direction that allows skillful players to rise to the top due to hard decks that are practically guaranteed to make you lose if you make a mistake but that have a very high winrate if you play perfectly. Such decks did exist in the past (Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage, Patron Warrior) but they have all been nerfed, rotated or power creeped by newer easier decks.
Hearthstone should be a casual game and decent easy decks should exist but the skill ceiling of the game has to rise to allow better players to have considerably higher winrates when playing against average ones. Just compare it to every other esport where a pro would win all the time against a normal player. A pro Hearthstone player might have a 60-65% winrate tops and that shows that skillful play isn't rewarded enough in this game.
I have to agree with you OP, I played spiteful priest back when I had no dust or cards in the game because it was competitive, but the whole play style of the deck is pretty autopilot and bores me to death tbh.. id happily see spiteful summoner leave the game, it does nothing for the game and takes very little ability to successfully pilot
There had always been deck that can be played by a bot to Legend (think of old Pirate Warrior, just to say one) and Spiteful archetype is one of them: play on curve, hit face, hope in highroll.
Actually I think that last years' Pirate Warrior was more about decisions than Spiteful decks are now. Your gameplan was to burn your opponent so you had to decide if you want to go all-in with weapon, contest board, make value trades etc. Those are usual decisions with aggresive decks. Spitefuls' plan is to highroll and it almost doesn't matter whether you go face, trade or whatever.
I think you should consider yourself lucky. He had a 33% chance of a 2 drop. That's more than most of us get! We all have to live with a 100% chance of a 10 drop.
He isn't salty for losing, and he probably would be happy that his opponent put in such a bad card replacement for Keleseth. His point is that the very fact that someone so bad at deckbuilding that he would replace a Keleseth with Wild Growth IN A SPITEFUL DECK could be at legend. It's indicative of the ease of climbing with certain decks, which means skill is not rewarded as much as netdecking, big collections, and luck.
Sorry but I take issue with the level of skill required in a card game. It's primarily a luck based game. It requires a high time investment to get legend and a deck that wins slightly more than half your games. If you get better draw than your opponent you'll beat anyone in the world. That's the inherent aspect of any card game. You cannot "skill" a card out of your deck.
In fact if this game was more predictable and skill based no one would play it because it would be boring both to play and watch.
The deck isn't even that bad with a wild regrowth in it. There's a fairly high chance you'll draw it before playing spiteful summoner and if get it in the opening hand even better.
You can indeed "skill" a card out of your deck. You know exactly how many cards you have left in your deck and how many of them you want to draw. So you can count the odds whether it is worth for you to rely on it or not.
I think paladin is a bigger problem than spiteful decks right now.
Paladin is super powerful, that's a different story. I really think it would use a nerfs in some way. But there are lot of decisions to make in those decks even if it doesn't look like it. Starting with mulligan. Besides CtA you need a very different cards in your starting hand for almost every matchup. And sometimes you don't even want CtA if you don't have cards in opening that can contest the board early on against for example Burn Mage. My point wasn't to address a deck that is broken, but rather something that has almost as high skill floor as skill ceiling.
Amm Luck. This isn't something, which only applies to Spiteful.
You can' justify it as "luck" if it comes to someone who ranked 12 - Legend without game knowledge. The issue is somewhere else. In 400+ games which are usualy required for climbing this high is luck basically non existent. It is about powerlevel of what you are playing, knowledge of current meta and your piloting. Climbing with Spiteful decks seems like to be only about powerlevel of the deck nothing else.
I wonder how that guy reached Legend withiout Keleseth. I got kind of stack (with low win rate) at Rank 10 last season with Spiteful Druid. Played about 8-12 games at Rank 10 without reaching Rank 9.
Keleseth does not make or break Spiteful Druid. It is a win-more card. Now if this guy actually had Keleseth, and chose to use an extra Wild Growth, that would be a pretty ridiculous think to do. But choosing not to craft it ... to each their own.
I cannot think of a single game (and Lord knows I saw plenty of them last season), where I was able to effectively deal with the minions pulled from Spiteful's, but still lost ... regardless if Keleseth was played or not.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
I wonder how that guy reached Legend withiout Keleseth. I got kind of stack (with low win rate) at Rank 10 last season with Spiteful Druid. Played about 8-12 games at Rank 10 without reaching Rank 9.
If I had to guess, he probably got there earlier in the season. The power of Spiteful Druid seemed like it caught a lot of people off guard early on, but later in the season, most decks were prepared to deal with it.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
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So untill yesterday I was just fine with all these spiteful nonsense out there as it is not something you can't beat (obviously if they don't go Keleseth t2, Spiteful t6 and t7). Untill today...
I've had this game in middle Legend, not a big deal I was far from more than 1 HCT point so I was just chilling with homebrew decks. I was playing against Spiteful Druid. T6 Spiteful Summoner into Deathwing, I tried to place taunts in its way and hopefully topdeck my Hadronox. However, he played Wild Growth on whatever turn 11 or 12 and I was like WTF. I didn't draw my win condition so I lost, not a big deal, it happens in Hearthstone. But I was curious so I added him into friendlist to ask him for a purpose of that Wild Growth.
Well and now the fun part. He told me that he doesn't have Keleseth so he replaced it with Wild Growth ... I mean really?
How many of you guys who never hit a Legend would never do such a stupid thing. I don't think any 2-drop can match powerlevel of Keleseth, but making your Spiteful which is basically your wincondition summoning Doomsayer?
I don't think Hearthstone is the most skillfull card game out there, and if you don't agree you should try mother of all, MtG. But, I always thought being good in hearthstone needs you to think. You can win one game even against a pro player but if you compare winrate after 1000 games you will be far behind. And now there is a spiteful summoner which, i hate this word, is an autopilot deck. If you are a good programmer and you will code a software which will play the highest possible card each turn, the result will be pretty much the same.
We need to address this issue to Blizzard somehow, not because spiteful decks are incredibly OP, they are not, winrate is somewhere on tier 1/2 border, but it is just the most antiskill deck that has ever been in Hearthstone.
no meta decks take skill right now if you have not noticed.
Your complaint doesn't really make much sense to me. Did he climb to legend using Spiteful Summoner? Sounds like he built the deck recently, Maybe he made a dumb mistake building the deck (I know I have before making Keleseth or Spell Hunter decks) but there isn't anything in your post that indicates he climbed to legend using the deck or even climbed anywhere at all besides screwing around in a match or two. How does this scenario support your hyperbolic claim that the Spiteful Summoner archetype is "the most antiskill deck that has ever been in Hearthstone"?
There had always been deck that can be played by a bot to Legend (think of old Pirate Warrior, just to say one) and Spiteful archetype is one of them: play on curve, hit face, hope in highroll. Maybe some of them may requires little more decision making than others, but all have very little thinking involved in comparison to what is commonly called "Control".
That's is how HS is, unfortunatly. So there is no chance of seeing this type of decks disappear one day or another: when one of them rotate out or become underperforming then another will pop up.
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
I get your point but I think it's an issue with the game itself rather than just that deck. I was playing against a Hadronox druid that stupidly ran 8 other Beasts in the deck. It didn't matter though because both Witching Hours rezzed Hadronox anyways. I tried to add him after the game but he didn't respond.
The problem is that this game is not punishing enough with mistakes. Design should be carried in a direction that allows skillful players to rise to the top due to hard decks that are practically guaranteed to make you lose if you make a mistake but that have a very high winrate if you play perfectly. Such decks did exist in the past (Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage, Patron Warrior) but they have all been nerfed, rotated or power creeped by newer easier decks.
Hearthstone should be a casual game and decent easy decks should exist but the skill ceiling of the game has to rise to allow better players to have considerably higher winrates when playing against average ones. Just compare it to every other esport where a pro would win all the time against a normal player. A pro Hearthstone player might have a 60-65% winrate tops and that shows that skillful play isn't rewarded enough in this game.
Check out my Hearthstone expansion: The Shifting Sands
Amm Luck. This isn't something, which only applies to Spiteful.
I have to agree with you OP, I played spiteful priest back when I had no dust or cards in the game because it was competitive, but the whole play style of the deck is pretty autopilot and bores me to death tbh.. id happily see spiteful summoner leave the game, it does nothing for the game and takes very little ability to successfully pilot
I wonder how that guy reached Legend withiout Keleseth. I got kind of stack (with low win rate) at Rank 10 last season with Spiteful Druid. Played about 8-12 games at Rank 10 without reaching Rank 9.
you guys should condense your spiteful whine posts in a single convinient place that talks only about that, like my nerf charge post: https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/77139-charge-the-mechanic-should-be-nerfed?page=9
I actually disagree.
Keleseth does not make or break Spiteful Druid. It is a win-more card. Now if this guy actually had Keleseth, and chose to use an extra Wild Growth, that would be a pretty ridiculous think to do. But choosing not to craft it ... to each their own.
I cannot think of a single game (and Lord knows I saw plenty of them last season), where I was able to effectively deal with the minions pulled from Spiteful's, but still lost ... regardless if Keleseth was played or not.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile