Disclaimer: I am well aware that I am far from the first person to suggest that some cards should be nerfed, and I'm also well aware that it is a bit too early in the new expansion to break out the pitchforks. But I still wanted to put my thoughts out there of how/why I'd change a few problematic cards in the meta. I also wanted to make this thread as an exercise for myself in thinking critically about game balance. I don't claim to be an authority over anything, and I welcome constructive criticism. Please note that I am assuming that all these nerfs would occur together, meaning each nerf shouldn't be solely considered by itself. Thank you for reading! :)
Why: Breaking down the effects of Ultimate Infestation, the card is worth well above 10 mana. Dealing 5 damage is worth ~4 mana, drawing 5 cards is worth ~9 mana, gaining 5 armor is worth ~1 mana, and summoning a 5/5 is worth ~4.5 mana. All together that means you get about 18.5 mana of value for 10 mana. This is just absurd. But by changing all the 5s to 4s, the card gets much more reasonble while still being very powerful. Dealing 4 damage is worth ~3 mana, drawing 4 cards is worth ~7 mana, gaining 4 armor is worth ~0.8 mana, and summoning a 4/4 is worth ~3.5 mana. All together that's 14.3 mana of value for 10 mana, which feels much more reasonable.
2) Call to Arms How I'd Change it: Increase the mana cost to (5).
Why: The issue I've had with Call to Arms is that it's power is just way above the curve. Let's break it down a bit. In the worst case, this card does nothing. But in the best case, it draws and plays 3 2-cost minions. Assuming drawing 3 cards is worth ~5 mana and each summoned minion is worth ~2 mana, that's a maximum value of ~11 mana. Taking an average of its best and worst case, this means the card is worth on average 5.5 mana. Changing the mana cost of the card to increase by 1 has the following benefits: 1) Puts the card's mana cost closer in line with it's theoretical average mana cost in normal Paladin decks. 2) Makes the card no longer useable in Genn Greymane decks, reducing their power level. 3) Though the card does then become available to Baku the Mooneater decks, it can only summon 1-cost minions, again reducing the card's power level.
3) Divine Favor How I'd Change it: Increase the mana cost to (4) with a weaker but similar draw effect.
Why: I don't mind aggro decks having card draw, but it always felt off to me that they could have so much additional resources for such little investment. In essence the current version of Divine Favor allows decks to play their entire hand directly into AoE and then be rewarded for it. This change makes the card more useful for midrange decks while still being powerful. It would also make the card much more useful in aggro vs. aggro matches. This also moves it from Odd Paladin decks to Even Paladin decks to compensate for the Call to Arms change above.
Why: This is meant as an indirect nerf to Shudderwock. Shudderwock in and of itself is fine and similar to N'Zoth, the Corruptor or Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. But the combo with Grumble, Worldshaker creates such an unfun interaction for many players by creating a loop of extremely slow turns. By making this change it allows this card to still be useful in Elemental decks without enabling the slow OtK. And if players still want to have infinite Shudderwocks it's possible with Zola the Gorgon or Baleful Banker, it will just be much much slower.
5) Dark Pact How I'd Change it: Increase mana cost to (2).
Why: I really like the theme of Warlocks sacrificing their minions for benefits, but this combos too effectively with Carnivorous Cube and Possessed Lackey. By increasing the mana cost by (1), the combos are still posssible but slower.
6) Doomguard How I'd Change it: Replace Charge with Rush.
Why: I think the problem with Doomguard right now is how easy it is to get it out without the drawback. But by using the new keyword Rush you can tone down the card without completely destroying the it. Now the card is way more board-centric and still a real threat then summoned rather than played, but without the burst potential. I know a common suggestion is having it gain Charge via the Battlecry, but I think that would weaken the card so much that Cubelock may not survive (especially if take in conjunction with a Dark Pact nerf).
7) Spiteful Summoner How I'd Change it: Modify the summoning to summon 5-cost minions.
Why: Big Spell archetypes are interesting, but the power spike of summoning an 8+ cost minion on turn 5-6 is too early for a lot of decks to be reasonably expected to have answers. This change tones the power level of the card down dramatically. To help compensate for the power drop, the restriction on deck building is also reduced. Now you could run 5+ mana spells without worrying it would ruin Spiteful Summoner, whereas before you typically only could run 8-10 mana spells. (As an extra bonus, it makes it thematically fit better with all the Big Spell cards Mage got recently, such as Dragoncaller Alanna).
Thank you again for your attention. I happily welcome any and all constructive feedback. :)
I've thought about that same change to Ultimate Infestation. Good ideas. I currently feel as though two cards get out of hand too easily in the right decks. More so, it's that if you don't beat the decks fast enough, it becomes impossible to win.
Ultimate Infestation: This is kinda necessary for Druid to survive IMO. If it were to be changed, I would just make the targeted damage only be able to hit minions. Druid isn't a spellcaster and thus doesn't need burn damage.
Call to Arms: The thing with this card is it's really powerful at 4 mana and almost trash at 5. Force of Nature and Doppelgangster never see play for their singular effect alone because 6/6 for 5 mana is just average for power, especially on more than one body. Paladin is a problem, but I don't think this is the way to fix it.
Divine Favor: Seems good effect-wise, but I would also keep this at its original cost of 3. Your nerf is reasonable though.
Grumble, Worldshaker: I get that you want to see Shudderwock gone, but it's one of about two decks the class has going for it. I would change Grumble's battlecry to ". . . they cost (3) less)" because getting everything back for only 1 mana each is extremely powerful and it would never allow you to play more than one Shudderwock in a turn.
Dark Pact: I think they should either make it cost two as you did above, or reduce the healing to 6.
Doomguard: I would simply make the discard mechanic a Deathrattle so players aren't punished for playing it, but reap havoc if they duplicate it.
Spiteful Summoner: I like the effect, the problem I see with it is the extra 4/4 body you get with your big minion. If Spiteful Summoner was only a 1/1, there wouldn't be as much of a burst of pressure on the board, but you keep the big minions which would still be worth building around. Even changing it to a 2/2 would be fair. (more fair than the Corridor Creeper nerf)
Divine Favor - Just nuke the card It’s the biggest problem with paladin. Five mana draw four is good with me.
Doomguard - Charge should only be applicable with a discard
Spiteful - mana spawn should be capped at seven, body reduced to a 3/3
CTA - five mana
Dark pact - 6 health for 2 mana. The biggest mistake was giving warlock stupid heal. That’s the real reason for CubeLock success. They negate the negative drawback of the hero power
One more I'd target: Bloodreaver Gul'dan. If Siphon Life dealt two damage instead of three, would a single person drop the card from their deck? Yes, it's the most expensive hero card and it should be strong accordingly. But in actuality it's one of the easiest cards to play because the ensuing taunt wall allows you to play iot even against a threatening board. And even at a 4 HP swing the hero power would still be among the game's best.
UI- Seems fine but this is really their primary comeback condition, most instances, they delegate on early turns clinging to stay alive until they can make off curve moves for most classes. Plus, UI as it is, is only a 2% win rate gain via hsreplay which is only slightly above average. I really like your mana breakdown of the value. I think 4s would knock it down a few win % points, so it wouldnt be the end of the road for UI but although the card is OP - Druid sort've needs it to be. Plus knocking Druid back a bit would probably put Warlock and Priest in the clear driver seat.
Call to Arms- Its a great card but I feel at turn 5 its not even worth playing. I never, ever have felt there's no way I can come back from this if my opponent throws it down turn 4 or even turn 3 with coin. AoE can destroy it, and flooding the board yourself if you're aggro can trade with it. No need for a nerf here.
Divine Favor- Interesting thought. You sure don't like your opponents gaining cards do you lol? Some Pros cut one DF, and sometimes even two entirely. When you can cut a card out of a deck and when the card is played IT ACTUALLY DECREASES YOUR WIN RATE BY 13%!!!!! (via hsreplay) That is astounding!!!! I am absolutely sure alot of this is because it sits in your hand when playing a mirror or aggro match up. In fact, your nerf would actually increase its win% against aggro lmao.
Grumble - Meh, Shaman is showing to still be in a bad spot. Maybe we need to work on the actual mechanics of Shudderwock instead of this card. Elemental packages have shown to be pretty crappy, even in mage it has a tough time to have a respectable win%.
Dark Pact - I called this one of the most op cards of K&C before expansion hit after seeing the cubelock in theory craft :D. As a proud Cube/Control variant player I really like this nerf. it takes an extra turn for cube to do cube things, and at the same time - wont be eaten up by a pesky geist. So its a bit of a win-win for everyone. I like this nerf.
Doomguard - Your nerf would literally spell doom (no pun intended) for cube if this couldn't initially go face. Cube is strong yes, but its win rate isn't even considered tier 1. This will also kill zoolock, and I won't lie, Zoo is one of my favorite decks - possibly ever. Alot of bias here of course, but perhaps the nerf "gain charge only if two cards are discarded" would be better but even then it isn't going face. Don't tell Ben Brode about this :D
Spiteful - I think there is alot of nerfs that can be considered with this, yours included for sure. Against aggro, it seems like a last ditch effort for a taunt, against control alot of cards can bring down the big boy that comes out of the summon. Its really the mirror decks that struggle mightily. I'd be down to hear what other kind of nerfs people would like for it to have though, as yours definitely sounds viable.
Ultimate Infestation: This is kinda necessary for Druid to survive IMO. If it were to be changed, I would just make the targeted damage only be able to hit minions. Druid isn't a spellcaster and thus doesn't need burn damage.
Call to Arms: The thing with this card is it's really powerful at 4 mana and almost trash at 5. Force of Nature and Doppelgangster never see play for their singular effect alone because 6/6 for 5 mana is just average for power, especially on more than one body. Paladin is a problem, but I don't think this is the way to fix it.
Divine Favor: Seems good effect-wise, but I would also keep this at its original cost of 3. Your nerf is reasonable though.
Grumble, Worldshaker: I get that you want to see Shudderwock gone, but it's one of about two decks the class has going for it. I would change Grumble's battlecry to ". . . they cost (3) less)" because getting everything back for only 1 mana each is extremely powerful and it would never allow you to play more than one Shudderwock in a turn.
Dark Pact: I think they should either make it cost two as you did above, or reduce the healing to 6.
Doomguard: I would simply make the discard mechanic a Deathrattle so players aren't punished for playing it, but reap havoc if they duplicate it.
Spiteful Summoner: I like the effect, the problem I see with it is the extra 4/4 body you get with your big minion. If Spiteful Summoner was only a 1/1, there wouldn't be as much of a burst of pressure on the board, but you keep the big minions which would still be worth building around. Even changing it to a 2/2 would be fair. (more fair than the Corridor Creeper nerf)
UI with 4's all around would still be a broken card. Druid does not need the current iteration of it to survive and would definitely still run it with 4's.
CtA is more than just a bunch of 2/2's. It pulls valuable minions like Knife Juggler and Shielded Minibot (in wild) that are worth more than a regular 2/2 AND it thins out the low drops from your deck so you can get your buff cards. 100% this card needs a nerf.
Divine Favor I agree with your assessment.
Doomguard is an iffy one. While I love the idea of Cubelocks having to discard their cards, if you put it on the deathrattle, the card becomes way too good for aggro/zoo. They could then do things like Doomguard + Soulfire for a 6 mana/9 damage burst without worrying about discarding one or the other.
Only thing about increasing Pact's mana cost is it can't be Geist'd anymore which is a common solution in wild due to Jade still being alive and well. I would prefer lower healing.
nerf cube to before it destroys the target minion it silence it 1st
doomguard? dont nerf it , I guessing he will be part of hall of fame next year including leeroy haha.
spiteful summoner , same stats add 1 more manacost.
ultimate infestation. nerf draw 5? at least 3 or less . sprint is draw 4 already and cost 7
Dark pact , not that powerful. keep it as it is .
Corridor creeper make it 4/5 and 8 mana cost upgrade it . no more tempo cards
life drinker 3/3 body and 3 lifesteal . fireball?
Silence > destroy for cube would only make it 4x better to target Voidlords with to keep the little 1/3's out of your death list.
I'm really not sure what to do with Doomguard. Maybe the Cube is what needs to change? maybe it should instantly add the copies to your hand instead of summoning them after it dies. Doomguard only became an issue after the Cube combos, it's one of Zoo's only competitive cards still in standard. or, while it would probably crowd the card text, maybe it could summon one and add the other to your hand?
I would like the 1 mana increase to Spiteful, that or reducing its stats to 1/1 or 2/2.
You can't compare Ultimate Infestation to Sprint. Sprint is one: a basic card that everyone has access to by just downloading the game, no opening packs or crafting so it's power level is slightly lower than craftable cards (usually). two: it's in a class that has access to Preparation making it a 4 mana draw 4 (or replace 1 draw 3) so While I think Druid as a whole has a little too much card draw (thus why you nearly never see the second UI played in a game) It is still a 10 mana card that takes a whole turn to play. I'd rather see the 5 damage only able to target minions like I said in my first comment earlier in this thread.
Dark Pact is just a little too efficient with Cube for me so again, look at my cube nerf i said a second ago.
Corridor Creeper often sat at zero while I had a couple more minions die so bringing it up to 8 mana wouldn't be worth +2 Attack. I'd be okay with 8 mana 3/5 though.
edit: in order for Hearthstone to be fun and balanced you need to either bring the power level of the other classes to match those around them, or tone down the most powerful classes a bit. So Blizzard either needs to 1. Nerf some broken cards, note I said nerf, not destroy (rip Creeper)2. print a couple more broken cards for the under-represented classes so they can compete or finally 3. figure out what can be buffed (or un-nerfed) before (or during) the next expansion release.
The problem is that there are no answers available to certain classes for some of these cards.
Doomguard - battlecry: charge ; discard 2 cards from your deck.
The warlock hero should only Rez cards that have been played not summoned or died.
Spiteful summoner is fine but it should overload or they should give us a neural 10 mana card. Or a card like Coldlight Oracle which costs 5 mana and each player draws 2 spells from their deck.
I agree with some of these, but to imply that Grumble Worldshaker needs a nerf seems silly. There are problems in terms of Shudderwock animations, but if those are fixed the deck is fine. Additionally, cards like Possessed Lackey, Bloodreaver Gul'dan, and Voidlord are all exponentially more problematic in cubelock than Doomguard which has been a *relatively* fair and interesting card in warlock for years. (That said, I wouldn't really mind seeing it hall of famed so as to see more room for class cards going forward) I do very much think cubelock needs nerfs in for some combination of pact, lackey or guld'an though. That deck is far more oppressive than quest rogue ever was.
I also really like your idea for the Divine Favor nerf. That said, I'd almost rather see the card hall of famed so that we could see a paladin draw card with an entirely different identity, in which it doesn't necessarily have to favor aggro or rush style decks.
Spiteful nerf would made it unplayable, sure it is strong but I believe 5 cost is just to big of a nerf for the card, I actually like the card, I like fighting big monsters!
While I don’t really know if Call to Arms would be trash at 5 I love the logic you used at odd/even, it’s a great suggestion imo.
I agree with some of these, but to imply that Grumble Worldshaker needs a nerf seems silly. There are problems in terms of Shudderwock animations, but if those are fixed the deck is fine. Additionally, cards like Possessed Lackey, Bloodreaver Gul'dan, and Voidlord are all exponentially more problematic in cubelock than Doomguard which has been a *relatively* fair and interesting card in warlock for years. (That said, I wouldn't really mind seeing it hall of famed so as to see more room for class cards going forward) I do very much think cubelock needs nerfs in for some combination of pact, lackey or guld'an though. That deck is far more oppressive than quest rogue ever was.
Fair points. To be honest, now that Shudderwock is having its animation fixed changing Grumble, Worldshaker likely isn't necessary because the problem with it was how long it took to kill you on the OtK turn, not that it could OtK you (since at least some combo decks should exist, and as long as they take multiple cards and multiple turns to set up they aren't that problematic).
As for Cubelock, I really think hitting Dark Pact with the nerf I suggested indirectly nerfs Possessed Lackey enough that that card itself wouldn't need additional changes. I thought about nerfing Bloodreaver Gul'dan or Voidlord but wasn't certain the best way to do it and thought Doomguard was an easier target to change. But I do agree with some of the other comments suggesting Hall of Fame or "Battlecry: Discard 2 random cards and gain Charge." as alternate solutions to the card.
I also really like your idea for the Divine Favor nerf. That said, I'd almost rather see the card hall of famed so that we could see a paladin draw card with an entirely different identity, in which it doesn't necessarily have to favor aggro or rush style decks.
Yeah Hall of Fame could be a valid alternate solution.
I really like these changes. And i hope blizzard realizes there cards are problems. One question: If Doomguard is changed to have rush, isn't the Dark Pact nerf a little too much?
I really like these changes. And i hope blizzard realizes there cards are problems. One question: If Doomguard is changed to have rush, isn't the Dark Pact nerf a little too much?
Possibly, although in terms of priority I think the Dark Pact nerf is more important than the Doomguard nerf. The Doomguard nerf also indirectly affects Bloodreaver Gul'dan which I think is important.
Disclaimer: I am well aware that I am far from the first person to suggest that some cards should be nerfed, and I'm also well aware that it is a bit too early in the new expansion to break out the pitchforks. But I still wanted to put my thoughts out there of how/why I'd change a few problematic cards in the meta. I also wanted to make this thread as an exercise for myself in thinking critically about game balance. I don't claim to be an authority over anything, and I welcome constructive criticism. Please note that I am assuming that all these nerfs would occur together, meaning each nerf shouldn't be solely considered by itself. Thank you for reading! :)
1) Ultimate Infestation
How I'd Change it: Change all 5s to 4s.
Why: Breaking down the effects of Ultimate Infestation, the card is worth well above 10 mana. Dealing 5 damage is worth ~4 mana, drawing 5 cards is worth ~9 mana, gaining 5 armor is worth ~1 mana, and summoning a 5/5 is worth ~4.5 mana. All together that means you get about 18.5 mana of value for 10 mana. This is just absurd. But by changing all the 5s to 4s, the card gets much more reasonble while still being very powerful. Dealing 4 damage is worth ~3 mana, drawing 4 cards is worth ~7 mana, gaining 4 armor is worth ~0.8 mana, and summoning a 4/4 is worth ~3.5 mana. All together that's 14.3 mana of value for 10 mana, which feels much more reasonable.
2) Call to Arms
How I'd Change it: Increase the mana cost to (5).
Why: The issue I've had with Call to Arms is that it's power is just way above the curve. Let's break it down a bit. In the worst case, this card does nothing. But in the best case, it draws and plays 3 2-cost minions. Assuming drawing 3 cards is worth ~5 mana and each summoned minion is worth ~2 mana, that's a maximum value of ~11 mana. Taking an average of its best and worst case, this means the card is worth on average 5.5 mana. Changing the mana cost of the card to increase by 1 has the following benefits:
1) Puts the card's mana cost closer in line with it's theoretical average mana cost in normal Paladin decks.
2) Makes the card no longer useable in Genn Greymane decks, reducing their power level.
3) Though the card does then become available to Baku the Mooneater decks, it can only summon 1-cost minions, again reducing the card's power level.
3) Divine Favor
How I'd Change it: Increase the mana cost to (4) with a weaker but similar draw effect.
Why: I don't mind aggro decks having card draw, but it always felt off to me that they could have so much additional resources for such little investment. In essence the current version of Divine Favor allows decks to play their entire hand directly into AoE and then be rewarded for it. This change makes the card more useful for midrange decks while still being powerful. It would also make the card much more useful in aggro vs. aggro matches. This also moves it from Odd Paladin decks to Even Paladin decks to compensate for the Call to Arms change above.
4) Grumble, Worldshaker
How I'd Change it: Change it to only return Elementals.
Why: This is meant as an indirect nerf to Shudderwock. Shudderwock in and of itself is fine and similar to N'Zoth, the Corruptor or Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. But the combo with Grumble, Worldshaker creates such an unfun interaction for many players by creating a loop of extremely slow turns. By making this change it allows this card to still be useful in Elemental decks without enabling the slow OtK. And if players still want to have infinite Shudderwocks it's possible with Zola the Gorgon or Baleful Banker, it will just be much much slower.
5) Dark Pact
How I'd Change it: Increase mana cost to (2).
Why: I really like the theme of Warlocks sacrificing their minions for benefits, but this combos too effectively with Carnivorous Cube and Possessed Lackey. By increasing the mana cost by (1), the combos are still posssible but slower.
6) Doomguard
How I'd Change it: Replace Charge with Rush.
Why: I think the problem with Doomguard right now is how easy it is to get it out without the drawback. But by using the new keyword Rush you can tone down the card without completely destroying the it. Now the card is way more board-centric and still a real threat then summoned rather than played, but without the burst potential. I know a common suggestion is having it gain Charge via the Battlecry, but I think that would weaken the card so much that Cubelock may not survive (especially if take in conjunction with a Dark Pact nerf).
7) Spiteful Summoner
How I'd Change it: Modify the summoning to summon 5-cost minions.
Why: Big Spell archetypes are interesting, but the power spike of summoning an 8+ cost minion on turn 5-6 is too early for a lot of decks to be reasonably expected to have answers. This change tones the power level of the card down dramatically. To help compensate for the power drop, the restriction on deck building is also reduced. Now you could run 5+ mana spells without worrying it would ruin Spiteful Summoner, whereas before you typically only could run 8-10 mana spells. (As an extra bonus, it makes it thematically fit better with all the Big Spell cards Mage got recently, such as Dragoncaller Alanna).
Thank you again for your attention. I happily welcome any and all constructive feedback. :)
I know, lets nerf any good card, NOT a good idea.
If you are in your first year of playing please read this post.
Dust does not burn a hole in the jar. Be careful what you craft, especially before and right after a rotation.
Couldn't agree more, all great suggestions
I've thought about that same change to Ultimate Infestation. Good ideas. I currently feel as though two cards get out of hand too easily in the right decks. More so, it's that if you don't beat the decks fast enough, it becomes impossible to win.
Kingsbane and Frost Lich Jaina.
Not fun fighting against a bunch of 10/10 lifesteal Pyros' and board full of lifesteals every turn.
Not fun fighting against a 13/3 lifesteal weapon that prevents fatigue.
Ultimate Infestation: This is kinda necessary for Druid to survive IMO. If it were to be changed, I would just make the targeted damage only be able to hit minions. Druid isn't a spellcaster and thus doesn't need burn damage.
Call to Arms: The thing with this card is it's really powerful at 4 mana and almost trash at 5. Force of Nature and Doppelgangster never see play for their singular effect alone because 6/6 for 5 mana is just average for power, especially on more than one body. Paladin is a problem, but I don't think this is the way to fix it.
Divine Favor: Seems good effect-wise, but I would also keep this at its original cost of 3. Your nerf is reasonable though.
Grumble, Worldshaker: I get that you want to see Shudderwock gone, but it's one of about two decks the class has going for it. I would change Grumble's battlecry to ". . . they cost (3) less)" because getting everything back for only 1 mana each is extremely powerful and it would never allow you to play more than one Shudderwock in a turn.
Dark Pact: I think they should either make it cost two as you did above, or reduce the healing to 6.
Doomguard: I would simply make the discard mechanic a Deathrattle so players aren't punished for playing it, but reap havoc if they duplicate it.
Spiteful Summoner: I like the effect, the problem I see with it is the extra 4/4 body you get with your big minion. If Spiteful Summoner was only a 1/1, there wouldn't be as much of a burst of pressure on the board, but you keep the big minions which would still be worth building around. Even changing it to a 2/2 would be fair. (more fair than the Corridor Creeper nerf)
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Divine Favor - Just nuke the card It’s the biggest problem with paladin. Five mana draw four is good with me.
Doomguard - Charge should only be applicable with a discard
Spiteful - mana spawn should be capped at seven, body reduced to a 3/3
CTA - five mana
Dark pact - 6 health for 2 mana. The biggest mistake was giving warlock stupid heal. That’s the real reason for CubeLock success. They negate the negative drawback of the hero power
Grumble - don’t care.
Seems fair to me.
One more I'd target: Bloodreaver Gul'dan. If Siphon Life dealt two damage instead of three, would a single person drop the card from their deck? Yes, it's the most expensive hero card and it should be strong accordingly. But in actuality it's one of the easiest cards to play because the ensuing taunt wall allows you to play iot even against a threatening board. And even at a 4 HP swing the hero power would still be among the game's best.
My thoughts on your nerfs:
UI- Seems fine but this is really their primary comeback condition, most instances, they delegate on early turns clinging to stay alive until they can make off curve moves for most classes. Plus, UI as it is, is only a 2% win rate gain via hsreplay which is only slightly above average. I really like your mana breakdown of the value. I think 4s would knock it down a few win % points, so it wouldnt be the end of the road for UI but although the card is OP - Druid sort've needs it to be. Plus knocking Druid back a bit would probably put Warlock and Priest in the clear driver seat.
Call to Arms- Its a great card but I feel at turn 5 its not even worth playing. I never, ever have felt there's no way I can come back from this if my opponent throws it down turn 4 or even turn 3 with coin. AoE can destroy it, and flooding the board yourself if you're aggro can trade with it. No need for a nerf here.
Divine Favor- Interesting thought. You sure don't like your opponents gaining cards do you lol? Some Pros cut one DF, and sometimes even two entirely. When you can cut a card out of a deck and when the card is played IT ACTUALLY DECREASES YOUR WIN RATE BY 13%!!!!! (via hsreplay) That is astounding!!!! I am absolutely sure alot of this is because it sits in your hand when playing a mirror or aggro match up. In fact, your nerf would actually increase its win% against aggro lmao.
Grumble - Meh, Shaman is showing to still be in a bad spot. Maybe we need to work on the actual mechanics of Shudderwock instead of this card. Elemental packages have shown to be pretty crappy, even in mage it has a tough time to have a respectable win%.
Dark Pact - I called this one of the most op cards of K&C before expansion hit after seeing the cubelock in theory craft :D. As a proud Cube/Control variant player I really like this nerf. it takes an extra turn for cube to do cube things, and at the same time - wont be eaten up by a pesky geist. So its a bit of a win-win for everyone. I like this nerf.
Doomguard - Your nerf would literally spell doom (no pun intended) for cube if this couldn't initially go face. Cube is strong yes, but its win rate isn't even considered tier 1. This will also kill zoolock, and I won't lie, Zoo is one of my favorite decks - possibly ever. Alot of bias here of course, but perhaps the nerf "gain charge only if two cards are discarded" would be better but even then it isn't going face. Don't tell Ben Brode about this :D
Spiteful - I think there is alot of nerfs that can be considered with this, yours included for sure. Against aggro, it seems like a last ditch effort for a taunt, against control alot of cards can bring down the big boy that comes out of the summon. Its really the mirror decks that struggle mightily. I'd be down to hear what other kind of nerfs people would like for it to have though, as yours definitely sounds viable.
Cheers!
nerf cube to before it destroys the target minion it silence it 1st
doomguard? dont nerf it , I guessing he will be part of hall of fame next year including leeroy haha.
spiteful summoner , same stats add 1 more manacost.
ultimate infestation. nerf draw 5? at least 3 or less . sprint is draw 4 already and cost 7
Dark pact , not that powerful. keep it as it is .
Corridor creeper make it 4/5 and 8 mana cost upgrade it . no more tempo cards
life drinker 3/3 body and 3 lifesteal . fireball?
I think what should be more expensive is Possessed Lackey and Skull of the Man'ari not the Dark Pact.
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The problem is that there are no answers available to certain classes for some of these cards.
Doomguard - battlecry: charge ; discard 2 cards from your deck.
The warlock hero should only Rez cards that have been played not summoned or died.
Spiteful summoner is fine but it should overload or they should give us a neural 10 mana card. Or a card like Coldlight Oracle which costs 5 mana and each player draws 2 spells from their deck.
such salt much BM.
I agree with some of these, but to imply that Grumble Worldshaker needs a nerf seems silly. There are problems in terms of Shudderwock animations, but if those are fixed the deck is fine. Additionally, cards like Possessed Lackey, Bloodreaver Gul'dan, and Voidlord are all exponentially more problematic in cubelock than Doomguard which has been a *relatively* fair and interesting card in warlock for years. (That said, I wouldn't really mind seeing it hall of famed so as to see more room for class cards going forward) I do very much think cubelock needs nerfs in for some combination of pact, lackey or guld'an though. That deck is far more oppressive than quest rogue ever was.
I also really like your idea for the Divine Favor nerf. That said, I'd almost rather see the card hall of famed so that we could see a paladin draw card with an entirely different identity, in which it doesn't necessarily have to favor aggro or rush style decks.
I could live with all of those but Spiteful!
Spiteful nerf would made it unplayable, sure it is strong but I believe 5 cost is just to big of a nerf for the card, I actually like the card, I like fighting big monsters!
While I don’t really know if Call to Arms would be trash at 5 I love the logic you used at odd/even, it’s a great suggestion imo.
I really like these changes. And i hope blizzard realizes there cards are problems. One question: If Doomguard is changed to have rush, isn't the Dark Pact nerf a little too much?
Golden Heroes in order:
Mage, Warlock, Priest, Shaman, Warrior, Rogue, Paladin