So, last time I made this thread I was a complete and utter douchebag, and before we even get started I want to apologize for that. No excuses given, no forgiveness asked, I was in the wrong. Still..... I think it's better to share some general tips in one thread than try to have an argument in each individual card on certain points, and so I hope that I can give some advice and maybe guide Card Reveal season a little bit better.
I really hope to make a thread that can just be bumped every Reveal Season rather than just now with WW, so I'll avoid using specifics only for this upcoming expansion.
Without further Ado; Tips for Evaluating Cards (in any card game, really):
Tip 1: Does this card pass the Vanilla Test? Figured I'd start basic. The Vanilla test is a question you need to ask yourself when looking at a new card; "Does this Minion have Vanilla stats?" (1 mana 1/2 or 2/1, 2 mana 2/3 or 3/2, so on). If it fails the Vanilla test, it needs to have either more stats (So fails in the positive way, like Flamewreathed Faceless) or it needs to have an good additional effect(s) in order to justify using it (Azure Drake).
Even if it passes the Vanilla Test that doesn't make it a good card, however (River Crocolisk), and it may need additional effects in order to see play (Plated Beetle). This is just a test as to if it has a decent amount of stats or not.
Tip 2: Ask yourself, what kind of meta does this fit in? Too often I see people outright dismiss cards that end up being incredibly good solely because they couldn't see past the type of meta they were currently playing in; people were constantly saying Rin, the First Disciple was far too slow to see play in any way other than meme decks, and she was completely crushing it simply due to the fact that she puts Control decks on a timer and the meta actually slowed down enough to use her. Same reason Pyros went from unplayable garbage to a great card once you could justify having 3 understatted minions in one card.
It's impossible to know how the meta game will shape up prior to the expansion launching, so it's far, far better to identify which cards are good in what type of meta game than to try to match cards to the current (hopefully soon to be) obsolete one.
Tip 3: Does this card do something similar to what we've seen before? While it's hard to know exactly how cards will play out (most of the time), it becomes a lot easier to know how good a card is/isn't if you've already seen a card like it before. Recruit without the keyword was around long before K&C, with Finja, the Flying Star and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound, so we kind of knew what to expect with that and could evaluate the cards clearly. It becomes important to recognize similarities in cards when looking at a new expansion.
If we ever see a Murloc version of Ship's Cannon we know we're in trouble, for instance.
However, this also applies the other way, too; just because we've seen something before, doesn't mean this new version isn't a lot more powerful. Compare The Mistcaller and Prince Keleseth for how that can turn out. And we knew how well */2's faired and could tell that the Uther of the Ebon Blade's hero power was horrible due to how horrible Nether Portal's imps were.
Wild Tip 1) Evaluating Random Pool cards. In Wild, the thing to note is that as the card pool expands more and more, cards that give you random cards of any type are going to get worse and worse. Deathstalker Rexxar will be harder to get a good combination of beasts (When they fix it), Jewelled Scarab, once one of the best midrange 3 drops, and even cards like Piloted Shredder will get worse and worse since there are fewer good minions to get a hold of (especially with the increase of 2 mana 1/1 "Do Something" minions that are all over the place now). It's just the way the game goes.
Even if Mage got a Hydrologist type card, that card would eventually be worthless; Yes, you could easily get a defensive Secret, but Counterspell, Vaporize, Ice Block, and Ice Barrier all counter very different things and when the pool is 100 secrets deep the odds of getting the exact one you need becomes less and less. This holds true for cards like Cabalist's Tome, Burgle, and similar cards; the pool will eventually be so deep that actually getting a burn spell to finish the game is going to be difficult.
Of course, this does not include cards like The Lich King or Ysera, who draw from their own pool of cards and therefore won't be diluted by more and more expansions.
Wild Tip 2: Cards that synergize with other unspecified cards can only get better. Cards like Master Oakheart (Which pulls any cards no matter the effect/cost as long as they have 1/2/3 attack), Genn Greymane/Baku the Mooneater (As more and more cards of those costs get added), and even The Last Kaleidosaur (all it takes is "This minion can't be targetted by spells or hero powers" on a buff card, but buffs in general) are all going to keep getting better and better as more and more of those cards are going to be printed.
Any card that uses any condition causes you to re-evaluate said card; yeah The Marsh Queen doesn't have support *now*, but every set has 1 drops in it so there's a reason to revisit it every so often. Hadronox may be a joke now, but eventually there will be enough support to allow you to play him in a non-joke fashion.
The only exception to this really is Open the Waygate, for the above reason; random cards will be a terrible way to play the game seriously when the card pool gets bigger and bigger. Cards like Forgotten Torch will alleviate this, however.
Wild Tip 3: Redundancy is great. When talking about Explosive Runes, Firebat had wise words of wisdom to say; "Eventually all that burn makes counting to 30 really easy". We're seeing it in Druid with all the mana ramp, we're seeing it in Mage with all the burn, and we're seeing it in Warlock with all the healing; even if they only print one or two cards that do it you're going to eventually be able to stack the cards that all do the same thing to either eliminate the weakness of the deck or supercharge the strength of it.
This even applies to cards no one is looking at, with stuff like Mana Wraith. There have been a handful of Tax Effects, a couple more and we have a deck in Wild.
Those are some tips that I hope help people to evaluate cards in the upcoming expansion. They won't make your guesses 100% perfect (I know I've failed on quite a few of mine), but they should help people evaluate cards. If anyone has any other tips, I'll be sure to add them into the list.
Frost Lich Jaina and Bloodreaver Gul'dan are fantastic examples of Wild Tip #2, and for DK Jaina in particular a demonstration of Tip #2: they can only get better as more cards of their respective tribes are introduced. One can never write off DK Jaina as a lesser card, like some were doing in the early days of KFT; as long as more Elementals and/or other control tools are added to her growing repertoire, Frost Lich Jaina will grow in strength. It probably won't take much to tip the scales in her favor and become DK #1.
She'll shape the creation of all future 1-Health minions, at the very least lol
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
I don't know if she's shape the creation of such, but she'll definitely shape the evaluation of them. Especially if Control Mage stays a thing (Which it should, just because of the toolset they have), then FL Jaina is always going to be a thing.
I think you make some salient points, but I disagree with the comments you make about Wild card pools being diluted.
They won't NECESSARILY become diluted, it depends on the future ratio of effects and distribution of power, indeed wild card generation may actually get better!
This being said though I agree that it makes things less consistent.
Nice post!
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So, last time I made this thread I was a complete and utter douchebag, and before we even get started I want to apologize for that. No excuses given, no forgiveness asked, I was in the wrong. Still..... I think it's better to share some general tips in one thread than try to have an argument in each individual card on certain points, and so I hope that I can give some advice and maybe guide Card Reveal season a little bit better.
I really hope to make a thread that can just be bumped every Reveal Season rather than just now with WW, so I'll avoid using specifics only for this upcoming expansion.
Without further Ado; Tips for Evaluating Cards (in any card game, really):
Tip 1: Does this card pass the Vanilla Test?
Figured I'd start basic. The Vanilla test is a question you need to ask yourself when looking at a new card; "Does this Minion have Vanilla stats?" (1 mana 1/2 or 2/1, 2 mana 2/3 or 3/2, so on). If it fails the Vanilla test, it needs to have either more stats (So fails in the positive way, like Flamewreathed Faceless) or it needs to have an good additional effect(s) in order to justify using it (Azure Drake).
Even if it passes the Vanilla Test that doesn't make it a good card, however (River Crocolisk), and it may need additional effects in order to see play (Plated Beetle). This is just a test as to if it has a decent amount of stats or not.
Tip 2: Ask yourself, what kind of meta does this fit in?
Too often I see people outright dismiss cards that end up being incredibly good solely because they couldn't see past the type of meta they were currently playing in; people were constantly saying Rin, the First Disciple was far too slow to see play in any way other than meme decks, and she was completely crushing it simply due to the fact that she puts Control decks on a timer and the meta actually slowed down enough to use her. Same reason Pyros went from unplayable garbage to a great card once you could justify having 3 understatted minions in one card.
It's impossible to know how the meta game will shape up prior to the expansion launching, so it's far, far better to identify which cards are good in what type of meta game than to try to match cards to the current (hopefully soon to be) obsolete one.
Tip 3: Does this card do something similar to what we've seen before?
While it's hard to know exactly how cards will play out (most of the time), it becomes a lot easier to know how good a card is/isn't if you've already seen a card like it before. Recruit without the keyword was around long before K&C, with Finja, the Flying Star and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound, so we kind of knew what to expect with that and could evaluate the cards clearly. It becomes important to recognize similarities in cards when looking at a new expansion.
If we ever see a Murloc version of Ship's Cannon we know we're in trouble, for instance.
However, this also applies the other way, too; just because we've seen something before, doesn't mean this new version isn't a lot more powerful. Compare The Mistcaller and Prince Keleseth for how that can turn out. And we knew how well */2's faired and could tell that the Uther of the Ebon Blade's hero power was horrible due to how horrible Nether Portal's imps were.
Wild Tip 1) Evaluating Random Pool cards.
In Wild, the thing to note is that as the card pool expands more and more, cards that give you random cards of any type are going to get worse and worse. Deathstalker Rexxar will be harder to get a good combination of beasts (When they fix it), Jewelled Scarab, once one of the best midrange 3 drops, and even cards like Piloted Shredder will get worse and worse since there are fewer good minions to get a hold of (especially with the increase of 2 mana 1/1 "Do Something" minions that are all over the place now). It's just the way the game goes.
Even if Mage got a Hydrologist type card, that card would eventually be worthless; Yes, you could easily get a defensive Secret, but Counterspell, Vaporize, Ice Block, and Ice Barrier all counter very different things and when the pool is 100 secrets deep the odds of getting the exact one you need becomes less and less. This holds true for cards like Cabalist's Tome, Burgle, and similar cards; the pool will eventually be so deep that actually getting a burn spell to finish the game is going to be difficult.
Of course, this does not include cards like The Lich King or Ysera, who draw from their own pool of cards and therefore won't be diluted by more and more expansions.
Wild Tip 2: Cards that synergize with other unspecified cards can only get better.
Cards like Master Oakheart (Which pulls any cards no matter the effect/cost as long as they have 1/2/3 attack), Genn Greymane/Baku the Mooneater (As more and more cards of those costs get added), and even The Last Kaleidosaur (all it takes is "This minion can't be targetted by spells or hero powers" on a buff card, but buffs in general) are all going to keep getting better and better as more and more of those cards are going to be printed.
Any card that uses any condition causes you to re-evaluate said card; yeah The Marsh Queen doesn't have support *now*, but every set has 1 drops in it so there's a reason to revisit it every so often. Hadronox may be a joke now, but eventually there will be enough support to allow you to play him in a non-joke fashion.
The only exception to this really is Open the Waygate, for the above reason; random cards will be a terrible way to play the game seriously when the card pool gets bigger and bigger. Cards like Forgotten Torch will alleviate this, however.
Wild Tip 3: Redundancy is great.
When talking about Explosive Runes, Firebat had wise words of wisdom to say; "Eventually all that burn makes counting to 30 really easy". We're seeing it in Druid with all the mana ramp, we're seeing it in Mage with all the burn, and we're seeing it in Warlock with all the healing; even if they only print one or two cards that do it you're going to eventually be able to stack the cards that all do the same thing to either eliminate the weakness of the deck or supercharge the strength of it.
This even applies to cards no one is looking at, with stuff like Mana Wraith. There have been a handful of Tax Effects, a couple more and we have a deck in Wild.
Those are some tips that I hope help people to evaluate cards in the upcoming expansion. They won't make your guesses 100% perfect (I know I've failed on quite a few of mine), but they should help people evaluate cards. If anyone has any other tips, I'll be sure to add them into the list.
Frost Lich Jaina and Bloodreaver Gul'dan are fantastic examples of Wild Tip #2, and for DK Jaina in particular a demonstration of Tip #2: they can only get better as more cards of their respective tribes are introduced. One can never write off DK Jaina as a lesser card, like some were doing in the early days of KFT; as long as more Elementals and/or other control tools are added to her growing repertoire, Frost Lich Jaina will grow in strength. It probably won't take much to tip the scales in her favor and become DK #1.
She'll shape the creation of all future 1-Health minions, at the very least lol
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
I don't know if she's shape the creation of such, but she'll definitely shape the evaluation of them. Especially if Control Mage stays a thing (Which it should, just because of the toolset they have), then FL Jaina is always going to be a thing.
I think you make some salient points, but I disagree with the comments you make about Wild card pools being diluted.
They won't NECESSARILY become diluted, it depends on the future ratio of effects and distribution of power, indeed wild card generation may actually get better!
This being said though I agree that it makes things less consistent.
Nice post!