Hearthpwn

I don't think ice block and aluneth always go together.  Half the secret decks didn't even play ice block and those that did only played 1 copy.  Aluneth is liable to draw you into fatigue making ice block useless.

With Ice Block gone it is probably going to push mage's into the Tempo Burn/Secret archetype and we will probably not see anymore control style mage decks unless they get something from the new expansions coming up.

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 Yandai's logic is the one thats right tho... To have value from the specific secret, it needs to go off by bringing its full value back at least and even more if possible... 

 That's not true at all. In Mage, all secrets get value by enabling cards like Kabal Crystal Runner and Medivh's Valet.

For a card like Ice Block, which remains on the board for nearly the entire game, this value can be substantial because it allows you to use the Valet's battlecry at will.

 

The card is useful in most Secret Mage's matches for this reason, actually. And, if the opponent happens to pop it, it'll give the Mage the turn she needs to finish the game.

As stated in the OP, Ice Block is one of the worst tempo cards in the game. Did any of you think of why the card only recently found its way into a tempo archetype like secret mage?

The reason is Aluneth, and that card alone. Tempo matchups are won and lost on the board, but that extra draw MIGHT give you the edge in some games, if you don't draw lethal, it is also possible to play some more secrets and refill the board.

However, it is still not in every deck, and that extra turn does very little when decks like dudedin win the earlygame, and prevent any minions from hitting face.

Ice Block is most of all a card for combo decks, and they will struggle to ever see play in standard again.

 

 Ice Block is the same tempo loss as most other mage secrets (ice barrier, duplicate, mana bind, etc). You pay 3 mana and get something later (although I admit that the other secrets used in secret mage provide more tempo than ice block). And due to Kabal Lackey and Kirin Tor Mage the secrets are often played without any tempo loss at all.

I also think you changed cause and effect. In my opinion it is not Aluneth that allows ice block to be played, it is Ice Block that makes Aluneth a viable card. Aluneth is a 6 mana tempo loss and only because of the protection of ice block you can start to ignore the opponents board and hope for enough damage to win the game in the next turn(s). I remember a burn mage after Karazhan and it played 2 ice blocks as well. Simply for the reason to get the additional 1 turn and find the burn to win. Ice block simply fits that strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbU1ImizJBQ

But you are probably right with your prediction about combo decks. On the other hand, who knows what cards Blizzard releases in the next expansions...

Edit: just for clarification, I do not think Ice Block is OP. but I also do not think that the tempo issue is a big thing if ice block fits the strategy of the deck (i.e. if a turn more can be the difference between a win and a loss).

Quote from SlydE >>

 Ice Block is most of all a card for combo decks, and they will struggle to ever see play in standard again. 

Quote from Horkinger >>

 

Quote from SlydE >>

 

Quote from Dahkss >>

 

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from dimiem >>

 Yandai's logic is the one thats right tho... To have value from the specific secret, it needs to go off by bringing its full value back at least and even more if possible... 

 That's not true at all. In Mage, all secrets get value by enabling cards like Kabal Crystal Runner and Medivh's Valet.

For a card like Ice Block, which remains on the board for nearly the entire game, this value can be substantial because it allows you to use the Valet's battlecry at will.

 

The card is useful in most Secret Mage's matches for this reason, actually. And, if the opponent happens to pop it, it'll give the Mage the turn she needs to finish the game.

As stated in the OP, Ice Block is one of the worst tempo cards in the game. Did any of you think of why the card only recently found its way into a tempo archetype like secret mage?

The reason is Aluneth, and that card alone. Tempo matchups are won and lost on the board, but that extra draw MIGHT give you the edge in some games, if you don't draw lethal, it is also possible to play some more secrets and refill the board.

However, it is still not in every deck, and that extra turn does very little when decks like dudedin win the earlygame, and prevent any minions from hitting face.

Ice Block is most of all a card for combo decks, and they will struggle to ever see play in standard again.

 

 Ice Block is the same tempo loss as most other mage secrets (ice barrier, duplicate, mana bind, etc). You pay 3 mana and get something later (although I admit that the other secrets used in secret mage provide more tempo than ice block). And due to Kabal Lackey and Kirin Tor Mage the secrets are often played without any tempo loss at all.

I also think you changed cause and effect. In my opinion it is not Aluneth that allows ice block to be played, it is Ice Block that makes Aluneth a viable card. Aluneth is a 6 mana tempo loss and only because of the protection of ice block you can start to ignore the opponents board and hope for enough damage to win the game in the next turn(s). I remember a burn mage after Karazhan and it played 2 ice blocks as well. Simply for the reason to get the additional 1 turn and find the burn to win. Ice block simply fits that strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbU1ImizJBQ

But you are probably right with your prediction about combo decks. On the other hand, who knows what cards Blizzard releases in the next expansions...

Edit: just for clarification, I do not think Ice Block is OP. but I also do not think that the tempo issue is a big thing if ice block fits the strategy of the deck (i.e. if a turn more can be the difference between a win and a loss).

Quote from Nimehte >>

 

Quote from Horkinger >>

 

Quote from SlydE >>

 

Quote from Dahkss >>

 

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from dimiem >>

 Yandai's logic is the one thats right tho... To have value from the specific secret, it needs to go off by bringing its full value back at least and even more if possible... 

 That's not true at all. In Mage, all secrets get value by enabling cards like Kabal Crystal Runner and Medivh's Valet.

For a card like Ice Block, which remains on the board for nearly the entire game, this value can be substantial because it allows you to use the Valet's battlecry at will.

 

The card is useful in most Secret Mage's matches for this reason, actually. And, if the opponent happens to pop it, it'll give the Mage the turn she needs to finish the game.

As stated in the OP, Ice Block is one of the worst tempo cards in the game. Did any of you think of why the card only recently found its way into a tempo archetype like secret mage?

The reason is Aluneth, and that card alone. Tempo matchups are won and lost on the board, but that extra draw MIGHT give you the edge in some games, if you don't draw lethal, it is also possible to play some more secrets and refill the board.

However, it is still not in every deck, and that extra turn does very little when decks like dudedin win the earlygame, and prevent any minions from hitting face.

Ice Block is most of all a card for combo decks, and they will struggle to ever see play in standard again.

 

 Ice Block is the same tempo loss as most other mage secrets (ice barrier, duplicate, mana bind, etc). You pay 3 mana and get something later (although I admit that the other secrets used in secret mage provide more tempo than ice block). And due to Kabal Lackey and Kirin Tor Mage the secrets are often played without any tempo loss at all.

I also think you changed cause and effect. In my opinion it is not Aluneth that allows ice block to be played, it is Ice Block that makes Aluneth a viable card. Aluneth is a 6 mana tempo loss and only because of the protection of ice block you can start to ignore the opponents board and hope for enough damage to win the game in the next turn(s). I remember a burn mage after Karazhan and it played 2 ice blocks as well. Simply for the reason to get the additional 1 turn and find the burn to win. Ice block simply fits that strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbU1ImizJBQ

But you are probably right with your prediction about combo decks. On the other hand, who knows what cards Blizzard releases in the next expansions...

Edit: just for clarification, I do not think Ice Block is OP. but I also do not think that the tempo issue is a big thing if ice block fits the strategy of the deck (i.e. if a turn more can be the difference between a win and a loss).

 

 Bro I don't agree over Aluneth. The issue with aluneth it is 6 mana so you can play it on curve with explosive runes you already secure your early game so when you play aluneth you don't face with board danger and aluneth allows you to collect burst damage at your hand only in two fkn turns and with upcoming turns especially with the aprentice mages you literally destroy your opponenr's face also you lock your oppenent on board because they also face against a board presence so at the end it leaves iceblock pretty much useless tho  it gives feeling of security 

For me Ice Block became so frustrating when new game mechanics allowed to generate gazzilion of those in one match from nowhere. After seeing 3+ of those each game vs Mage people started to be angry about that. It's perfectly fine when you know that opponent can have max two of those. You can - sort of - play around it. I wasn't playing HS like 2 months and I'm happy that today I read that this card "goes away", but I think that better idea could be to make it gold and out of the pool of "generators" :)

The problem isn't ice block. It's the fact that mage can play 11 fucking ice blocks in a single game. I remember I played against an exodia mage who played ice block 7 TIMES IN A ROW, which caused me to lose the game. There is too many RNG spell-generation cards for ice block to be in standard.

Quote from _barat_ >>

For me Ice Block became so frustrating when new game mechanics allowed to generate gazzilion of those in one match from nowhere. After seeing 3+ of those each game vs Mage people started to be angry about that. It's perfectly fine when you know that opponent can have max two of those. You can - sort of - play around it. I wasn't playing HS like 2 months and I'm happy that today I read that this card "goes away", but I think that better idea could be to make it gold and out of the pool of "generators" :)

The attached photo is precisely why ice block should be removed. When I've got a 102 attack Scaled Nightmare (keep in mind it starts off at 2 attack and it doubles every turn) and the mage is still alive to kill me with a top decked fireball due to Ice Block from Glyph, I can firmly say to anyone who thinks this card isn't broken that your reasoning may be well natured, but clearly it's flawed. With that said, I would NOT be opposed to making Ice Block Legendary and only allowing one per deck. That is fair and balanced. But multiple ice blocks from Glyph is the root cause of the problem.