Everyone is panicking about Cubelock, but there are 2 decks that counter that deck hard( kingsbane millrouge, questmage), so the meta will also consist of them and their counters too, so I wont be too worried.
Patches will be OK in Wild, where there are more pirate synergies.
Raza will be totally fine in Wild, where Reno will live forever. It won't be the lynchpin of a combo deck, but it's still worth including in Reno Priest.
Bonemare is still fine. You just won't be seeing it in the faster decks anymore, which is as it should be.
Creeper nerf was pretty big. It's hard to justify including a 7-mana 2/5 that might not get much of a discount. The only reason it worked before was that a 7-mana 5/5 is just barely good enough to play when you're desperate.
I'm rather sure slower decks won't run bonemare over the alternatives(lich king, medivh, etc). I mean, if they don't at 7 mana why would they at 8? Totally agree otherwise.
In CCGs, we have this thing called "midrange."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Patches will be OK in Wild, where there are more pirate synergies.
Raza will be totally fine in Wild, where Reno will live forever. It won't be the lynchpin of a combo deck, but it's still worth including in Reno Priest.
Bonemare is still fine. You just won't be seeing it in the faster decks anymore, which is as it should be.
Creeper nerf was pretty big. It's hard to justify including a 7-mana 2/5 that might not get much of a discount. The only reason it worked before was that a 7-mana 5/5 is just barely good enough to play when you're desperate.
I'm rather sure slower decks won't run bonemare over the alternatives(lich king, medivh, etc). I mean, if they don't at 7 mana why would they at 8? Totally agree otherwise.
In CCGs, we have this thing called "midrange."
Midrange decks are pratically non existent in hearthstone in standard now though. If you rate decks like tempo rogue or murloc paladin as "midrange", I still don't think they will run it anymore. Tirion is a better 8 drop, and recent tempo rogue builds haven't even been auto including bonemare at 7 mana, so at 8 i don't think it will see play.
I think the raza nerf is actually the biggest. Bonemare is the smallest. Patches and creeper are pretty big but I think they could still see niche play, whereas it's very possible raza sees none at all, which is a shame. Raza HAD to be so strong to make reno priest even remotely viable and he didn't even really manage that pre-dk, as priest was still the worst kabal/reno deck, so I think this nerf is a much bigger deal than some people seem to think
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
Patches will be OK in Wild, where there are more pirate synergies.
Raza will be totally fine in Wild, where Reno will live forever. It won't be the lynchpin of a combo deck, but it's still worth including in Reno Priest.
Bonemare is still fine. You just won't be seeing it in the faster decks anymore, which is as it should be.
Creeper nerf was pretty big. It's hard to justify including a 7-mana 2/5 that might not get much of a discount. The only reason it worked before was that a 7-mana 5/5 is just barely good enough to play when you're desperate.
I'm rather sure slower decks won't run bonemare over the alternatives(lich king, medivh, etc). I mean, if they don't at 7 mana why would they at 8? Totally agree otherwise.
In CCGs, we have this thing called "midrange."
Midrange decks are pratically non existent in hearthstone in standard now though. If you rate decks like tempo rogue or murloc paladin as "midrange", I still don't think they will run it anymore. Tirion is a better 8 drop, and recent tempo rogue builds haven't even been auto including bonemare at 7 mana, so at 8 i don't think it will see play.
A big part of this whole kerfuffle is that three out the four cards being nerfed are viable in aggro decks. The stronger aggro gets, the harder it is to play midrange. So it's possible that midrange will experience a bit of a resurgence, partly because it can afford to use Bonemare and aggro cannot.
The big problem, of course, is Control Warlock, which now has the tools to defeat most midrange lists. That Possessed Lackey + Voidlord combo is more unbalanced than anything on this nerf list. The primary vulnerability of control decks used to be that they are too slow and have too few minions to deal with a steadily growing stream of midrange threats, so by all means, let's speed them up and let them flood the board with taunts! 18 Health worth of taunt for 5 mana, resurrectable by not one, but two different legendaries? Makes perfect sense.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Bonemare was hit pretty heavily, as very few cards have ever survived a 1-mana increase. Call of the Wild was the last late-game card to receive a mana nerf - it went from dominating the meta-game to being unplayable. If Bonemare continues to see play, I'd guess it would only be in Midrange decks - Tempo decks currently abuse the card, but it loses about 15% of its mana-efficiency with the nerf, and an 8-mana card likely needs to simply win the game when played in order for it to find room in a Tempo list. In the olden pre-Naxx days, I recall Ragnaros making the cut in some Tempo lists, but I can't recall any other 8-mana cards ever making the cut. FWIW - I'm guessing the card will die a slow death over the next two months.
Corridor Creeper was the hardest hit of the four cards. A vanilla 2/5 is a bad 3-mana card, so it really only gains value at 0 to 2-mana. According to HSReplays, the average cost of CC is about 4-mana, so the nerfed version of the card simply won't consistently gain anything like enough value to see play.
Patches will likely continue to see play in Wild Pirate Warrior, given the presence of Ship's Cannon. It seems dead in Standard, as its main role as a free removal spell which protected the early game snowballing of the rest of the deck has been completely neutered.
Raza will continue to see play in Wild, but Reno Priest will just be "another deck" among the two dozen or so viable decks in the format - and Reno builds that don't rely on burst damage from Anduin, like Reno Quest Priest, will likely see more play. In Standard, the deck has frankly had a higher play-rate than its win-rate could justify - despite community memes to the contrary, Razakus is actually a fairly difficult deck to pilot. It will become significantly more difficult for the next two months, though it might continue to see some tournament play.
I loved Raza « long » before Anduin, building a custom Shadowform/Inspire Wild deck.
I always thought Anduin was a crappy design because OP but also because it killed Shadowform outright.
I’ve been hoping for an Anduin nerf for ages and can’t believe they chose to nerf Raza. I hope I’m wrong to believe the card and subsequent deck is dead.
Meh. I had a Shadowform/Inspire deck back then too and it actually became a lot more inconsistent when I made it a highlander deck. Part of what made the deck function was in the few instances where I was able to get to get Shadowform to proc multiple times in a single turn, even if it happened only once in the game. Dealing a surprise 2 or 3 extra damage (Garrison Commander or 2nd Shadowform, respectively) was huge in a surprising number of games whereas TGT already had ways to reduce the cost of HP.
In most versions I kept two Shadowforms, hard mulliganing for one.
Hard mulliganing for a late game card? I admit that I'm far from the best player, but that sounds like a terrible idea. Playing Shadowform is a huge investment for future turns. I was only willing to play the card if I'm going to run low on cards anyway or if I played a card that would make the hero power cheaper. How well did your strategy work for you?
well i feel that Patches is still ok in tempo rogue if not drawn. 1 mana 2/2 or 3/3 pulled out for free is still not that bad (have to consider that it still thins out your deck).
As for Creeper i only found use for it in evolve shaman as it can still be a free 7 cost minion that can be evolved into good 8 cost minions and more.
Bonemare is still fine considering its late game value
as for Raza, i think it was a good nerf as now priest cannot just burst you down in one turn.
Everyone is panicking about Cubelock, but there are 2 decks that counter that deck hard( kingsbane millrouge, questmage), so the meta will also consist of them and their counters too, so I wont be too worried.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I think the raza nerf is actually the biggest. Bonemare is the smallest. Patches and creeper are pretty big but I think they could still see niche play, whereas it's very possible raza sees none at all, which is a shame. Raza HAD to be so strong to make reno priest even remotely viable and he didn't even really manage that pre-dk, as priest was still the worst kabal/reno deck, so I think this nerf is a much bigger deal than some people seem to think
"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Alphabetically -
Bonemare was hit pretty heavily, as very few cards have ever survived a 1-mana increase. Call of the Wild was the last late-game card to receive a mana nerf - it went from dominating the meta-game to being unplayable. If Bonemare continues to see play, I'd guess it would only be in Midrange decks - Tempo decks currently abuse the card, but it loses about 15% of its mana-efficiency with the nerf, and an 8-mana card likely needs to simply win the game when played in order for it to find room in a Tempo list. In the olden pre-Naxx days, I recall Ragnaros making the cut in some Tempo lists, but I can't recall any other 8-mana cards ever making the cut. FWIW - I'm guessing the card will die a slow death over the next two months.
Corridor Creeper was the hardest hit of the four cards. A vanilla 2/5 is a bad 3-mana card, so it really only gains value at 0 to 2-mana. According to HSReplays, the average cost of CC is about 4-mana, so the nerfed version of the card simply won't consistently gain anything like enough value to see play.
Patches will likely continue to see play in Wild Pirate Warrior, given the presence of Ship's Cannon. It seems dead in Standard, as its main role as a free removal spell which protected the early game snowballing of the rest of the deck has been completely neutered.
Raza will continue to see play in Wild, but Reno Priest will just be "another deck" among the two dozen or so viable decks in the format - and Reno builds that don't rely on burst damage from Anduin, like Reno Quest Priest, will likely see more play. In Standard, the deck has frankly had a higher play-rate than its win-rate could justify - despite community memes to the contrary, Razakus is actually a fairly difficult deck to pilot. It will become significantly more difficult for the next two months, though it might continue to see some tournament play.
Meh. I had a Shadowform/Inspire deck back then too and it actually became a lot more inconsistent when I made it a highlander deck. Part of what made the deck function was in the few instances where I was able to get to get Shadowform to proc multiple times in a single turn, even if it happened only once in the game. Dealing a surprise 2 or 3 extra damage (Garrison Commander or 2nd Shadowform, respectively) was huge in a surprising number of games whereas TGT already had ways to reduce the cost of HP.
well i feel that Patches is still ok in tempo rogue if not drawn. 1 mana 2/2 or 3/3 pulled out for free is still not that bad (have to consider that it still thins out your deck).
As for Creeper i only found use for it in evolve shaman as it can still be a free 7 cost minion that can be evolved into good 8 cost minions and more.
Bonemare is still fine considering its late game value
as for Raza, i think it was a good nerf as now priest cannot just burst you down in one turn.
this is my opinion.
I'm seeing zero Patches. Even Aggro Paladin isn't running it.
I'm seeing some Corridor Creeper. It works in Evolve Shaman still.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!