This post is born out of utter frustration. If you feel that you've heard enough of lamentations from the salt mine, please move along to the next post.
I've played some Sap/Eviscerate Tempo Rogue, and it felt somewhat weak, but not terrible. I considered using some of my limited resources to craft Keleseth, but felt reluctant. Calculating the statistical change of drawing one particular card out of 30 in 5-10 attempts, didn't seem promising. Then, with a stroke of luck (or was it, actually?) I opened a pack containing Keleseth, and decided to give Metastats #4919 a try. That's one of the best Rogue decks apparently. And I have tried. And tried. Aaaand tried... and the deck feels even weaker than my old Sap/Eviscerate Rogue.
Even if I mulligan pretty hard, Keleseth rarely start in my opening hand (which statistically makes sense. Patches, on the other hand, is a frequent guest, despite statistics - or so it feels), and more than half of the times he's a total no-show. I'm probably influenced by the low win rates I've achieved with the deck, but starting with Keleseth isn't that much fun either. Opponents often concede at the sight of his ugly face in the early turns, making even the rare victories feeling kind of hollow.
My actual question is: How do you feel about Keleseth Rogue and His Royal Highness himself? Do you experience decent win rates, even when not drawing the prince until turn 8? How would you compare it to Tempo Rogue without Keleseth (which apparently is played by no one, according to the meta sites)? Is Keleseth Rogue actually a thing of the past, just surviving on the reputation from it's KFT heydays?
Puh, that helped. Frustrations out of the system. Thank's for reading.
I have no stats at hand, but i think Prince Rogue and Sap Rogue are really next to each other, now.
That is thanks to the meta, overcrowded with Value cheats (Neutral package, Spiteful stuff, Lackey/Cubes) where Spellbreaker is huge, but Sap is often a brutal killer.
The value from Prince is irreplaceable, but his highroll nature is indeed a thing, and it is not rare to play a game with just a crippled mana curve...
I probably draw prince K once every 5 or 6 games. Unfortunately, those occasions are very rarely in my opening hand or available within the first 5 turns. Just one of those things. What is annoying is watching the streamers who hit legend. They draw him in opening hand like 70%/80% of the time.
He’s not actually needed to win but boosts your win rate if you have him in your hand to like 70-80%.
Mostly you should be hard muliganing for him. Keep only 1 Swashburgler or firefly and backstab (consider dumping Backstab as well if you’re certain it’s control) and dump the rest.
Against aggro keep SI with coin or backstab. If your desperate to make sure you get early board keep a deckhand if you don’t have a swash. You can keep captain and shadow step if you initially draw Keleseth.
If you have coin and backstabs keeping Edwin might be a good idea.
Creeper is a good keep if you already have a good opener.
if you do manage to keep keleseth in opening hand and you have captain, try and hold off playing a pirate so you can pull a 3/3 patches with Cap.
Dont hold stuff in speculation , if you’re not sure muligan it away for Keleseth.
Keleseth version is definitely the better version but is more draw reliant and muliganing correctly is the key. Practice and understanding the correct mulligan for the different matchups is what’s needed.
I play quite a lot of tempo rogue, never actually mulligan for him, just keep fireflies/captain, if you draw him, great but I prefer to not draw patches than to actually draw him, now you also want corridor creepers in your opening hand so it's 9 cards (2 corridors, 2 fireflies, keleseth,2 captains, 2 backstabs) you are really looking for in mulligan as first and 12 as second (edwin and SI agents are great as second player, always keep ).
You aren't looking for a 2nd copy of such cards but you are looking for any of thsoe so mulliganing in tempo rogue is quite easy since you got a great chance to get a good early game card.
swashburglar is also a good keep sometimes but I seen that the keep win rate is quite low and he is overrated by a lot, captain is better keep.
I use the prince in a druid deck where it does not necasarrily need to be drawn early on because it is not a tempo deck. I can still use him later in the game without getting in trouble.
ik how you feel, it's the same when playing against those dirty raza priests, without fail they always seem to have kazakus on turn 4, raza on 5 and anduin on 8 and then when people like you and I try that deck, all 3 cards always seem to be at the bottom. lol, same thing with keleseth, opponent always has it turn 2, a lot of the time with shadowstep aswell and I think the longest I went without even drawing keleseth, let alone getting to play him was 13 games in a row without evening seeing him in my hand.
The ability to draw Keleseth is the same magical ability that always makes sure Highlander priest has their Cleric, and Shadow Word:Pain in hand to make sure they can kill any early threat played against them, while drawing the cards necessary to kill all future threats while they wait for turn 5 to play Raza and turn 8 to play Anduin. :-)
But, all kidding aside .. I feel your pain. But, on those rare occasions where you have awesome RNG, it feelsgoodman for sure. I went on a complete tear last night playing BIg Priest ... 9 game win streak with Barnes on curve 7 out of those 9.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
I don't notice the Keleseth thing so much but Patches is in my opening hand 50% of the time. I even tracked the stats. I'm wondering if it's a soft nerf for both of them that sorta went unannounced? There is no way to nerf the card text without destroying the card, but certainly changing the percentage of likelihood that it ends up in your hand or not is possible.
I don't notice the Keleseth thing so much but Patches is in my opening hand 50% of the time. I even tracked the stats. I'm wondering if it's a soft nerf for both of them that sorta went unannounced? There is no way to nerf the card text without destroying the card, but certainly changing the percentage of likelihood that it ends up in your hand or not is possible.
You must bm as much as you can. In my experience being a degenarate toxic spammer and roper is vital in order to be successful with keleseth and raza decks.
I don't notice the Keleseth thing so much but Patches is in my opening hand 50% of the time. I even tracked the stats. I'm wondering if it's a soft nerf for both of them that sorta went unannounced? There is no way to nerf the card text without destroying the card, but certainly changing the percentage of likelihood that it ends up in your hand or not is possible.
show screenshot of stats?
It's an excel spreadsheet. I don't use apps to track Hearthstone stuff.
Haha I feel so the same way! And the most frustrating is when you finally get Keleseth in your opening hand and you draw Patches just before to play it. Haha
If you think you're losing cause you don't draw keleseth on the mulligan you're playing the deck wrong, is like you think not drawing Edwin is the thing that loses you the game every time you do, the prince is an amazing card and for sure makes games easier but the deck can easily win without it, I usually keep 1 drops (1 of them ofc) and depending on match-ups I keep stuff like backstab and then SI, Captain with coin, if it's a slow game I always keep Edwin and in fast game always keep 1 creeper, shuffle back everything that's not those cards and if you don't get prince just one advice... GIT GUD.
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This post is born out of utter frustration. If you feel that you've heard enough of lamentations from the salt mine, please move along to the next post.
I've played some Sap/Eviscerate Tempo Rogue, and it felt somewhat weak, but not terrible. I considered using some of my limited resources to craft Keleseth, but felt reluctant. Calculating the statistical change of drawing one particular card out of 30 in 5-10 attempts, didn't seem promising. Then, with a stroke of luck (or was it, actually?) I opened a pack containing Keleseth, and decided to give Metastats #4919 a try. That's one of the best Rogue decks apparently. And I have tried. And tried. Aaaand tried... and the deck feels even weaker than my old Sap/Eviscerate Rogue.
Even if I mulligan pretty hard, Keleseth rarely start in my opening hand (which statistically makes sense. Patches, on the other hand, is a frequent guest, despite statistics - or so it feels), and more than half of the times he's a total no-show. I'm probably influenced by the low win rates I've achieved with the deck, but starting with Keleseth isn't that much fun either. Opponents often concede at the sight of his ugly face in the early turns, making even the rare victories feeling kind of hollow.
My actual question is: How do you feel about Keleseth Rogue and His Royal Highness himself? Do you experience decent win rates, even when not drawing the prince until turn 8? How would you compare it to Tempo Rogue without Keleseth (which apparently is played by no one, according to the meta sites)? Is Keleseth Rogue actually a thing of the past, just surviving on the reputation from it's KFT heydays?
Puh, that helped. Frustrations out of the system. Thank's for reading.
Novice engineer & Hearthstone dilettante
I have no stats at hand, but i think Prince Rogue and Sap Rogue are really next to each other, now.
That is thanks to the meta, overcrowded with Value cheats (Neutral package, Spiteful stuff, Lackey/Cubes) where Spellbreaker is huge, but Sap is often a brutal killer.
The value from Prince is irreplaceable, but his highroll nature is indeed a thing, and it is not rare to play a game with just a crippled mana curve...
I probably draw prince K once every 5 or 6 games. Unfortunately, those occasions are very rarely in my opening hand or available within the first 5 turns. Just one of those things. What is annoying is watching the streamers who hit legend. They draw him in opening hand like 70%/80% of the time.
Sounds like a mulligan issue
He’s not actually needed to win but boosts your win rate if you have him in your hand to like 70-80%.
Mostly you should be hard muliganing for him. Keep only 1 Swashburgler or firefly and backstab (consider dumping Backstab as well if you’re certain it’s control) and dump the rest.
Against aggro keep SI with coin or backstab. If your desperate to make sure you get early board keep a deckhand if you don’t have a swash. You can keep captain and shadow step if you initially draw Keleseth.
If you have coin and backstabs keeping Edwin might be a good idea.
Creeper is a good keep if you already have a good opener.
if you do manage to keep keleseth in opening hand and you have captain, try and hold off playing a pirate so you can pull a 3/3 patches with Cap.
Dont hold stuff in speculation , if you’re not sure muligan it away for Keleseth.
Keleseth version is definitely the better version but is more draw reliant and muliganing correctly is the key. Practice and understanding the correct mulligan for the different matchups is what’s needed.
I play quite a lot of tempo rogue, never actually mulligan for him, just keep fireflies/captain, if you draw him, great but I prefer to not draw patches than to actually draw him, now you also want corridor creepers in your opening hand so it's 9 cards (2 corridors, 2 fireflies, keleseth,2 captains, 2 backstabs) you are really looking for in mulligan as first and 12 as second (edwin and SI agents are great as second player, always keep ).
You aren't looking for a 2nd copy of such cards but you are looking for any of thsoe so mulliganing in tempo rogue is quite easy since you got a great chance to get a good early game card.
swashburglar is also a good keep sometimes but I seen that the keep win rate is quite low and he is overrated by a lot, captain is better keep.
no issue at all, for me it's very easy:
Mimsy Were The Borogoves
Novice engineer & Hearthstone dilettante
How do I draw it? RNG decides, always.
I use the prince in a druid deck where it does not necasarrily need to be drawn early on because it is not a tempo deck. I can still use him later in the game without getting in trouble.
The defining feature is the armor - the high collar and the large pauldrons. He is muscular, but not bulky. Don't forget the tall brow.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Drawing Keleseth is pretty easy, you need only a lot of skill.
It is much harder to mulligan Patches and as first card drawn to get Patches back, that's really skill... i have mastered it.
All Skill, No Luck
lol, speaking of Patches.. it's even easier for me:
Mimsy Were The Borogoves
ik how you feel, it's the same when playing against those dirty raza priests, without fail they always seem to have kazakus on turn 4, raza on 5 and anduin on 8 and then when people like you and I try that deck, all 3 cards always seem to be at the bottom. lol, same thing with keleseth, opponent always has it turn 2, a lot of the time with shadowstep aswell and I think the longest I went without even drawing keleseth, let alone getting to play him was 13 games in a row without evening seeing him in my hand.
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
The ability to draw Keleseth is the same magical ability that always makes sure Highlander priest has their Cleric, and Shadow Word:Pain in hand to make sure they can kill any early threat played against them, while drawing the cards necessary to kill all future threats while they wait for turn 5 to play Raza and turn 8 to play Anduin. :-)
But, all kidding aside .. I feel your pain. But, on those rare occasions where you have awesome RNG, it feelsgoodman for sure. I went on a complete tear last night playing BIg Priest ... 9 game win streak with Barnes on curve 7 out of those 9.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
I don't notice the Keleseth thing so much but Patches is in my opening hand 50% of the time. I even tracked the stats. I'm wondering if it's a soft nerf for both of them that sorta went unannounced? There is no way to nerf the card text without destroying the card, but certainly changing the percentage of likelihood that it ends up in your hand or not is possible.
You must bm as much as you can. In my experience being a degenarate toxic spammer and roper is vital in order to be successful with keleseth and raza decks.
Haha I feel so the same way! And the most frustrating is when you finally get Keleseth in your opening hand and you draw Patches just before to play it. Haha
If you think you're losing cause you don't draw keleseth on the mulligan you're playing the deck wrong, is like you think not drawing Edwin is the thing that loses you the game every time you do, the prince is an amazing card and for sure makes games easier but the deck can easily win without it, I usually keep 1 drops (1 of them ofc) and depending on match-ups I keep stuff like backstab and then SI, Captain with coin, if it's a slow game I always keep Edwin and in fast game always keep 1 creeper, shuffle back everything that's not those cards and if you don't get prince just one advice... GIT GUD.