Let's be real Explosive Runes has no counter play. you either play a big minion to limit face damage and be sad that your big minion is now dead or low health, or you play something small and take a million face damage. There is no good solution against this card especially since mage burst potential is very high.
Divine shield. EZ gaem.
Does not work. This is allegedly not a bug, but its super dumb. Fixing this interaction would be the easiest way to slightly "nerf" this card. It makes perfect that divine shield should absorb all damage
Then there are cards that doesn't exist, and therefore create a problem. For example there's no reliable way to break OTK combos, other than Warlock's Treachery shenanigans. This has caused the entire control archetype to almost disappear completely, because they can't beat an OTK regardless of how powerful their control game is. In my opinion Hearthstone needs targeted discard in the neutral slot to solve this problem.
I agree with the majority of your post except for the quoted part... Unless our definitions of "targeted discard" differ (Mine would be a card like Confiscation from Yugioh) I don't think a card like that would be healthy for the game.... You put this card in your Deck and when you play against Exodia Mage you call Tony and it's game over,you win just cause you played a Tech card I wouldn't find that fair.... Not to mention it could be abusable even against non combo Decks.... Discard the opponent's DK and they're probably done for.... What I'm trying to say is that too many Decks right now have specific card(s) as winconditons and if you get rid of them you basically just win the game on spot.... You win the game cause you played one card not cause you outplayed your opponent,I'm sorry but I fail to see how that would make the game better....
I didn't elaborate fully because my post was getting long already :) I do mean a card that would let you pick a card from your opponent's hand, perhaps while keeping them face down, and discard it.
However the point is not to make that be an autowin. I want all strategies to have counters, and those counters have counters. If your deck is all about an OTK (I have some thoughts on that too), then it would not be unreasonable to have anti-discard tech that lets you recover discarded cards.
However in an optimal world, I think even decks like Quest Mage should have a backup plan, like how Cube Warlock can also win with N'Zoth, Rin or the DK. Decks centered around one thing and one thing only tend to create binary gameplay where the outcome is known from the matchup, and where every game feels the same because you can't adapt your deck depending on opponent.
Point being that Hearthstone hasn't been designed with discard in mind, so any inclusion of such mechanics would require many more complementing changes. Also that is just one suggestion among other possible solutions for control to handle OTK. For example a big expensive neutral legendary that gives you an Ice Block-like effect, or a way to punish the opponent for drawing a lot.
If we get a way to recover discarded cards then yes I guess I'd be fine with a card like that but picking one from the opponent's hand face down sounds horrible to me.... It would just add more RNG that could potentially be game winning.... I'd personally be fine with some horribly understatted,expensive neutral card (Something even crappier than EOS that you would consider running just if you really really wanted to win against a specific Deck) that let's you name a card and discard all copies of it (Something like Prohibition from Yugioh) and if a card like that ever makes it into the game we'd also need something to get that discarded card back (Again it would need to be a crappy tech card that you'd run with the sole purpose of getting back your combo piece).... As for backup plans,I'd love to see that.... I really like Exodia Mage but I hate that if you lose even one combo piece your screwed,I'd really like the Deck to have another wincondition,the problem is that you can only have 30 cards in your Deck and the Decklist is already as tight as it can get.... For these "backup plans" to be become viable we'd definitely need the Deck size to increase.... I also like the idea of having "soft counters " to OTK decks or specific strategies in general,I think a card like Loatheb was a great design choice but that it was poorly executed.... 5 mana 5/5 with that battelcry is just broken,I like the fact that it gave Decks an out to stuff like Miracle and Freeze but imo those stats (That made it basically autoinclude in most Decks) and that battlecry (5 more mana for spells is a lot) were too much....
Jade Idol is the only problematic card in the game. It basically deleted the control archetype. It is sad to think that it will never get nerfed now that it'll rotate to wild.
To be fair - Jade Druid has never been a problem in Wild. Its performance peaked after KFT, with a win-rate in the VS reports of about 54%. However, win-rates are typically a few percent higher in Wild compared to Standard, as the older format features considerably more home-brews, memes, and Daily Quest decks - Pirate Warrior peaked at about 56%, while Dude Paladin has consistently maintained win-rates of 56%-58% since the launch of Un'Goro. After the nerfs, the win-rate of Jade Druid tanked by nearly 7%, and the play-rate has bottomed out to about 2%. Control decks in Wild typically play win-conditions, and don't often attempt to simply attrit the opponent's resources and win through playing the long-term value game, which further undermines the relative strength of JD in the format.
I predict Corridor Creeper will meet the same fate as Azure Drake...Blizz will pull stats and realize that it has become an auto include in that slot on the curve and move it to HOF...will that happen tomorrow? No, but will probably be its longish term fate. Patches is on it's way out via standard rotation anyway, but you need to blame the 2 drop pump prince for giving non aggro classes the flexibility and value to run a pirate package.
Every class, except maybe shaman, has a competitive ladder deck right now IMO.
I'd say CC is the issue - it's a lot worse than Azure Drake ever was in being an auto include in virtually every deck because every deck loves playing 0 mana 5/5s.
Bonemare wasn't as bad...until CC showed up and playing around Bonemare by clearing the board doesn't work anymore. But with 14/14 worth of stats on t7 Bonemare isn't even a big problem as the Spiteful Summoner or Grand Archivist which can highroll even more. So Bonemare is fine, relatively.
Worse than Bonemare is Scalebane but even that is a 5/5 for 5 mana with snowball potential. Statwise it's massively outgunned by many of the new cards.
Patches is dumb and has limited the design of Aggro decks and pirate cards like no tomorrow, but nothing will happen now because nothing has happened to it so far.
The Slayer is fine. 5 mana need an activator destroy only 1 minion, that's no problem. It's bad before turn 5, it's bad against Aggro, bad against spell-based decks, etc.
The main problem with Explosive Runes is that it can be cheated out for 0 mana. For 3 mana it isn't really OP; it's the play a 3 mana 4/3 with battlecry "deal an extra 6 damage across your opponent's next minion and their face" that is a problem.
I think that Jade Idol is the most oppressive card in the game right now. If you have ever wanted to try to make a control deck since MSG then you have to ask yourself "can this out value jades" if not, scrap you idea it won't work competitively. Just by jade druid existing pushes out a lot of decks from playability. Think about it. The only decks in the meta right now are either hyper control or hyper aggro. We have control warlock/mage, highlander and jade druid. These decks all have so much value that it is impossible to play any other control deck right now. I think jade idol has forced the meta into how it is now and I will be so happy at the rotation as the jade mechanic is eliminated (rest in pepperinos wild) And we can start to see midrange and other non-hyper value control decks emerge.
Definition: "Dilemma" - "a situation in which a difficult choice has to be made between two or more alternatives, especially equally undesirable ones" (i.e., Explosive Runes)
Definition: "counterplay - "opposing or contrasting play or an instance such asa countering move or maneuver in a game or competition."
Explain how the choice of losing a good minion or taking a fireball to the face is a "counterplay"
Counter play doesn’t mean it ends up great. It means the impact is mitigated. You can’t counter explosive trap, you take two damage to all no matter what or cat trick as he gets the minion.
You can do that if you have appropriate cards in hand. But what that entails depends on the situation.
The problem with it is that mage secrets mostly suck and the class received support cards for crappy secrets so when they get a secret that is a good card in and of itself it is really good.
If this were a spell hitting a random minion (which would be better than this as you have much more control) it wouldn’t be spectacular.
Definition: "Dilemma" - "a situation in which a difficult choice has to be made between two or more alternatives, especially equally undesirable ones" (i.e., Explosive Runes)
Definition: "counterplay - "opposing or contrasting play or an instance such asa countering move or maneuver in a game or competition."
Explain how the choice of losing a good minion or taking a fireball to the face is a "counterplay"
Counter play doesn’t mean it ends up great. It means the impact is mitigated. You can’t counter explosive trap, you take two damage to all no matter what or cat trick as he gets the minion.
You can do that if you have appropriate cards in hand. But what that entails depends on the situation.
I once counterplayed Explosive Trap while I had Swamp King Dred out by basically only playing a few minions (I held most of them back) and not attacking face; I simply let Dred and a handful of other minions sit there and control the board while my opponent used up his cards.
Counterplay can be done in a lot of ways. There IS counterplay for Explosive Trap and Cat Trick. It USUALLY involves not playing things, but not always, and it can depend what you play; playing something like Acolyte of Pain before attacking into an Explosive Trap makes all kinds of sense. But for what it's worth, having counterplay does not really mean you're supposed to have something you can do about a card in EVERY situation; all cards dominate certain specific situations.
Patches will rotate next expansion, no need to nerf anything there.
Bonemare is good, but not OP in my opinion. It does have reasonable counterplay (just don't elave anything up turn 6) and it's actually a very important tool for midrange decks to get taunt in the later stages, which keep full aggro in check.
Corridor Creeper I agree is busted and should be nerfed as soon as possible. It ahs no counterplay, no required synergies and no real downsides. I'd like it if they just changed th effect to Friendly minions only in order to either make it a card for token/swarm decks (like Shaman or Zoolock), or to enemy minions only to make it a card for defensive decks that can use it as tempo after clearing the board. Right now it's just a boring must-have that doesn't require any deckbuilding.
Nerfing Vilepsine would be a terrible idea right before the rotation. Tempo Rogue already loses a bunch of tools (PIrate package is very important) and nerfing this card would inevitably just harm any slower Rogue decks as well, which would just seem unfair to the class
No,us wild players don't want to deal with patches either. They need to balance him and other certain cards before wild starts to become a literal unbalanced cesspool. Its fine now but patches should change
News flash. Wild is already a literal unbalanced cesspool. That's the point and it was always the point.
Whatever, i still stand by my point in him needing a nerf. I can deal with tunnel trogg, reno jackson,etc. but patches will definitely make wild less enjoyable if all the people that use him decide to transition there or something. Wild already has enough aggro decks anyways, him only being playable in wild will just make it worse
All the new resurrection cards are problematic, for they are efficient and they break balance between threats and removals.
IMO the resurrect effect is fine, and it's the "1/1 copy" mechanic that needs to be revisited. A silenced "1/1 copy" should remain a 1/1. A resurrected 1/1 copy should remain a 1/1.
I've sometimes thought that "create a 1/1 shadow with the special powers and deathrattles of a friendly minion (or minion your deck) would be an interesting change over creating the minion with a health/attack debuff. I think this is usually saltiness after being beaten by a high-rolling "big priest" type deck.
Out of curiosity looked at hsreplay for top 5 cards (and no surprises here):
1) Corridor Creeper
2) Tar Lurker
3) Patches
4) Bonemare
5) Cobalt Scalebane
Out of these, each can be argued to be busted... but I think the underlying problem is Patches. Not a new line of thought, I know. I am frustrated that class identity has become really blurred. The fact that patches is played in almost every class (including priest?!) is a concern to me. That's a symptom of a bigger problem.
I have no problem with strong neutrals, but I have a BIG problem when those strong neutrals continue to outrank class cards in the same mana slot. When neutrals are better than class cards, all decks start to feel the same, with a few exceptions. Name a midrange deck that would rather run a 2-drop that isn't Keleseth, a 3-drop that isn't Southsea Captain, a 5-drop that isn't Scalebane, or a 7-drop that isn't Bonemare.
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Jade Idol is the only problematic card in the game. It basically deleted the control archetype. It is sad to think that it will never get nerfed now that it'll rotate to wild.
Jade idol has been nerfed by powercreep. No-one worries about running into jades anymore.
Keleseth - I think this card by itself is fine but cards that making it bounces back is NOT fine. I would make a mechanic to say that the battlecry only triggers ONCE in the game so even if it was bounced back and played again it doesn't trigger the second time.
Priest DK - This card just needs to be 10 mana. The whole highlander priest archetype is just way too good. If you watch any stream or are playing ladder from r5 to legend. This deck is still the best deck overall even after the expansion. It's so well rounded then board clears, draws and close to OTK combo. You cannot tech against it(The Darkness is good enough). In tournies, Priest is the class that gets banned 90% of the time mainly because of highlander priest. I don't know what more is needed to show how OP this deck is. So please Blizz...at least make this 10 mana card
Highly doubt that is what will happen. While the hero power redux from Raza is fantastic and a powerful aspect of the deck, the removal of this will not instantly result in highlander priest not being viable. What is likely is that you will start seeking more minion dependent highlander decks which will skip the OTK aspect - similar to how dragon highlander does now. For all we know when rotation happens a new priest legendary might come up that is even worse than Raza because blizz sees highlander as viable and wants to continue to support it.
Keleseth - I think this card by itself is fine but cards that making it bounces back is NOT fine. I would make a mechanic to say that the battlecry only triggers ONCE in the game so even if it was bounced back and played again it doesn't trigger the second time.
Priest DK - This card just needs to be 10 mana. The whole highlander priest archetype is just way too good. If you watch any stream or are playing ladder from r5 to legend. This deck is still the best deck overall even after the expansion. It's so well rounded then board clears, draws and close to OTK combo. You cannot tech against it(The Darkness is good enough). In tournies, Priest is the class that gets banned 90% of the time mainly because of highlander priest. I don't know what more is needed to show how OP this deck is. So please Blizz...at least make this 10 mana card
Highly doubt that is what will happen. While the hero power redux from Raza is fantastic and a powerful aspect of the deck, the removal of this will not instantly result in highlander priest not being viable. What is likely is that you will start seeking more minion dependent highlander decks which will skip the OTK aspect - similar to how dragon highlander does now. For all we know when rotation happens a new priest legendary might come up that is even worse than Raza because blizz sees highlander as viable and wants to continue to support it.
No. Highlander will die post rotation.
What highland card is left? Reno was already wild to begin with, Kazakus und Raza rotate out. There will be no need for any singleton deck (as long as they don't print new cards. Though I have the feeling that it won't happen that soon, after all the complains due to Highlander Priest).
Shadowreaper Anduin will stay a strong, or rather, extremly powerful card. It may shift to something else entirely, though - if there is enough support, maybe a Dragon Soul Priest may become viable. Though I doubt that the new decks will be as dependant on Anduin as the Highlander is. Simply because there are no synergies anymore, making the OTK impossible.
Unless they add something major, when Ice Block rotates, Mage will probably be quite bad outside of tempo/secret Mage so I think Exploding runes really needs to stick around.
"Ubiquitous" isn't the same as "problematic." Just because a card is in a lot of decks, doesn't make it a problem. Indeed, the fact that everyone can use Bonemare or Corridor Creeper to counter other mares and creepers -- kind of makes it just a card.
Yes, yes, I'm aware that ubiquity is exactly the reason they gave for moving Azure Drake to the Hall of Fame. But Azure Drake was a Classic card, destined never to rotate out of Standard unless the devs removed it manually. That's not the case with the new Scapegoats of the Month.
To me, a truly problematic card is one that enables an oppressive archetype or strategy. I'm not sure we can narrow that field to just one card yet, but most of the prime candidates will be rotating out soon, so Team 5 may not think it's worth the bother to fix it once a culprit is identified. Honestly, the meta has been so turbulent that it's hard to even point to any deck as "oppressive."
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I predict Corridor Creeper will meet the same fate as Azure Drake...Blizz will pull stats and realize that it has become an auto include in that slot on the curve and move it to HOF...will that happen tomorrow? No, but will probably be its longish term fate. Patches is on it's way out via standard rotation anyway, but you need to blame the 2 drop pump prince for giving non aggro classes the flexibility and value to run a pirate package.
Every class, except maybe shaman, has a competitive ladder deck right now IMO.
I'd say CC is the issue - it's a lot worse than Azure Drake ever was in being an auto include in virtually every deck because every deck loves playing 0 mana 5/5s.
Bonemare wasn't as bad...until CC showed up and playing around Bonemare by clearing the board doesn't work anymore. But with 14/14 worth of stats on t7 Bonemare isn't even a big problem as the Spiteful Summoner or Grand Archivist which can highroll even more. So Bonemare is fine, relatively.
Worse than Bonemare is Scalebane but even that is a 5/5 for 5 mana with snowball potential. Statwise it's massively outgunned by many of the new cards.
Patches is dumb and has limited the design of Aggro decks and pirate cards like no tomorrow, but nothing will happen now because nothing has happened to it so far.
The Slayer is fine. 5 mana need an activator destroy only 1 minion, that's no problem. It's bad before turn 5, it's bad against Aggro, bad against spell-based decks, etc.
The main problem with Explosive Runes is that it can be cheated out for 0 mana. For 3 mana it isn't really OP; it's the play a 3 mana 4/3 with battlecry "deal an extra 6 damage across your opponent's next minion and their face" that is a problem.
I think that Jade Idol is the most oppressive card in the game right now. If you have ever wanted to try to make a control deck since MSG then you have to ask yourself "can this out value jades" if not, scrap you idea it won't work competitively. Just by jade druid existing pushes out a lot of decks from playability. Think about it. The only decks in the meta right now are either hyper control or hyper aggro. We have control warlock/mage, highlander and jade druid. These decks all have so much value that it is impossible to play any other control deck right now. I think jade idol has forced the meta into how it is now and I will be so happy at the rotation as the jade mechanic is eliminated (rest in pepperinos wild) And we can start to see midrange and other non-hyper value control decks emerge.
patches
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Out of curiosity looked at hsreplay for top 5 cards (and no surprises here):
1) Corridor Creeper
2) Tar Lurker
3) Patches
4) Bonemare
5) Cobalt Scalebane
Out of these, each can be argued to be busted... but I think the underlying problem is Patches. Not a new line of thought, I know. I am frustrated that class identity has become really blurred. The fact that patches is played in almost every class (including priest?!) is a concern to me. That's a symptom of a bigger problem.
I have no problem with strong neutrals, but I have a BIG problem when those strong neutrals continue to outrank class cards in the same mana slot. When neutrals are better than class cards, all decks start to feel the same, with a few exceptions. Name a midrange deck that would rather run a 2-drop that isn't Keleseth, a 3-drop that isn't Southsea Captain, a 5-drop that isn't Scalebane, or a 7-drop that isn't Bonemare.
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Not the cards are the problem. It's just how this game is designed.
No counterplay possible at all. Wanna go face, go face. It's bullshit.
Corridor Creeper should only reduce when YOUR minions die. That way only agro decks would even consider it
Unless they add something major, when Ice Block rotates, Mage will probably be quite bad outside of tempo/secret Mage so I think Exploding runes really needs to stick around.
"Ubiquitous" isn't the same as "problematic." Just because a card is in a lot of decks, doesn't make it a problem. Indeed, the fact that everyone can use Bonemare or Corridor Creeper to counter other mares and creepers -- kind of makes it just a card.
Yes, yes, I'm aware that ubiquity is exactly the reason they gave for moving Azure Drake to the Hall of Fame. But Azure Drake was a Classic card, destined never to rotate out of Standard unless the devs removed it manually. That's not the case with the new Scapegoats of the Month.
To me, a truly problematic card is one that enables an oppressive archetype or strategy. I'm not sure we can narrow that field to just one card yet, but most of the prime candidates will be rotating out soon, so Team 5 may not think it's worth the bother to fix it once a culprit is identified. Honestly, the meta has been so turbulent that it's hard to even point to any deck as "oppressive."
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland