If it were printed in a different meta, it would have made dragon priest insane, but if there's a control meta, the card is good but not great. It completely destroys aggro, the question is how often aggro will be played.
" It's a 4 mana 3/3 on turn 4, terrible for Tempo by itself "
how do you want me to agree with you when u are saying this.
What do you mean? On an empty board, it isn't good. Simple as that
To put it very simple: Hellfire is an okay card. It kills of the enemy board and provides some tempo by that. However, you cannot play much with it, in particularly not if you play it on turn 4 to kill some aggro-minions. But it is an okay tempo play.
Duskbreaker kills exactly the same minions as hellfire does, does not damage your own face (which is an advantage when you are playing against aggro) AND puts a 3/3 on the board. if that is not an tempo play, I don't know what is.
And if the opponent doesn't have a board, you can maybe play a Twilight Drake instead. Which would not have done anything to an existing board of the opponent.
for someone who's been on this forum for more than 2 years you seem to not udnerstand the basics of the game very well
yes, a vanilla 3/3 for 4 mana is terrible...which is why this isn't a vanilla card but one with a powerful AoE. It's a Hellfire strapped to a body, which, considering Hellfire is a pretty good card, already makes it good.
Saying that it's bad because on an empty board it does nothing is just fucking stupid. That's like saying Flamestrike is an awful card because it's a dead card when the enemy doesn't have a board.
The point of the card and why it is strong is the fact that you can play it to clear the board and still be left with a body, which means TEMPO.
The point of this card is to make Dragon Priest stronger against decks that flood the board early. It measn that you won't hae to wait til turn 6 to get a good boardclear. It's basically another Twilight Guardian, but instead of being a taunt, that forces trades. it actively clears the board and leaves you with a body to recover tempo against decks that have a stronger opening.
Abyssal Enforcer is almost the same thing and is amazing in Warlock...and that thing costs 7-mana. If Warlock had a 4-mana hellfire + a minion it would be instantly included in every control deck.
Should help vs evolve shaman, Hunter, murloc pally, and aggro druid.
That's a pretty big chunk of the meta. You might prefer to play a different card if you are mostly facing control and combo. So somewhat a meta call, but I can't remember a meta where I wouldn't want this when i was playing dragon priest.
Aggro Druid may not be a viable deck now that duskbreaker can clean up the midgame and psychic scream pretty much ends the game if your opponent has spent their minion resources on board.
Whew, the OP obviously doesn't play a lot of Hearthstone. In the value for cost area of AoE removal, this is by far the best ever made. Not only is it a huge tempo swing when you use it(not on empty boards LMAO), but it helps priest have a 4 mana answer which has been lacking since Twilight Guardian left (another amazing priest bulwark during it's run). This not only helps dragon priest but also should allow a Dragon Raza deck to return to the meta. This card will be extremely powerful until it leaves and I expect lots of 2/4 minions in the next two expansions if this isn't nerfed. That's pretty damn meta defining.
One last note. This is the answer to long standing issues against shamans. So many times priest needed an exact set of answers to stop flametongue, mana tide, and primalfin totems. Two of these have been an issue since the game came out. Many times, turn 5 or 6 was just too slow or you needed a two card combo. Now, turn 4 is just right.
for someone who's been on this forum for more than 2 years you seem to not udnerstand the basics of the game very well
yes, a vanilla 3/3 for 4 mana is terrible...which is why this isn't a vanilla card but one with a powerful AoE. It's a Hellfire strapped to a body, which, considering Hellfire is a pretty good card, already makes it good.
Saying that it's bad because on an empty board it does nothing is just fucking stupid. That's like saying Flamestrike is an awful card because it's a dead card when the enemy doesn't have a board.
The point of the card and why it is strong is the fact that you can play it to clear the board and still be left with a body, which means TEMPO.
The point of this card is to make Dragon Priest stronger against decks that flood the board early. It measn that you won't hae to wait til turn 6 to get a good boardclear. It's basically another Twilight Guardian, but instead of being a taunt, that forces trades. it actively clears the board and leaves you with a body to recover tempo against decks that have a stronger opening.
Abyssal Enforcer is almost the same thing and is amazing in Warlock...and that thing costs 7-mana. If Warlock had a 4-mana hellfire + a minion it would be instantly included in every control deck.
No, you just don't understand deck making plain and simple. Honestly that's probably why you're on this website, so you can netdeck and just win using someone else's creation.
"Saying that it's bad because on an empty board it does nothing is just fucking stupid. That's like saying Flamestrike is an awful card because it's a dead card when the enemy doesn't have a board."
This card REPLACES whatever 4 drop (Twilight Drake) was originally in the deck, not Dragonfire Potion. Twilight Drake doesn't require a Dragon to be in your hand and it also plays better tempo-wise when you play it by itself. In Midrange you want to curve out minions and what minions you have on your curve is extremely important. Also, Twilight Guardian was a card you could play on an empty board, Duskbreaker isn't. If you're trying to push an advantage, which is the ONLY way Tempo decks win matches, then Duskbreaker isn't as good as Twilight Drake or Twilight Guardian or Priest of the Feast.
Also, you argue like I was saying the card was bad or something. I said it was Very Good which implies that it will see extensive play. Perhaps not as a 2-of, but a 1-of in Midrange decks perhaps replacing the likes of Priest of the Feast. (Whereas Priest of the Feast heals for damage, Duskbreaker mitigates it with boardclear and is therefore a suitable and better alternative to the latter)
I'm arguing that it isn't Meta-Defining. Not that it will see ZERO play. For someone who speaks English, your reading comprehension isn't very good.
I found something that everyone missed - midrange decks DON'T rely on tempo, tempo decks do. Midrange decks rely on strong cards being able to be played without you having tempo on the board. As someone who played a ton of midrange druid pre-wrath, I can say that until around turn 4-5 you weren't getting any tempo and your best play was wild growth on 2 into keeper of the grove/piloted shredder into druid of the claw, and that rarely happened. You don't rely on tempo in midrange - you rely on value and pressure. Duskbringer is one of the best value cards that fits in midrange, and saying it isn't good is like saying dr. boom isn't good.
Your thread name and post do not match. Saying that Duskbreaker is the most overrated card, makes it look like you think it is not good. This is considering past ratings, where meta defining rated cards saw zero play. Maybe stay away from the hyperboles and click-bait titles next time, to get a better discussion about your subject.
You don't play it when you can. You play it when it's advantageous to you. Wtf are you even talking about? Any mid-range deck fucking loves this card to death.
So if your curve is 2-3-4 and this is your 4, wtf do you play? Have you ever actually played a Midrange deck before? OBVIOUSLY you wouldn't play this card the turn it's playable, but if you had a better statted 4-drop, you would play THAT the turn it's playable. If you have this card in your hand on turn 4, unless you have another one of your 3-4 4 drops in your hand, you're forced into playing a 3 drop or 2 drop (You likely wouldn't have two 2 drops available in this situation either). The situation that you're being beat on board is the ONLY time this card is better than a vanilla 4/5 and that's about it. If your opponent is going first and they played a 4 drop that has >3 hp, then guess what? This card trades evenly. And that's ONLY IF you have a Dragon in your hand, which again, isn't always the case. Trust me, I used to exclusively play Dragon Priest back when it had 10-12 Dragons in it and even then I would still sometimes be left with no activators for my cards. Because there are now less activators in Dragon Priest, this issue is even greater and requires cards that are put into the deck to be great even when there aren't any activators. Cobalt Scalebane is one such card and Drakonid Operative is another, as both are still decent/great when you don't have an activator. (And yes, I know Scalebane doesn't have an effect that is based on having an activator lol).
The ONLY matchup this card is really going to dominate and make a profound impact on the direction of the game on turn 4 is against aggro and even then almost every single 3 drop Pirate Warrior runs has 4 hp while also utilizing weapons as another source of damage. This card doesn't answer the likes of Frothing Berserker or Bloodsail Cultist and also doesn't do anything at all to stop your opponent from using his/her weapon on your face. In other words, a taunt card could serve the same purpose. Is this card fantastic against aggro? Yes, it kills any and every single 1 and 2 drop under the sun that sees play in aggro decks save that 1 mana 1/1 with Divine Shield and is always something you're going to mulligan for, but it's not good in every single situation on turn 4 against aggro decks. Oh, yeah, and it still requires an activator after all of that.
I found something that everyone missed - midrange decks DON'T rely on tempo, tempo decks do. Midrange decks rely on strong cards being able to be played without you having tempo on the board. As someone who played a ton of midrange druid pre-wrath, I can say that until around turn 4-5 you weren't getting any tempo and your best play was wild growth on 2 into keeper of the grove/piloted shredder into druid of the claw, and that rarely happened. You don't rely on tempo in midrange - you rely on value and pressure. Duskbringer is one of the best value cards that fits in midrange, and saying it isn't good is like saying dr. boom isn't good.
That's a fair point but in this meta you will almost always be playing a Tempo matchup (Tempo Rogue) OR a matchup (Control decks) where you'll want to push Tempo. So while you're definitely correct in your assertion that Midrange decks do in fact focus on value moreso than Tempo, the current meta forces Midrange decks to be played faster than they could be in a slower meta. Oh, yeah, and when I say "Tempo" against Control Decks, I'm talking about applying pressure by curving out. Tempo is defined by setting the pace of the game and I feel like applying pressure and Tempo are similar in their definitions and can therefore be considered the same thing.
So if your curve is 2-3-4 and this is your 4, wtf do you play? Have you ever actually played a Midrange deck before? OBVIOUSLY you wouldn't play this card the turn it's playable, but if you had a better statted 4-drop, you would play THAT the turn it's playable. If you have this card in your hand on turn 4, unless you have another one of your 3-4 4 drops in your hand, you're forced into playing a 3 drop or 2 drop (You likely wouldn't have two 2 drops available in this situation either). The situation that you're being beat on board is the ONLY time this card is better than a vanilla 4/5 and that's about it. If your opponent is going first and they played a 4 drop that has >3 hp, then guess what? This card trades evenly. And that's ONLY IF you have a Dragon in your hand, which again, isn't always the case. Trust me, I used to exclusively play Dragon Priest back when it had 10-12 Dragons in it and even then I would still sometimes be left with no activators for my cards. Because there are now less activators in Dragon Priest, this issue is even greater and requires cards that are put into the deck to be great even when there aren't any activators. Cobalt Scalebane is one such card and Drakonid Operative is another, as both are still decent/great when you don't have an activator. (And yes, I know Scalebane doesn't have an effect that is based on having an activator lol).
The ONLY matchup this card is really going to dominate and make a profound impact on the direction of the game on turn 4 is against aggro and even then almost every single 3 drop Pirate Warrior runs has 4 hp while also utilizing weapons as another source of damage. This card doesn't answer the likes of Frothing Berserker or Bloodsail Cultist and also doesn't do anything at all to stop your opponent from using his/her weapon on your face. In other words, a taunt card could serve the same purpose. Is this card fantastic against aggro? Yes, it kills any and every single 1 and 2 drop under the sun that sees play in aggro decks save that 1 mana 1/1 with Divine Shield and is always something you're going to mulligan for, but it's not good in every single situation on turn 4 against aggro decks. Oh, yeah, and it still requires an activator after all of that.
I've played mid-range to legend more than once and it's my favorite type of deck. I would play the shit ouf of this card if I'd play a dragon deck. Fuck, I've played Shadowflame in my mid-range deck in the past to great success.
" It's a 4 mana 3/3 on turn 4, terrible for Tempo by itself "
how do you want me to agree with you when u are saying this.
What do you mean? On an empty board, it isn't good. Simple as that
To put it very simple: Hellfire is an okay card. It kills of the enemy board and provides some tempo by that. However, you cannot play much with it, in particularly not if you play it on turn 4 to kill some aggro-minions. But it is an okay tempo play.
Duskbreaker kills exactly the same minions as hellfire does, does not damage your own face (which is an advantage when you are playing against aggro) AND puts a 3/3 on the board. if that is not an tempo play, I don't know what is.
And if the opponent doesn't have a board, you can maybe play a Twilight Drake instead. Which would not have done anything to an existing board of the opponent.
My point is that it would be replacing Twilight Drake in your deck lol. I don't know how that isn't implied, especially since you can only have 30 cards in your deck, but I feel like you should know that.
So if your curve is 2-3-4 and this is your 4, wtf do you play? Have you ever actually played a Midrange deck before? OBVIOUSLY you wouldn't play this card the turn it's playable, but if you had a better statted 4-drop, you would play THAT the turn it's playable. If you have this card in your hand on turn 4, unless you have another one of your 3-4 4 drops in your hand, you're forced into playing a 3 drop or 2 drop (You likely wouldn't have two 2 drops available in this situation either). The situation that you're being beat on board is the ONLY time this card is better than a vanilla 4/5 and that's about it. If your opponent is going first and they played a 4 drop that has >3 hp, then guess what? This card trades evenly. And that's ONLY IF you have a Dragon in your hand, which again, isn't always the case. Trust me, I used to exclusively play Dragon Priest back when it had 10-12 Dragons in it and even then I would still sometimes be left with no activators for my cards. Because there are now less activators in Dragon Priest, this issue is even greater and requires cards that are put into the deck to be great even when there aren't any activators. Cobalt Scalebane is one such card and Drakonid Operative is another, as both are still decent/great when you don't have an activator. (And yes, I know Scalebane doesn't have an effect that is based on having an activator lol).
The ONLY matchup this card is really going to dominate and make a profound impact on the direction of the game on turn 4 is against aggro and even then almost every single 3 drop Pirate Warrior runs has 4 hp while also utilizing weapons as another source of damage. This card doesn't answer the likes of Frothing Berserker or Bloodsail Cultist and also doesn't do anything at all to stop your opponent from using his/her weapon on your face. In other words, a taunt card could serve the same purpose. Is this card fantastic against aggro? Yes, it kills any and every single 1 and 2 drop under the sun that sees play in aggro decks save that 1 mana 1/1 with Divine Shield and is always something you're going to mulligan for, but it's not good in every single situation on turn 4 against aggro decks. Oh, yeah, and it still requires an activator after all of that.
I've played mid-range to legend more than once and it's my favorite type of deck. I would play the shit ouf of this card if I'd play a dragon deck. Fuck, I've played Shadowflame in my mid-range deck in the past to great success.
I don't know how that argues a point though lol. Ad-hominem much? Also it would be a one-of in a midrange deck, but not a meta-breaking auto-include 2-of like everyone is saying it is going to be.
" It's a 4 mana 3/3 on turn 4, terrible for Tempo by itself "
how do you want me to agree with you when u are saying this.
What do you mean? On an empty board, it isn't good. Simple as that
To put it very simple: Hellfire is an okay card. It kills of the enemy board and provides some tempo by that. However, you cannot play much with it, in particularly not if you play it on turn 4 to kill some aggro-minions. But it is an okay tempo play.
Duskbreaker kills exactly the same minions as hellfire does, does not damage your own face (which is an advantage when you are playing against aggro) AND puts a 3/3 on the board. if that is not an tempo play, I don't know what is.
And if the opponent doesn't have a board, you can maybe play a Twilight Drake instead. Which would not have done anything to an existing board of the opponent.
My point is that it would be replacing Twilight Drake in your deck lol. I don't know how that isn't implied, especially since you can only have 30 cards in your deck, but I feel like you should know that.
That is a weird point. I wouldn’t replace twilight drake with it if I don’t have other good 4 drops. But build your deck like you want. Just don’t complain afterwards that you can’t make tempo plays on an empty board.
Yknow don’t have to list all the reasons why you’re wrong, the point is that the Duskbraker thread recorded statistics that say everyone disagrees with you
If you’re not auto-including Duskbreaker you’re gonna have a bad time
I don't know how that argues a point though lol. Ad-hominem much? Also it would be a one-of in a midrange deck, but not a meta-breaking auto-include 2-of like everyone is saying it is going to be.
I don't think you know what that means. In particular, seeing how you questioned if I even have played mid-range before.
It'll be a 2-off in every dragon deck, because it's too good not to play. It's also not just because it's a great card, but because it's a dragon itself, which makes it even more valuable. If it didn't have a dragon-tag, it could be argued that 2 might dilute the requirement too much, but that's not the case.
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If it were printed in a different meta, it would have made dragon priest insane, but if there's a control meta, the card is good but not great. It completely destroys aggro, the question is how often aggro will be played.
Should help vs evolve shaman, Hunter, murloc pally, and aggro druid.
That's a pretty big chunk of the meta. You might prefer to play a different card if you are mostly facing control and combo. So somewhat a meta call, but I can't remember a meta where I wouldn't want this when i was playing dragon priest.
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Aggro Druid may not be a viable deck now that duskbreaker can clean up the midgame and psychic scream pretty much ends the game if your opponent has spent their minion resources on board.
Whew, the OP obviously doesn't play a lot of Hearthstone. In the value for cost area of AoE removal, this is by far the best ever made. Not only is it a huge tempo swing when you use it(not on empty boards LMAO), but it helps priest have a 4 mana answer which has been lacking since Twilight Guardian left (another amazing priest bulwark during it's run). This not only helps dragon priest but also should allow a Dragon Raza deck to return to the meta. This card will be extremely powerful until it leaves and I expect lots of 2/4 minions in the next two expansions if this isn't nerfed. That's pretty damn meta defining.
One last note. This is the answer to long standing issues against shamans. So many times priest needed an exact set of answers to stop flametongue, mana tide, and primalfin totems. Two of these have been an issue since the game came out. Many times, turn 5 or 6 was just too slow or you needed a two card combo. Now, turn 4 is just right.
most clickbaity thread here and why it's this one
I found something that everyone missed - midrange decks DON'T rely on tempo, tempo decks do. Midrange decks rely on strong cards being able to be played without you having tempo on the board. As someone who played a ton of midrange druid pre-wrath, I can say that until around turn 4-5 you weren't getting any tempo and your best play was wild growth on 2 into keeper of the grove/piloted shredder into druid of the claw, and that rarely happened. You don't rely on tempo in midrange - you rely on value and pressure. Duskbringer is one of the best value cards that fits in midrange, and saying it isn't good is like saying dr. boom isn't good.
@OP
Your thread name and post do not match. Saying that Duskbreaker is the most overrated card, makes it look like you think it is not good. This is considering past ratings, where meta defining rated cards saw zero play. Maybe stay away from the hyperboles and click-bait titles next time, to get a better discussion about your subject.
Probably Hunter legendary because it's a hunter legendary.
I'll craft mine day one tho...
Yknow don’t have to list all the reasons why you’re wrong, the point is that the Duskbraker thread recorded statistics that say everyone disagrees with you
If you’re not auto-including Duskbreaker you’re gonna have a bad time
Kingsbane + Valeera the Hollow makes Rogue immune to mill...enough said.