My head is hurting right now and it's too hard for me to think. Can anyone please justify a spot for this card I'm any sort of rogue deck? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but it's obviously worse than ice block because if you're at 1 health this card is absolutely useless. So can someone explain scenarios where this effect is useful?
Thank you in advance
When you are not going to die in one hit, and you are going to take lots of damage from multiple sources. If they can't kill you in one hit, it gives you an extra turn
A few examples
If they have a lot of minions on the board
Bloodlust
If you're at 7 hp against a burn mage
Fighting a non quest freeze mage, and they're about to bust you down
If a razakus priest is about to bust you down
When an agro deck has a lot of damage on board
It's like ice block, but takes more skill and is less unfun
What the fuck are they doing? They gave Ice block to Rogues. The fucking psychopaths. It's all over now. Game Over
here's the difference. if you play this turn 2 and the enemy pings you for 1 then that secret did nothing.
Well then you obviously don't fucking play it whenever you have 2 mana. You play it when you're going to die. That's the whole point of Ice Block.
Obviously this card is slightly worse but it's still an Ice Block for Rogue which alone makes it so good it can single handedly break Miracle again.
It's good for sure, but the difference is you can play Ice Block on turn 3, but you can't (really) play this on turn 2. I'm not certain how good the Rogue secrets are, collectively. They all serve different enough functions that they aren't really secret (but that doesn't stop secrets from being powerful in Mage, so that may be irrelevant). Not sure where they'd fit in current Rogue decks....but they might allow for an entirely new Rogue archetype.
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This makes the other secrets so much better. Now when the rogue has a secret you have to make an important choice. You either attack with your biggest minion to avoid this secret, but then risking triggering the "hit your neighbors" secret, or you attack with your smallest minion to play around hitting your own minions but then lose out on going face that turn. This was the secret Rogue needed to make this mechanic work for them.
What the fuck are they doing? They gave Ice block to Rogues. The fucking psychopaths. It's all over now. Game Over
here's the difference. if you play this turn 2 and the enemy pings you for 1 then that secret did nothing.
Well then you obviously don't fucking play it whenever you have 2 mana. You play it when you're going to die. That's the whole point of Ice Block.
Obviously this card is slightly worse but it's still an Ice Block for Rogue which alone makes it so good it can single handedly break Miracle again.
It's good for sure, but the difference is you can play Ice Block on turn 3, but you can't (really) play this on turn 2. I'm not certain how good the Rogue secrets are, collectively. They all serve different enough functions that they aren't really secret (but that doesn't stop secrets from being powerful in Mage, so that may be irrelevant). Not sure where they'd fit in current Rogue decks....but they might allow for an entirely new Rogue archetype.
I am going to try it in my Token Rogue deck. It'll be a bit slow to start I think and needs time to really get rolling. This card is, in some ways, better than iceblock and other ways worse. The deck I have in mind will make heavy use of Fal'dorei Strider and maybe jade generation. As a Jade Rogue player now (one of my favorite decks) often times I just need a few turns to slow down incoming damage so I can concentrate on turns where I am setting up my tokens. The new deck will be similar but with Fal'dorei Strider the board builds itself eventually, just needs time to get there.
People's comparison to iceblock in this case is a bit too literal. Since it's not an iceblock you can play this any time you want to prevent a large damage turn from multiple sources, not just to prevent lethal. Iceblock has only ONE purpose to prevent lethal, that is it. This however is more here to just prevent damage, lethal or otherwise. So this card has more flexibility than iceblock while being worse at the specific thing iceblock looks to do.
We shouldn't look at this card as a lethal preventer as rogues, we should look at it as a stall tool to get to our win conditions.
I don't think this will see play. Much weaker than ice block and also mill has no use for this since it doesn't triggger on your own turn. It is more like a weaker frost nova tbf.
No offense but it's not like a weaker frost nova. This makes you immune to burn damage and charge damage while allowing your opponent's minions to still trade and it's triggered on their turn instead of yours, giving them the opportunity to play around it in ways. Sure it's a stall tool like Frost Nova but I wouldn't compare the two.
As for the comment that mill has no use for it, that's not true at all. Sure, you can't use it to dodge fatigue but we already have two tools that let us do that for 3 mana each (Shadowblade and Violet Illusionist). The purpose of this card is to stall another turn against midrange/aggro/board-based decks. Mill is all about stalling and this card is exceptional at it. Buying another turn is precisely what mill rogue needs and is one of the reasons that they play Valeera regardless of the huge price.
Unless I'm missing something, this is a much worse Ice Block? Ice Block can save you from fatal damage no matter what your health. With this card, if the you're at 10 and the opponent Pyroblasts you, you're dead and the secret did nothing.
It's a 2 mana semi-heal that doesn't effect the board state and is easy to play around. That's not a great secret. Ice Block is a guaranteed "You live another turn" that there's not much you can do to play around. Nothing like each other.
Unless I'm missing something, this is a much worse Ice Block? Ice Block can save you from fatal damage no matter what your health. With this card, if the you're at 10 and the opponent Pyroblasts you, you're dead and the secret did nothing.
It's a 2 mana semi-heal that doesn't effect the board state and is easy to play around. That's not a great secret. Ice Block is a guaranteed "You live another turn" that there's not much you can do to play around. Nothing like each other.
You're issue here is that you are trying to fit what is NOT an iceblock into an iceblock role. This CAN save you from lethal if played on the right turn, but it's main function is only to prevent damage, not necessarily to prevent lethal damage. While it's not a set and forget like Ice Block, which make it worse than ice block at preventing lethal damage on their next turn, it is far better at actually preventing large amounts of damage.
For example if an opponent has a board of minions that can do 20 damage to you and you are 25 health. If you have iceblock out, you may still take all 20 damage. Sure, they don't pop your block but the damage is done and they are that much closer. With this you'll actually prevent a lot of that damage because after the first minion attacks it pops this secret.
Iceblock is better at preventing LEATHAL damage, but not good at preventing damage. This is better at preventing damage but harder to leverage at preventing lethal damage.
I think Ice block is a little better because you can play block in advanced and not worry about it. This card might be a little closer to barrier in that it heals you for a certain amount. It's definitely got the fell of a bit of both. Since this card is one mana cheaper than ice block I'm going to rate it at 4 stars, may see play now or in the future but definitely not a meta defining card.
Also love how this card works with sudden betrayal. With this they want to hit with their biggest minion first, with sudden betrayal they want to hit with their smallest. I'm not really feeling the rogue secrets but the design is good.
What the fuck are they doing? They gave Ice block to Rogues. The fucking psychopaths. It's all over now. Game Over
here's the difference. if you play this turn 2 and the enemy pings you for 1 then that secret did nothing.
Well then you obviously don't fucking play it whenever you have 2 mana. You play it when you're going to die. That's the whole point of Ice Block.
Obviously this card is slightly worse but it's still an Ice Block for Rogue which alone makes it so good it can single handedly break Miracle again.
Holy shit this guy is an idiot. Are you just going to plan on keeping this otherwise dead card in your hand the entire game until the turn before you think you're going to receive lethal damage? Just wait until they show lethal on board and then play this, otherwise don't, great plan. Card is not ice block. With ice block you don't have to think about whether or not the opponent cant deal lethal from hand.
It's not just a ghetto iceblock, but you can use it just to prevent a huge chunk of damage on any turn. Mill Rogue can use these to let the opponent load up the board for a big vanish.
Are people really suggesting this is "weaker" than Ice Block? Holy crap, my head.
Here's an extremely common situation. Your opponent has a 5 attack minion, a 4 attack minion, a 3 attack minion, and a 1 damage hero power. You have 10 life.
Ice Block: Opponent hits you to one life, then pops ice block. You're at one life.
This card: Opponent hits you with the 5 attack minion, or potentially the 3 attack one to play around Sudden Betrayal. This triggers. You're at 5 or 7 life.
Saying "They can just ping you and the secret is wasted!" is completely missing the point. They have 13 damage on the board, if they ping you for 1 the secret is not wasted - they lost 12 damage. In this case, this secret, at 1 mana less than Iceblock, saved you from more damage.
This is an absolutely amazing card and you do not understand this game if you think otherwise.
Are people really suggesting this is "weaker" than Ice Block? Holy crap, my head.
Here's an extremely common situation. Your opponent has a 5 attack minion, a 4 attack minion, a 3 attack minion, and a 1 damage hero power. You have 10 life.
Ice Block: Opponent hits you to one life, then pops ice block. You're at one life.
This card: Opponent hits you with the 5 attack minion, or potentially the 3 attack one to play around Sudden Betrayal. This triggers. You're at 5 or 7 life.
Saying "They can just ping you and the secret is wasted!" is completely missing the point. They have 13 damage on the board, if they ping you for 1 the secret is not wasted - they lost 12 damage. In this case, this secret, at 1 mana less than Iceblock, saved you from more damage.
This is an absolutely amazing card and you do not understand this game if you think otherwise.
i couldnt agree more!!! you said everything i think about this card! definitely going to play it on my miracle rogue
Nah, it happened often enough, that you are close to lethal - but so is he. Just imagine, the opponent popped an Ice Block. You were able to bring him down to 1 health. He is not. This may make the difference if you draw into a boardclear (not that often, but it does happen) - in an ice block situation, you would be kiled by the next ping. With this secret, there is a high chance that you have more than 1 life, making a huge difference.
You can't say that it is better / worse than ice block, IMO. There are cases where Ice Block is far better, no questions asked, but it does cost 1 more as well. And there are other possibilites where Evasion is superior.
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Give me one good reason not to put this in every deck
Nice for Reno Rogue.
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This makes the other secrets so much better. Now when the rogue has a secret you have to make an important choice. You either attack with your biggest minion to avoid this secret, but then risking triggering the "hit your neighbors" secret, or you attack with your smallest minion to play around hitting your own minions but then lose out on going face that turn. This was the secret Rogue needed to make this mechanic work for them.
Is this worth dropping Kelseth for?
ice block for rogues.well played Ben.
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Unless I'm missing something, this is a much worse Ice Block? Ice Block can save you from fatal damage no matter what your health. With this card, if the you're at 10 and the opponent Pyroblasts you, you're dead and the secret did nothing.
It's a 2 mana semi-heal that doesn't effect the board state and is easy to play around. That's not a great secret. Ice Block is a guaranteed "You live another turn" that there's not much you can do to play around. Nothing like each other.
I think Ice block is a little better because you can play block in advanced and not worry about it. This card might be a little closer to barrier in that it heals you for a certain amount. It's definitely got the fell of a bit of both. Since this card is one mana cheaper than ice block I'm going to rate it at 4 stars, may see play now or in the future but definitely not a meta defining card.
Also love how this card works with sudden betrayal. With this they want to hit with their biggest minion first, with sudden betrayal they want to hit with their smallest. I'm not really feeling the rogue secrets but the design is good.
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It's not just a ghetto iceblock, but you can use it just to prevent a huge chunk of damage on any turn. Mill Rogue can use these to let the opponent load up the board for a big vanish.
Are people really suggesting this is "weaker" than Ice Block? Holy crap, my head.
Here's an extremely common situation. Your opponent has a 5 attack minion, a 4 attack minion, a 3 attack minion, and a 1 damage hero power. You have 10 life.
Ice Block: Opponent hits you to one life, then pops ice block. You're at one life.
This card: Opponent hits you with the 5 attack minion, or potentially the 3 attack one to play around Sudden Betrayal. This triggers. You're at 5 or 7 life.
Saying "They can just ping you and the secret is wasted!" is completely missing the point. They have 13 damage on the board, if they ping you for 1 the secret is not wasted - they lost 12 damage. In this case, this secret, at 1 mana less than Iceblock, saved you from more damage.
This is an absolutely amazing card and you do not understand this game if you think otherwise.
Nah, it happened often enough, that you are close to lethal - but so is he. Just imagine, the opponent popped an Ice Block. You were able to bring him down to 1 health. He is not. This may make the difference if you draw into a boardclear (not that often, but it does happen) - in an ice block situation, you would be kiled by the next ping. With this secret, there is a high chance that you have more than 1 life, making a huge difference.
You can't say that it is better / worse than ice block, IMO. There are cases where Ice Block is far better, no questions asked, but it does cost 1 more as well. And there are other possibilites where Evasion is superior.