Everyone (or almost) commented badly, or at least "mah, another meme card for control Hunter?". I honestly disagree and I consider it a strong card, even in a current mid-range.
Why?
8 mana, 6-6 that as Battlecry and Deathrattle evokes a beast from its deck. Consider a mid-range Hunter whatever, even fast, with single Savannah Highmane. The average beast in the deck costs about 2.5 mana. In stats, consider an average of 3-3 (possibly with Deathrattle: Kindly Grandmother, Savannah Highmane and any other current or future cards, such as Rat Pack) (possibly not targetable, Bearshark).
It means that on average, over the long run, you play for 8 mana a 6-6 and a 3-3 possibly with side effects.
It means that in the middle case, 6-6 says "Hello, I am the sister of Savannah Highmane ", that is a 6-6 deathrattle (non beast) that evokes a beast on average 3-3 (always with any side effects) . 9mana, evokes a 3-3 and a 6-6 Savannah Highmane non-beast. This is in average cases by looking at Hunter's lists.
-> "Meh, a drop 3-3 worth 3 mana (maybe), Savannah Highmane is worth 6 mana (nice joke), 1 mana of gain does not justify the slot at 8mana in the Hunter!"
-> That's true, but when this card goes wrong, you evoke for 8 mana a 1-1 beast and a 6-6 that evokes a 1-1 beast, something that is worth (in Hunter) as 6 mana. When you are lucky and summon a Savannah Highmane from Battlecry or Deathrattle, you win the game.
Are you really sure that it's a meme control card Hunter, and are not that a couple of tricks to make the card absolutely consistent?
I tried to consider the Dog's deck (top 50 legend, HERE), and I calculated average and percentages with the beasts that were runned.
I've built a deck to expain my purpose: LINK . A solid deck, with no exploited mechanics. Only a base. Cobalt Scalebanes are not core cards, but i like them. You can consider something else.
The meta isn't good for it. Winterwisp is potentially a lot of value for a slower midrange hunter, but "value" in the traditional sense doesn't matter right now because it's impossible to outvalue razakus priest or jade druid. If the game is still slow when Gadgetzan rotates, I think Kathrena could see a lot of play.
tl;dr strong card but not what hunter needs right now
The problem is, you have to play some kind of control hunter or midrange hunter. This hunter deck will struggle against any aggro deck and any tempo deck. Against other control or midrange deck, this hunter deck won't have off the charts win rates either.
For example, let's say you could have winterwisp right now, and make a sick control/midrange hunter deck with it. How would it do on ladder?
My guess is that it will struggle against: -Tempo rogue (just overruns it) -Highlander priest (To many stuff to control the board early, superior in the late game) -Zoolock (How does hunter clear his board the second, third and fourth time?) -Aggro druid (Just overruns it) -Big druid (Might do good against it, but with a good ramp and spreading plague, i dont see a controlmid hunter do much better then 50%)
Winterwisp is 8 mana, but doessnt win you the game. Therefore you need another win condition, and in the current meta, and probbably the next meta, value is a bad win condition.(unless you are druid)
According Vicious Syndacate, against Highlander Priest is like 50/50 tbh.
Obviously it's NOT a great meta for hunter, but you cannot judge a card considering the meta...i mean, as the Paladin DK... the card is good but it's not played!
It's not used because it's a single target! Why do you play savannah highmane and think that it's one of the best card in the game? It's a 6 mana 6-5 ... slow for hunter. Or not? :)
According Vicious Syndacate, against Highlander Priest is like 50/50 tbh.
Obviously it's NOT a great meta for hunter, but you cannot judge a card considering the meta...i mean, as the Paladin DK... the card is good but it's not played!
Would not have expected that, but that's okay ;)
The problem I see, it's not this meta, or the next, it's everyone. Hunter just doessnt have the cards to make a control card. Priest, warrior and druid will almost always have better cards to make a control deck and hunter will always be tier 3-4 if they try to make a control deck.
As for midrange. Maybe, winterwisp could find it's place in a high tempo midrange deck. Cards like tracking could make sure you can play on curve almost every turn, you can throw away your shitty beasts, and winterwisp could be the nail in the coffin for your opponent.
According Vicious Syndacate, against Highlander Priest is like 50/50 tbh.
Obviously it's NOT a great meta for hunter, but you cannot judge a card considering the meta...i mean, as the Paladin DK... the card is good but it's not played!
Would not have expected that, but that's okay ;)
The problem I see, it's not this meta, or the next, it's everyone. Hunter just doessnt have the cards to make a control card. Priest, warrior and druid will almost always have better cards to make a control deck and hunter will always be tier 3-4 if they try to make a control deck.
As for midrange. Maybe, winterwisp could find it's place in a high tempo midrange deck. Cards like tracking could make sure you can play on curve almost every turn, you can throw away your shitty beasts, and winterwisp could be the nail in the coffin for your opponent.
Ye that is what i mean! Obviously your game plays slows down a bit, but i don't want to build a CONTROL deck, but a midrange one! And with Tracking you can find your core cards playing on curve every turn, filtering your deck discarding useless cards for the situation
It's funny how people are comparing pre-nerf CotW and Kathrena, and still claim that Kathrena sucks. Don't you see that she is literally a call of the wild with bigger board impact, bigger reach, and deck thinning. I mean, at this point, don't you have eyes or something? Read the card please? If you say something about alleycat I'll be pissed. Don't.
Well, don't overestimate the card. It DOESN'T have more reach that CoW. For sure more deck thinning. More board impact i don't think so, but it could be. CoW was insanely consistent
It's not used because it's a single target! Why do you play savannah highmane and think that it's one of the best card in the game? It's a 6 mana 6-5 ... slow for hunter. Or not? :)
You forgot the other half of the card. It also has a deathrattle that will keep up the pressure once it dies.
It's like saying "Why do you play Tirion Fordring and think that it's one of the best cards in the game? It's a 8 mana 6/6 with divine shield"
Ignoring half the card makes you evaluate it wrongly.
As people have said, the problem isn't the card itself (which is great) but how the rest of the class fits around it. If they print some really strong midrangey/control hunter cards with the rest of the expansion, she will doubtless see play.
It's funny how people are comparing pre-nerf CotW and Kathrena, and still claim that Kathrena sucks. Don't you see that she is literally a call of the wild with bigger board impact, bigger reach, and deck thinning. I mean, at this point, don't you have eyes or something? Read the card please? If you say something about alleycat I'll be pissed. Don't.
Well, don't overestimate the card. It DOESN'T have more reach that CoW. For sure more deck thinning. More board impact i don't think so, but it could be. CoW was insanely consistent
In my book, 7 damage + 7 more damage when she dies, is more reach than 5 damage. Don't know about your book, but 14 is definitely bigger than 5.
Well, you consider the ideal case, but hearthstone is based on the average dude
It's funny how people are comparing pre-nerf CotW and Kathrena, and still claim that Kathrena sucks. Don't you see that she is literally a call of the wild with bigger board impact, bigger reach, and deck thinning. I mean, at this point, don't you have eyes or something? Read the card please? If you say something about alleycat I'll be pissed. Don't.
Deck thinning is only good if you're getting rid of bad topdekcs. In this case you're either recruiting bad beasts and then getting better topdecks or recruiting big beasts but losing good topdecks. I think it's a cool and playable card, but deck thinning isn't an argument for it.
It's not used because it's a single target! Why do you play savannah highmane and think that it's one of the best card in the game? It's a 6 mana 6-5 ... slow for hunter. Or not? :)
You forgot the other half of the card. It also has a deathrattle that will keep up the pressure once it dies.
It's like saying "Why do you play Tirion Fordring and think that it's one of the best cards in the game? It's a 8 mana 6/6 with divine shield"
Ignoring half the card makes you evaluate it wrongly.
It's funny how people are comparing pre-nerf CotW and Kathrena, and still claim that Kathrena sucks. Don't you see that she is literally a call of the wild with bigger board impact, bigger reach, and deck thinning. I mean, at this point, don't you have eyes or something? Read the card please? If you say something about alleycat I'll be pissed. Don't.
Well, don't overestimate the card. It DOESN'T have more reach that CoW. For sure more deck thinning. More board impact i don't think so, but it could be. CoW was insanely consistent
In my book, 7 damage + 7 more damage when she dies, is more reach than 5 damage. Don't know about your book, but 14 is definitely bigger than 5.
Well, you consider the ideal case, but hearthstone is based on the average dude
Nope, ideal case is 15 damage with king Krush. 14 damage with double charged devilsaurs is actually the average, "dude"
Well, try to build that deck and post it here, so we can see.
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(SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH!!!)
Kathrena Winterwisp.
Everyone (or almost) commented badly, or at least "mah, another meme card for control Hunter?". I honestly disagree and I consider it a strong card, even in a current mid-range.
Why?
8 mana, 6-6 that as Battlecry and Deathrattle evokes a beast from its deck. Consider a mid-range Hunter whatever, even fast, with single Savannah Highmane. The average beast in the deck costs about 2.5 mana. In stats, consider an average of 3-3 (possibly with Deathrattle: Kindly Grandmother, Savannah Highmane and any other current or future cards, such as Rat Pack) (possibly not targetable, Bearshark).
It means that on average, over the long run, you play for 8 mana a 6-6 and a 3-3 possibly with side effects.
It means that in the middle case, 6-6 says "Hello, I am the sister of Savannah Highmane ", that is a 6-6 deathrattle (non beast) that evokes a beast on average 3-3 (always with any side effects) . 9mana, evokes a 3-3 and a 6-6 Savannah Highmane non-beast. This is in average cases by looking at Hunter's lists.
-> "Meh, a drop 3-3 worth 3 mana (maybe), Savannah Highmane is worth 6 mana (nice joke), 1 mana of gain does not justify the slot at 8mana in the Hunter!"
Are you really sure that it's a meme control card Hunter, and are not that a couple of tricks to make the card absolutely consistent?
I tried to consider the Dog's deck (top 50 legend, HERE), and I calculated average and percentages with the beasts that were runned.
I've built a deck to expain my purpose: LINK . A solid deck, with no exploited mechanics. Only a base.
Cobalt Scalebanes are not core cards, but i like them. You can consider something else.
If your goal is to kill enemy pre turn 7 an 8 mana card is kinda pointless i guess.
Turn 8 is simply just too late for face or midrange.
And control hunter isnt thing yet.
I would give blizzard my house and all my money if they removed priest from the game.
Turn 8 is not too late for a midrange, maybe for an aggro, but now hunters even run the DK (master slow card)...
Its not that its a bad card, it just requires alot of make it work.
U need to remove most of your early game beasts, which is a problem as hunter relies very heavily on that.
By removing early games beasts you cant run Houndmaster.
You need to be playing more midranage/ control and control hunter is too clanky still.
Has potential as a card, but not fitting into any hunter decks really atm.
The meta isn't good for it. Winterwisp is potentially a lot of value for a slower midrange hunter, but "value" in the traditional sense doesn't matter right now because it's impossible to outvalue razakus priest or jade druid. If the game is still slow when Gadgetzan rotates, I think Kathrena could see a lot of play.
tl;dr strong card but not what hunter needs right now
Vvreeeew.
It is definitely an interesting card, possibly valuable in average.
But the real point is the (8). Turn 8 is late for Midrange Hunter.
That is, Kathrena tends to shift you towards a slower version of Midrange, say, similarly to Lightlord in Paladin.
Which is not necessarily bad, but historically bad for Hunter, so far.
The problem is, you have to play some kind of control hunter or midrange hunter. This hunter deck will struggle against any aggro deck and any tempo deck. Against other control or midrange deck, this hunter deck won't have off the charts win rates either.
For example, let's say you could have winterwisp right now, and make a sick control/midrange hunter deck with it. How would it do on ladder?
My guess is that it will struggle against:
-Tempo rogue (just overruns it)
-Highlander priest (To many stuff to control the board early, superior in the late game)
-Zoolock (How does hunter clear his board the second, third and fourth time?)
-Aggro druid (Just overruns it)
-Big druid (Might do good against it, but with a good ramp and spreading plague, i dont see a controlmid hunter do much better then 50%)
Winterwisp is 8 mana, but doessnt win you the game. Therefore you need another win condition, and in the current meta, and probbably the next meta, value is a bad win condition.(unless you are druid)
.
According Vicious Syndacate, against Highlander Priest is like 50/50 tbh.
Obviously it's NOT a great meta for hunter, but you cannot judge a card considering the meta...i mean, as the Paladin DK... the card is good but it's not played!
Kathrena will get value on mid-control deck, possibly nzoth hunter.
There are multiple options on discover drama, such as king krush, savannah, bearshark and many other wonderful beasts.
I think we'll see some other aoe removal for rexxar
It's not used because it's a single target! Why do you play savannah highmane and think that it's one of the best card in the game? It's a 6 mana 6-5 ... slow for hunter. Or not? :)
.
As people have said, the problem isn't the card itself (which is great) but how the rest of the class fits around it. If they print some really strong midrangey/control hunter cards with the rest of the expansion, she will doubtless see play.