If we had no good neutral AOE then none of them would see any play at all. Doomsayer sees a ton of play, even though it can sometimes be gotten past, and Deathwing sees play in Big Druid, where it accomplishes its intended goal of helping a class that has a hard time clearing the board with clearing the board.
I guess the problem with a neutral board clear depends on what sort of clear it is.
If it's an anti-aggro clear, it probably just destroys aggro because every control deck would just run two (or 1 legendary). If you defeat aggro in the early game then they just lose. A clear of this type would be op.
If it's a control type clear, then nobody cares because control usually has plenty of options to clear anyway. Because it's control.
So it doesn't really matter what class we're talking about (though druid would be more ridiculous with a proper clear).
That said, if we had so much diversity that neutral clears, hunter control, fatigue shaman and any other current unviable archetype you can imagine was playable, then exactly what countered what would matter a lot less.
This is indirectly just another salt thread about aggro. The game needs aggro to stay balanced. Aggro, midrange and control is like a rock paper scissors game. If we take away rock (aggro) all we are left with is paper (midrange) and scissors (control) and then no one will ever pick paper cause its a guaranteed loss. The game will be only control and go to shit.
no, we're not. at the bare minimum, for the health of the game we need better class aoe.
For mage sure. But for priest there are enough high quality aoes, so many that priest can already easily shut aggros down. You don’t want a meta where there are only big priests and Highlander priests. Believe me.
Priest has single target removal, a class aoe which is hot garbage at this point and does't see play, a two different 4 mana aoe's that require two cards so they're kind of clunky, and a 6 mana aoe that can't deal with scalebane.
no, class cards are NOT keeping pace with neutral minions.
you sound like legend no.1. maybe think again.
tf kind of reply is that.
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If we had no good neutral AOE then none of them would see any play at all. Doomsayer sees a ton of play, even though it can sometimes be gotten past, and Deathwing sees play in Big Druid, where it accomplishes its intended goal of helping a class that has a hard time clearing the board with clearing the board.
Druid has ramp, which means Deathwing doesn't truly cost 10 mana.
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no, we're not. at the bare minimum, for the health of the game we need better class aoe.
For mage sure. But for priest there are enough high quality aoes, so many that priest can already easily shut aggros down. You don’t want a meta where there are only big priests and Highlander priests. Believe me.
Priest has single target removal, a class aoe which is hot garbage at this point and does't see play, a two different 4 mana aoe's that require two cards so they're kind of clunky, and a 6 mana aoe that can't deal with scalebane.
no, class cards are NOT keeping pace with neutral minions.
you sound like legend no.1. maybe think again.
tf kind of reply is that.
I have the same question for you. Why did you claim sth like you are 100% correct? Why highlander priests and big priests being so strong in meta?
Is anything I stated in the post you replied to inaccurate? What does that have to do with Razakus and Big Priest?
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*if you draw well, which can be said about every deck ever. The solution to aggro is not "play big priest/razakus" because the solution to razakus/big priest is "play aggro."
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*if you draw well, which can be said about every deck ever. The solution to aggro is not "play big priest/razakus" because the solution to razakus/big priest is "play aggro."
thats absolutely not true. they are only weak to midrange decks. maybe they draw well they can win.
*if you draw well, which can be said about every deck ever. The solution to aggro is not "play big priest/razakus" because the solution to razakus/big priest is "play aggro."
thats absolutely not true. they are only weak to midrange decks. maybe they draw well they can win.
Only aggro deck Razakus is favored against is Token Druid, which makes sense.
Ive played enough razakus to know that I'm always happy to see aggro (besides Hunter and pirate warrior). The reason why vicious syndicate put razakus at tier 3, and they'll say this themselves, is not because razakus is actually that bad, but because it requires a lot of experience and skill with playing the deck. A good player can get an absurd winrate playing razakus optimally. The stats mean nothing.
this is what i was saying when everyone was complaining about every deck using yogg (before its nerf) there was literal no AoE in the game and aggro ran way too rampant, the only real board clear was to "Yogg'n' pray",but people kept complainng and thanks to the yogg nerf we had one of the most shitty metas hearthstone ever had, until gadgetzan printed Reno jackson support and gave AoE to some classes, but in the other hand, what this idea's detractor are saying is actually true as well...a neutral powerful board clear will give classes that already have a good almost everything, the tools to actually be oppressive, so the solution is giving good board clears to classes that actually need it, or make Spreading Plague into a 5 mana neutral
I mean, a card like that could counter defensive control decks (aka my wild control warrior... rip my gameplay xD) and other expensive decks like Big Priest/Druid, Alarm Druid and Jade Druid (no offense Druid). This would convince people to run budget aggro decks way more, however. Yet to be fair, a card like this would be weak to Lockdown Priest :D
doomsayer - common to be able to deal with it as early as turn 2 these days
explosive sheep - wild only
corrupted seer - turn 6 2-dmg aoe is a joke and this card sees no play whatsover
abomination - 5 mana 0/1 frog with taunt
we have.....no good neutral aoe
I think that for a control deck that really needs AOE in the early game, tentacle of n'zoth should be good enough. Its just that lists are too tight to run a card that is horrible against anything but aggro.
*if you draw well, which can be said about every deck ever. The solution to aggro is not "play big priest/razakus" because the solution to razakus/big priest is "play aggro."
thats absolutely not true. they are only weak to midrange decks. maybe they draw well they can win.
If we had no good neutral AOE then none of them would see any play at all. Doomsayer sees a ton of play, even though it can sometimes be gotten past, and Deathwing sees play in Big Druid, where it accomplishes its intended goal of helping a class that has a hard time clearing the board with clearing the board.
I guess the problem with a neutral board clear depends on what sort of clear it is.
If it's an anti-aggro clear, it probably just destroys aggro because every control deck would just run two (or 1 legendary). If you defeat aggro in the early game then they just lose. A clear of this type would be op.
If it's a control type clear, then nobody cares because control usually has plenty of options to clear anyway. Because it's control.
So it doesn't really matter what class we're talking about (though druid would be more ridiculous with a proper clear).
That said, if we had so much diversity that neutral clears, hunter control, fatigue shaman and any other current unviable archetype you can imagine was playable, then exactly what countered what would matter a lot less.
This is indirectly just another salt thread about aggro. The game needs aggro to stay balanced. Aggro, midrange and control is like a rock paper scissors game. If we take away rock (aggro) all we are left with is paper (midrange) and scissors (control) and then no one will ever pick paper cause its a guaranteed loss. The game will be only control and go to shit.
That's Incredible!
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*if you draw well, which can be said about every deck ever. The solution to aggro is not "play big priest/razakus" because the solution to razakus/big priest is "play aggro."
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TIL I'm wrong and contribute nothing.
bye guys
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this is what i was saying when everyone was complaining about every deck using yogg (before its nerf) there was literal no AoE in the game and aggro ran way too rampant, the only real board clear was to "Yogg'n' pray",but people kept complainng and thanks to the yogg nerf we had one of the most shitty metas hearthstone ever had, until gadgetzan printed Reno jackson support and gave AoE to some classes, but in the other hand, what this idea's detractor are saying is actually true as well...a neutral powerful board clear will give classes that already have a good almost everything, the tools to actually be oppressive, so the solution is giving good board clears to classes that actually need it, or make Spreading Plague into a 5 mana neutral
I mean, a card like that could counter defensive control decks (aka my wild control warrior... rip my gameplay xD) and other expensive decks like Big Priest/Druid, Alarm Druid and Jade Druid (no offense Druid). This would convince people to run budget aggro decks way more, however. Yet to be fair, a card like this would be weak to Lockdown Priest :D
the question was whether or not razakus beat aggro. not whether or not razakus is a combo.
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So many people trying to argue for something that they can’t :)
OP: There is no neutral sweepers.
Guy 1: There actually is. Sheep, Abomination, Doomsayer, Seer etc.
Guy 2: They are only legal in Wild, they suck and they can be Hexed.
Logic: WTF Guy 2 :) That’s not the point. They exist and that’s all that matters.