Its just unfortunate that as a hunter I can’t clear 3 6mana minions with 10mana worth of spells, never mind on turn 5,6,or 7. I do get that control hunter isn’t a thing and I should be going lethal by that turn is I was playing a competitive deck. But I love the DK power. It so fun.
Dopplegangster into Evolve isnt broken. Its a feels bad combo, it feels awful when it happens, you have a massive board to deal with, and it feels like shit. There are dozens of things in HS that make people feel this way, on both personal and over-arching levels. Good example is a druid playing t1 flappy bird. How do you beat that? Well, you have a hand that can, or you lose. Thats a t1 combo that only happens when they go second, have at least 1 innervate, and the bird. Face that against a combo like Dopplegangster and Evolve, where they have 5-6 turns and a mulligan to draw into those cards, have to survive and stay ahead on board until that point, and must still have a hint of luck not to get some of those 6 mana 1/1's or 2/3's, and then you have a combo that can often be beaten by a blizzard or a doomsayer frost nova or equality consec or a twisting nether. Yes, it is a death sentence against midrange and a poorly drawn aggro deck, but that doesnt mean its broken. Its complex rock paper scissors. Its a feel bad combo, not a broken one, and while they SHOULD avoid feel bad combos, it wont get nerfed or ban hammered, because its only 3 cards that evolve and 1 below average card that enables it, as long as you're even on board, and if you're not, then their combo is either worse or exponentially better, respectively. TL:DR, its a feel bad combo that wont bet nerfed because at best its 2nd tier WITH the DK that relies on a small pool of enablers and payoffs
Yeah you're right, brawl and twisting nether are very much a part of this meta! ROFL
um most zoolocks and control warriors run brawl and twisting nether. dopple gangster evolve needs no nerfing its very common to get unlucky, and its really a highroll cause most evolve shamans have no cards in their hand after they evolve doppl
Control warrior is basically non-existent in the meta, and I have never in my life seen a zoo deck that ran twisting nether.
To whomever said evolve shaman didn't take off until KOFT, is clearly wrong. It was figured out about a month after Un'Goro released and the meta stabalized. Then it was put together and it was T1 for a long while.
Dopple/evolve isn't broken. Sure, sometimes high roll happens, which, sometimes you can't do anything about. If you control the early board, then by turn 6 their dopple/evolve won't matter much. If they even have it by then. Pretty sure I have almost never kept dopple/evolve in any of my mully hands. You literally have 3 cards to evolve that matter. The rest of the deck is token. AOE wipes are a thing. DF potion/flamestrike/sw:horror/(spreading plague is blizz's druid's ver of aoe), etc.
Also I have maybe played against one or two evolve shamans in the last 3-4 days (been playing at least 2-3hrs a day on ladder.) Been mostly running into tempo rogue, kazakus priest, secret mage, jades, and zoolock. You really think shaman is the problem here?
Evolve Shaman is quite literally one of the easiest decks to beat as long as you don't get screwed by RNG. Keep their board clear until T6, then deal with 3 minions, 1 of which will usually be fairly weak. Half the time the Shaman will concede if you clear those minions.
This is how you dismantle a Shaman ... never give them anything to work with.
EDIT** Here is a better example, since this topic is specifically about dopple>evolve. Same concept though ... keep the board clear, and deal with the evolve when it comes.
THANK YOU for finally pointing this out. Dopple + evolve, is one of the stupidest things in the game, and although it's not the most broken deck in the game, it's still extremely oppressive to shaman. I kid you not, i played over 400 games since frozen throne came out. I DID NOT GO AGAINST ONE SINGLE SHAMAN THAT WASN'T EVOLVE SHAMAN. NOT EVEN ON THE FIRST DAY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. That's how stupid this game is now. Until they nerf that or it rotates out, you will not see shaman do anything else. I tried playing other shaman decks, and you get annihilated by everything. You have no win condition vs big priest/raza priest, and jade druid, you don't have enough pressure against time warp mage, and you get out-tempoed by rogue, so you literally have to abuse the broken combo to win, and it's annoying and frustrating to play against, and when you play as it, it's completely uninteractive. Thank goodness they nerfed Hex though because big minion decks like big priest and big druid aren't strong enough.
This is the reason why the meta always gets worse after every patch: because the people on the forums all complain about 1 deck/class even though the top net decks are all oppressive. People think the game would be perfect if there was 1 deck for all 9 classes that had equal winrates, which is what it almost was in TgT, which was one of the least fun metagames ever. EVERYONE whined and whined about jade druid, and i was one of the few people that was like "they need to nerf jade druid, but you can't nerf it without nerfing big/raza priest, quest mage, and evolve shaman, because everyone is just going to play priest right after the nerf" and they all laughed at me. Fast forward 3 weeks and the ladder is like 50% raza priest and it's LESS fun than when everyone was jade druid, because priest is the least fun class to face in hearthstone. Matches take forever, they immediately clear the board no matter what you do, then they look at your cards/strategy and kill you with your own cards. It's a miserable experience. Or they play big minion every turn and taunt up, which is even less fun to play against.
crystal core was so brutal because it was so uninteractive, not because of its strength (it had <50% wr if i recall). you had few choices but to try to push damage to face and hope they couldn't complete it and prep it out by t5. losing made you feel totally powerless. by comparison, evolve has so many counters, so many ways to play around it, and can still fall flat on its face even if they pull it off. i don't like playing it or against it because its boring and high rolly, but it's definitely not in need of any major nerfs.
whattt warlocks i seen run twisting nether. the ones that use medivh and twisting nether so u can get an 8 drop on a clear board. andi see dead mans hand warriors in the meta and most of them run brawl
Its just unfortunate that as a hunter I can’t clear 3 6mana minions with 10mana worth of spells, never mind on turn 5,6,or 7. I do get that control hunter isn’t a thing and I should be going lethal by that turn is I was playing a competitive deck. But I love the DK power. It so fun.
Dopplegangster into Evolve isnt broken. Its a feels bad combo, it feels awful when it happens, you have a massive board to deal with, and it feels like shit. There are dozens of things in HS that make people feel this way, on both personal and over-arching levels. Good example is a druid playing t1 flappy bird. How do you beat that? Well, you have a hand that can, or you lose. Thats a t1 combo that only happens when they go second, have at least 1 innervate, and the bird. Face that against a combo like Dopplegangster and Evolve, where they have 5-6 turns and a mulligan to draw into those cards, have to survive and stay ahead on board until that point, and must still have a hint of luck not to get some of those 6 mana 1/1's or 2/3's, and then you have a combo that can often be beaten by a blizzard or a doomsayer frost nova or equality consec or a twisting nether. Yes, it is a death sentence against midrange and a poorly drawn aggro deck, but that doesnt mean its broken. Its complex rock paper scissors. Its a feel bad combo, not a broken one, and while they SHOULD avoid feel bad combos, it wont get nerfed or ban hammered, because its only 3 cards that evolve and 1 below average card that enables it, as long as you're even on board, and if you're not, then their combo is either worse or exponentially better, respectively. TL:DR, its a feel bad combo that wont bet nerfed because at best its 2nd tier WITH the DK that relies on a small pool of enablers and payoffs
To whomever said evolve shaman didn't take off until KOFT, is clearly wrong. It was figured out about a month after Un'Goro released and the meta stabalized. Then it was put together and it was T1 for a long while.
Dopple/evolve isn't broken. Sure, sometimes high roll happens, which, sometimes you can't do anything about. If you control the early board, then by turn 6 their dopple/evolve won't matter much. If they even have it by then. Pretty sure I have almost never kept dopple/evolve in any of my mully hands. You literally have 3 cards to evolve that matter. The rest of the deck is token. AOE wipes are a thing. DF potion/flamestrike/sw:horror/(spreading plague is blizz's druid's ver of aoe), etc.
Also I have maybe played against one or two evolve shamans in the last 3-4 days (been playing at least 2-3hrs a day on ladder.) Been mostly running into tempo rogue, kazakus priest, secret mage, jades, and zoolock. You really think shaman is the problem here?
Skulking Geist is a card.
Doppelgangster evolve is hugely predictable... save removal for it or develop your own board and keep theirs clear.
Evolve Shaman is quite literally one of the easiest decks to beat as long as you don't get screwed by RNG. Keep their board clear until T6, then deal with 3 minions, 1 of which will usually be fairly weak. Half the time the Shaman will concede if you clear those minions.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/ricD5tiMM5mjwR6EcDQKpY
This is how you dismantle a Shaman ... never give them anything to work with.
EDIT** Here is a better example, since this topic is specifically about dopple>evolve. Same concept though ... keep the board clear, and deal with the evolve when it comes.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/sYiKJbTDJGqRrgKSUS4zz7
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
THANK YOU for finally pointing this out. Dopple + evolve, is one of the stupidest things in the game, and although it's not the most broken deck in the game, it's still extremely oppressive to shaman. I kid you not, i played over 400 games since frozen throne came out. I DID NOT GO AGAINST ONE SINGLE SHAMAN THAT WASN'T EVOLVE SHAMAN. NOT EVEN ON THE FIRST DAY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. That's how stupid this game is now. Until they nerf that or it rotates out, you will not see shaman do anything else. I tried playing other shaman decks, and you get annihilated by everything. You have no win condition vs big priest/raza priest, and jade druid, you don't have enough pressure against time warp mage, and you get out-tempoed by rogue, so you literally have to abuse the broken combo to win, and it's annoying and frustrating to play against, and when you play as it, it's completely uninteractive. Thank goodness they nerfed Hex though because big minion decks like big priest and big druid aren't strong enough.
This is the reason why the meta always gets worse after every patch: because the people on the forums all complain about 1 deck/class even though the top net decks are all oppressive. People think the game would be perfect if there was 1 deck for all 9 classes that had equal winrates, which is what it almost was in TgT, which was one of the least fun metagames ever. EVERYONE whined and whined about jade druid, and i was one of the few people that was like "they need to nerf jade druid, but you can't nerf it without nerfing big/raza priest, quest mage, and evolve shaman, because everyone is just going to play priest right after the nerf" and they all laughed at me. Fast forward 3 weeks and the ladder is like 50% raza priest and it's LESS fun than when everyone was jade druid, because priest is the least fun class to face in hearthstone. Matches take forever, they immediately clear the board no matter what you do, then they look at your cards/strategy and kill you with your own cards. It's a miserable experience. Or they play big minion every turn and taunt up, which is even less fun to play against.
crystal core was so brutal because it was so uninteractive, not because of its strength (it had <50% wr if i recall). you had few choices but to try to push damage to face and hope they couldn't complete it and prep it out by t5. losing made you feel totally powerless. by comparison, evolve has so many counters, so many ways to play around it, and can still fall flat on its face even if they pull it off. i don't like playing it or against it because its boring and high rolly, but it's definitely not in need of any major nerfs.
whattt warlocks i seen run twisting nether. the ones that use medivh and twisting nether so u can get an 8 drop on a clear board. andi see dead mans hand warriors in the meta and most of them run brawl
I can't take the OP seriously with the font he is using......